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URGENT head tilt U/D pic p65
- Thread starter Starlight
- Start date
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
Cant have Metacam now as has had Cortisone. Would need to wait a few days I think.
I dont know when the abx could safely be changed, as Marie said in the previous thread the pharmacokinetics of Convenia are not really known for Rabbits.
It's not the same Vet that nearly killed the Rex Doe with oral Antirobe I hope................
If so then I am afraid I would not trust him as far as I can spit. Especially with the prescribing of off licence high risk antibiotics.
Starlight
Warren Veteran
No, it is a different veterinary surgeon.
Will pm Marie and ask if she could look at the thread and suggest something.
abbymarysmokey
Wise Old Thumper
With regards housing...I found by far the best housing was an indoor cage lined with a large piece of vet bed. The vet bed needs to be large enough to cover the floor and go a way up the sides of the cage too so he doesn't hurt himself when he rolls.
Sending lots of healing vibes xxxxxxx
Sorry I didn't realise you already had a steriod injection. Thank heavens for all the knowledgable RU'ers
. Like I said before I would always double check with your vet for meds. I hope you have a good one and not the one that Jane is talking about!
Sorry I didn't realise you already had a steriod injection. Thank heavens for all the knowledgable RU'ers
. Like I said before I would always double check with your vet for meds. I hope you have a good one and not the one that Jane is talking about!
crazy daisy
Warren Scout
Sending vibes for Victor xxx
parsnipbun
Wise Old Thumper
Personally I would also stay clear of Convenia and switch from steroids asap - steroids really are a last ditch in rabbits and can cause a lot of problems with lowered immune systems.
Steroids are, I suspect, a rather old fashioned response.
Its such a shame you are not near a really good vet.
Steroids are, I suspect, a rather old fashioned response.
Its such a shame you are not near a really good vet.
I'd just like to say, that even though you all clearly think it was the wrong thing to mention Convenia, and I will learn from that, but that it made a massive difference to both Tilly and Rosie, and I wouldn't change the fact we used it with them, because we got them both upright. Yes, risky, but out of the options available, that was the only viable option for us. That's why I mentioned it.
That all said, thank you for not jumping on me, just for stating your own opinions
That all said, thank you for not jumping on me, just for stating your own opinions
VikkiVet
Mama Doe
Hope Victor is feeling better soon.
Only to add my 2p's worth - I agree Convenia has risks/unknowns with regard to pharmacokinetics but as Sky-O said they have been used to great effect so shouldn't be automatically ruled out, rather carefully considered and their effects closely monitored and planned for.
From what I understand, steroids are often used because their anti-inflammatory effects are far more potent, even if the duration of effect is longer. In an E.C. bun it is partly the immune system that is causing the damage so a temporary depression in immune function actually isn't such a bad idea, as long as gut function and good hygiene practices are maintained.
In terms of pain relief, although metacam is commonly used and relatively safe in the short term, it doesn't really touch significant pain so wouldn't be my drug of choice for animals in a lot of acute pain
Only to add my 2p's worth - I agree Convenia has risks/unknowns with regard to pharmacokinetics but as Sky-O said they have been used to great effect so shouldn't be automatically ruled out, rather carefully considered and their effects closely monitored and planned for.
From what I understand, steroids are often used because their anti-inflammatory effects are far more potent, even if the duration of effect is longer. In an E.C. bun it is partly the immune system that is causing the damage so a temporary depression in immune function actually isn't such a bad idea, as long as gut function and good hygiene practices are maintained.
In terms of pain relief, although metacam is commonly used and relatively safe in the short term, it doesn't really touch significant pain so wouldn't be my drug of choice for animals in a lot of acute pain
marie_kubiak
Alpha Buck
Hi,
the problem with convenia is not necessarily safety (although as a cephalosporin it can cause dysbiosis and can only be given by injection) but efficacy. It has now been shown to only be at effective levels for 12hrs after injection in the rabbit. If given intermittently then there is very little time that it is having any effect and risk of developing resistance is very high. If being used it should be injected twice daily to be effective (however safety of this is not yet established so I remain wary of it).
Steroid use for EC is less clearly defined. Many vets use them to reduce inflammation but there is an argument that because EC is infectious steroids actually reduce the body's defences against it. Metacam is less 'potent' at suppressing the immune system and I prefer to use this. You cannot use both meds at the same time though before any changes you would need to speak to your vet and find out how long-acting the steroid injection given is.
Did they do any diagnostics to find out what the underlying problem is?
Marie
the problem with convenia is not necessarily safety (although as a cephalosporin it can cause dysbiosis and can only be given by injection) but efficacy. It has now been shown to only be at effective levels for 12hrs after injection in the rabbit. If given intermittently then there is very little time that it is having any effect and risk of developing resistance is very high. If being used it should be injected twice daily to be effective (however safety of this is not yet established so I remain wary of it).
Steroid use for EC is less clearly defined. Many vets use them to reduce inflammation but there is an argument that because EC is infectious steroids actually reduce the body's defences against it. Metacam is less 'potent' at suppressing the immune system and I prefer to use this. You cannot use both meds at the same time though before any changes you would need to speak to your vet and find out how long-acting the steroid injection given is.
Did they do any diagnostics to find out what the underlying problem is?
Marie
Jack's-Jane
Wise Old Thumper
abbymarysmokey
Wise Old Thumper
So sorry to hear the news Kris. The only thing you can do is to create him a 'padded cell' type housing set-up...so he can't hurt himself when he rolls.
Often head tilt buns get worse before they get better. The good news is that I've read that slow-onset tilt like this is more likely better than sudden onset, and my own experience with tilted buns supports this.
I know I sound like a broken record, but zithromax really did save Dominic's life when he had head tilt caused by a middle ear infection.
Also, I can't remember if you're using an anti-sickness drug like Stemetil?
Often head tilt buns get worse before they get better. The good news is that I've read that slow-onset tilt like this is more likely better than sudden onset, and my own experience with tilted buns supports this.
I know I sound like a broken record, but zithromax really did save Dominic's life when he had head tilt caused by a middle ear infection.
Also, I can't remember if you're using an anti-sickness drug like Stemetil?
Kermit
Wise Old Thumper
Yip, my Kermit was awful, he couldnt even stand up, his head was mega tilted and he had nystygmus very bad.
You just need to get bun in a safe enclosure with rolled up towels at the side. You will probably have to offer bun the food and water, as they probably wont get to it themselves. I also used to site Kermit in his litter tray every so often so that he could pee in there if he was ready.
And, i agree with abbymarysmokey, it often gets worse before better. Often one step forwards and a million steps back, but if bun is eating and drinking, pooing and peeing then often they eventually get through this, sometimes witha residual head tilt like my Kermits.
You just need to get bun in a safe enclosure with rolled up towels at the side. You will probably have to offer bun the food and water, as they probably wont get to it themselves. I also used to site Kermit in his litter tray every so often so that he could pee in there if he was ready.
And, i agree with abbymarysmokey, it often gets worse before better. Often one step forwards and a million steps back, but if bun is eating and drinking, pooing and peeing then often they eventually get through this, sometimes witha residual head tilt like my Kermits.
