Very bad advice from Pets at Home

[Amy104]

Blame Beatrix Potter !!

I was going to say children's book, but couldn't remember if it was peter rabbit or brer rabbit :lol:

 

[zapwoo]

I agree that carrots should only be given in small quantities as treats and I don't give iceberg lettuce to my rabbits as it is nutritionally lacking and my family has a market garden so we have greengage year round which the bunnies prefer and is more nutritional (my dad gave them some and they ate it last out of the other offerings). and i totally agree that some pets shop staff need to be better educated but not all. but i wanted to clear a few myths up over iceberg lettuce because I found lots of people saying it bad but not why and even then it badly supported.

Iceberg lettuce can be good and bad for rabbits. threads like these have lots of speculation and this is my point of view on iceberg lettuce from what research I've gathered.

it can be good because:

it has a high water to calorie ratio, which makes it ideal for giving to dehydrated bunnies or over weight bunnies. It does give some nutrience to bunnies and can add forage to a bunnies diet.

it can be bad because:

it has a high water to calorie/nutrient ratio meaning bunnies with diets lacking fiber can often get soft poos. the water to calorie/nutrient ratio also makes it bad for under weight bunnies as they can fill up on lettace and then not want to other more nutritive foods.


the misconception:

the chemical compound often claimed to be harmful and deadly in iceberg and other edible lettuces is laudanum. but laudanum isn't actually present in edible lettuces. laudanum is present in opium poppies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaver_somniferum) which are related to lettuces and is where the association comes from. however this doesn't mean laudanum is present in lettuces where the idea somes from is the bitter latex type substance which comes from wild lettuces and early breds of iceberg lettuces and other edible lettuces this substance isn't laudanum rather lactucarian a common substitute for laudanum.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...r_esc=y#v=onepage&q=iceberg laudanum&f=false


even the rspca have fallen to this misconception

'Rabbits shouldn’t eat some lettuces (e.g. iceberg) as they contain laudanum which can be harmful in large quantities.'
The Rspca http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/rabbits/diet/myths

the disputable:

instead a compound called lactucin is present in edible lettuces such as Iceberg lettuce.

lactucin is a chemical component of Lactucarian.

lactucarian is a milky substance found in the stems and sometimes leaves of some types of lettuce mainly wild varieties of lettuce (e.g Lactuca virosa). lactucarian is the chemical which is a narcotic and an opiate which is also what makes rabbits sleepy. however it does not affect their digestive system. however lactucarian isn't present in many modern commercial lettuces because it has been bred out mainly as governments are keen on people making their own drugs from ingredient from Tesco's and because an overdose can cause death by cardiac paralysis.

info on lactucarian and wild lettuce : http://archive.today/2uKey
lactucarian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactucarium
lactucin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactucin

lactucin however is highly likely to be present in Iceberg lettuces. however some people claim that lactucin turns into lactucarian in rabbits stomachs which hasn't been proven or disproven.

however yes this might worry you that there's this lactone in lettuce which means that by no way can it be given to rabbits, your wrong for worrying. spinach is commonly listed as suitable for rabbits but it too contains lactucin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene_lactone
also spinach has a high nutrient to water ratio so logically it would contain more lactucin ( don't quote me on that). but it doesn't mean its not suitable to give to your rabbits.

Yes it is all very confusing and i've tried to use quotes as much as possible etc. but really I wanted to highlight how little we know about our own food and our bunnies. inconclusion Iceberg lettuce isn't the devil it's not going to kill your rabbit anymore than other leafy green unless you feed it in high quantities on a fibre and nutrient lacking diet.

I'm not saying we should recommend feeding rabbits Iceberg lettuce but for some rabbits it's the only foliage they get instead we need to educate people more or why it shouldn't be fed and why other alternatives are better. i think the fruity rings mentioned previously are worse for the rabbits than the lettuce. i think also we should explain why certain foods aren't suitable rather than just giving a list of what to give and not give because do you actually know who wrote that list and how they came to the conclucion that that was alright to give to rabbits.

sorry this was a little long and ranty

 

[tulsi]

I agree that carrots should only be given in small quantities as treats and I don't give iceberg lettuce to my rabbits as it is nutritionally lacking and my family has a market garden so we have greengage year round which the bunnies prefer and is more nutritional (my dad gave them some and they ate it last out of the other offerings). and i totally agree that some pets shop staff need to be better educated but not all. but i wanted to clear a few myths up over iceberg lettuce because I found lots of people saying it bad but not why and even then it badly supported.

Iceberg lettuce can be good and bad for rabbits. threads like these have lots of speculation and this is my point of view on iceberg lettuce from what research I've gathered.

it can be good because:

it has a high water to calorie ratio, which makes it ideal for giving to dehydrated bunnies or over weight bunnies. It does give some nutrience to bunnies and can add forage to a bunnies diet.

it can be bad because:

it has a high water to calorie/nutrient ratio meaning bunnies with diets lacking fiber can often get soft poos. the water to calorie/nutrient ratio also makes it bad for under weight bunnies as they can fill up on lettace and then not want to other more nutritive foods.


the misconception:

the chemical compound often claimed to be harmful and deadly in iceberg and other edible lettuces is laudanum. but laudanum isn't actually present in edible lettuces. laudanum is present in opium poppies (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papaver_somniferum) which are related to lettuces and is where the association comes from. however this doesn't mean laudanum is present in lettuces where the idea somes from is the bitter latex type substance which comes from wild lettuces and early breds of iceberg lettuces and other edible lettuces this substance isn't laudanum rather lactucarian a common substitute for laudanum.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...r_esc=y#v=onepage&q=iceberg laudanum&f=false


even the rspca have fallen to this misconception

'Rabbits shouldn’t eat some lettuces (e.g. iceberg) as they contain laudanum which can be harmful in large quantities.'
The Rspca http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/rabbits/diet/myths

the disputable:

instead a compound called lactucin is present in edible lettuces such as Iceberg lettuce.

lactucin is a chemical component of Lactucarian.

lactucarian is a milky substance found in the stems and sometimes leaves of some types of lettuce mainly wild varieties of lettuce (e.g Lactuca virosa). lactucarian is the chemical which is a narcotic and an opiate which is also what makes rabbits sleepy. however it does not affect their digestive system. however lactucarian isn't present in many modern commercial lettuces because it has been bred out mainly as governments are keen on people making their own drugs from ingredient from Tesco's and because an overdose can cause death by cardiac paralysis.

info on lactucarian and wild lettuce : http://archive.today/2uKey
lactucarian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactucarium
lactucin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactucin

lactucin however is highly likely to be present in Iceberg lettuces. however some people claim that lactucin turns into lactucarian in rabbits stomachs which hasn't been proven or disproven.

however yes this might worry you that there's this lactone in lettuce which means that by no way can it be given to rabbits, your wrong for worrying. spinach is commonly listed as suitable for rabbits but it too contains lactucin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquiterpene_lactone
also spinach has a high nutrient to water ratio so logically it would contain more lactucin ( don't quote me on that). but it doesn't mean its not suitable to give to your rabbits.

Yes it is all very confusing and i've tried to use quotes as much as possible etc. but really I wanted to highlight how little we know about our own food and our bunnies. inconclusion Iceberg lettuce isn't the devil it's not going to kill your rabbit anymore than other leafy green unless you feed it in high quantities on a fibre and nutrient lacking diet.

I'm not saying we should recommend feeding rabbits Iceberg lettuce but for some rabbits it's the only foliage they get instead we need to educate people more or why it shouldn't be fed and why other alternatives are better. i think the fruity rings mentioned previously are worse for the rabbits than the lettuce. i think also we should explain why certain foods aren't suitable rather than just giving a list of what to give and not give because do you actually know who wrote that list and how they came to the conclucion that that was alright to give to rabbits.

sorry this was a little long and ranty

Great post. Thankyou.