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Rosie - baytril and reduced appetite and diarrhea

nickybunny1

Mama Doe
Rosie has been put on a 3 week course of Baytril for a suspected upper respiratory infection which we think is responsible for her snoring. She already did a one week course and seemed ok on it. Today and yesterday about an hour after her meds she wouldn't eat anything . She did eat her breakfast pellets. She has suddenly developed an interest in eatting cardboard at the moment which I take away from her for fear of blockage. Dunno if that is a sign of anything. She had come round by evening and earlier she was eatting a few protexin probiotics pellets but not much more. Snoring still the same so far or maybe tiny bit better hard to say. I noticed she has also had a bit of diarrhoea too. I am really stressing out over what to do for the best. How do I know the difference between snoring and a breathing issue ? Vet said snoring can come with age too. What if I am messing her up giving her antibiotics when it is just snoring. I have recorded her snoring on my phone . If anyone would be kind enough to pm me with their email address I would be very grateful to forward it to them for second opinion.
 
I am sorry to hear that Rosie is still having problems. I dont think that listening to a recording of her snoring will be of much help as without being able to listen to different parts of her respiratory tract with a stethoscope it is not really possible to say if it is 'just snoring'.

Is it true diarrhoea she is passing or unformed cecotrophs ? A sudden craving for cardboard can occur if there is some dysbiosis in the cecum. This can occur with antibiotics, although it is unusual for Baytril to cause problems.

Is she eating hay ? That would be the best thing for her GI tract at the moment. Is she passing any normal fecal poo ?
 
Rosie has been put on a 3 week course of Baytril for a suspected upper respiratory infection which we think is responsible for her snoring. She already did a one week course and seemed ok on it. Today and yesterday about an hour after her meds she wouldn't eat anything . She did eat her breakfast pellets. She has suddenly developed an interest in eatting cardboard at the moment which I take away from her for fear of blockage. Dunno if that is a sign of anything. She had come round by evening and earlier she was eatting a few protexin probiotics pellets but not much more. Snoring still the same so far or maybe tiny bit better hard to say. I noticed she has also had a bit of diarrhoea too. I am really stressing out over what to do for the best. How do I know the difference between snoring and a breathing issue ? Vet said snoring can come with age too. What if I am messing her up giving her antibiotics when it is just snoring. I have recorded her snoring on my phone . If anyone would be kind enough to pm me with their email address I would be very grateful to forward it to them for second opinion.

Nicky I'm so sorry you're stressed out. I really really don't think you are messing her up by giving antibiotics :wave:

It could well be the baytril that's causing the change in poo. I've known that before. Could you get hold of some fibreplex? You probably know all about it, but it may help given that she's on a long course of antibiotics. My vet (Christabel from Twickenham Vets) recommended Fibreplex to me, as the additional fibre will help settle a stomach that is perhaps ruffled due to a long course of antibiotics. It's also very palatable to most bunnies :D Also, perhaps add in some additional fibre in the way of readigrass or some other forage/ hay that she will like. It will take her interest away from the cardboard.

Regarding the snoring - I wondered about listening to it, but the problem is, it would be difficult to determine how loud it actually is. I have a snoring bun who has episodes of snuffling. He sometimes wakes himself up by snoring. If Rosie is even a bit better, then I should steel yourself and continue with the Baytril. If you feel there isn't sufficient improvement and are still worried, talk to the vet about maybe changing the antibiotic (I had my little one on Septrin recently) or adding in an injectable (duplocillin).

I really feel for you, I hope you can get a little peace over this for the weekend at least xx
 
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Hi Jane. Yes i guess u r right the recording is just a sound it's the chest noise which is important. When she first went to vet she said very slight rattle in upper area and everything else was ok. And she said only to give baytril if i say runny nose or sneezing It was me who said i wanted to try baytril as I feared it was something more and the vet said ok. Yes i think it was diarrhoea not severe but a thickish wee pool. She has been passing other poos but they r a little softer. This morning after meds her stomach was gurgling sooo much too and still is now a wee bit. She has just eaten a few pellets now and has perked up a bit too. She has been eatting hay. Last I saw her eatting hay was last night. Have just given her a wee handful as she is in the spare room with us and she is eatting it. She always has access to hay. Oh she has just done a few poops but they r quite small and dry. Feels like i am describing one thing and then the opposite happens. Why is the baytril messing her up this time and not last time ??!! Seems the baytril is making her iffy most of the day. It was just one diarrhea episode. Do I stop the baytril ?? Jane i sooo don't know what to do. I don't want to get it wrong like my Lance. What if it is just snoring and i put her under for xray and something happens and it was just snoring .
 
Hi Jane. Yes i guess u r right the recording is just a sound it's the chest noise which is important. When she first went to vet she said very slight rattle in upper area and everything else was ok. And she said only to give baytril if i say runny nose or sneezing It was me who said i wanted to try baytril as I feared it was something more and the vet said ok. Yes i think it was diarrhoea not severe but a thickish wee pool. She has been passing other poos but they r a little softer. This morning after meds her stomach was gurgling sooo much too and still is now a wee bit. She has just eaten a few pellets now and has perked up a bit too. She has been eatting hay. Last I saw her eatting hay was last night. Have just given her a wee handful as she is in the spare room with us and she is eatting it. She always has access to hay. Oh she has just done a few poops but they r quite small and dry. Feels like i am describing one thing and then the opposite happens. Why is the baytril messing her up this time and not last time ??!! Seems the baytril is making her iffy most of the day. It was just one diarrhea episode. Do I stop the baytril ?? Jane i sooo don't know what to do. I don't want to get it wrong like my Lance. What if it is just snoring and i put her under for xray and something happens and it was just snoring .

I completely understand how anxious you are and that you only want to do what is best for Rosie. Just as you always did your best to try to help Lance. You could give the Vet a call and explain about the fact that you feel the Baytril may be causing some gut problems this time. Whilst unusual, as I mentioned before, it can happen. Even if previous courses have not caused problems. The Vet may suggest stopping the Baytril and adopting a 'wait and see' approach with regards to Rosie's symptoms.

There are a few other things you could talk with the Vet about. First of all I am sure he/she knows how anxious you are about Rosie and that you do not want to subject her to diagnostics under sedation if they are not 100% necessary. I would feel exactly the same. So I am sure the Vet will be happy to continue to listen and to offer advice.

The snoring may be totally 'benign'. I have a Rabbit, Bobbie, who snores a lot and VERY loudly. We know hers is due to a life long history of Respiratory Tract infections. She was rescued from a Meat Farm along with her four 3 week old kits. Bobbie had severe pneumonia and she was also pregnant again :cry: Over her almost 9 years here she has had quite a few flare ups of infection and consequently this has led to a lot of scaring in her respiratory tract and in turn this leads to snoring. She snores even when she is 'well'. I do not count the snoring as a sign of illness for her.

Of course there are conditions that can cause snoring. I think Rosie has an increased respiratory effort too doesn't she ? Has this improved at all on Baytril ? You could ask the Vet if a full blood profile may be useful. This could show up evidence of active infection. A blood test can be done without the need of sedation. Also, weighing Rosie every couple of days would be a good idea. Unexplained weightloss that continues over 3 consecutive weigh-ins may be cause for concern and may indicate a problem going on.

Can you get hold of some Bramble leaves for Rosie- eg blackberry leaves. Fresh or dried. Fresh would be better though. These can help settle a GI tract upset.Encouraging her to have a really good hay intake will help too. The more hay she eats the better. I would not bother with giving any probiotics such as Fibreplex. Many exotics Vets feel they are unlikely to be of any benefit as probiotics are killed by the highly acid stomach before they can reach the cecum. However, a PREbiotic works in a different way, it is not killed by digestive enzymes. Prebiotics can increase the production of 'good' gut bacteria and also aid the metabolism of ingested nutrients. Mark Rowland, an excellent Exotics Vet, advised me to use Avipro Plus prebiotic. Fibreplex does have a prebiotic too, but it is a lot more expensive to use long term as a syringe of it only lasts about 5 days !! Avipro Plus is much more economical

http://www.viovet.co.uk/Vetark_Avip...b7A0Dc0kbHBF6wh9_OiJY-z0tYzV5d8YvQBoCoeLw_wcB

Not sure if you can obtain it over there ?

How is Rosie doing this morning ?
 
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Thanks Jane and mighty max for ur advice. Rosie is in good form today so far and ran out to get her breakfast pellets and was outside in the garden too. I noticed though that her poops were very small though from overnight and when I put her cardboard castle that she rests on back in the kitchen she went straight to nibble it so took it out again and placed some fresh green Timothy hay under her nose and she ate some of that. Yes she did have mild laboured breathing. I "think" the baytril has improved both snoring and breathing but only by a tiny amount. I know it defo perked her up first time around. I have decided I am not going to give her baytril today as I am afraid the small poos will end up with her in stasis and make her stop eating. Also afraid of the stomach gurgling and the diarheea. I will ring the vet tomorrow and will ask to try septorin and the bisovlon. It would all be a lot easier if the vet was close to me and not 90mins drive away. Mightymax I have fibreplex and I can't get her to eat it. Jane I saw that avipro stuff at the vets on a shelf one time so will defo get that. That's a good idea too about the bloods to show infection without sedation. I willl ask vet about this too.

Aw little bobby what a lucky girl. The words rabbit and meat farm togehter how horrifying. Glad she is with u now Jane and saved her and her babies. I understand how she is a snorer from her repeated infections . Hopefully that's all Rosie's will be too.

Thanks both of u for ur Advice and reassurance. X
 
Forgot to add. Rosie's snoring mainly occurs when she is lying flat with legs out the back. If she is resting clouded up as I call it with all legs hidden underneath then she doesn't snore. Maybe lying down is compressing her airway?? Anyway, just thought I would add this.
 
Forgot to add. Rosie's snoring mainly occurs when she is lying flat with legs out the back. If she is resting clouded up as I call it with all legs hidden underneath then she doesn't snore. Maybe lying down is compressing her airway?? Anyway, just thought I would add this.

It may be the fact that her chest cavity is more compressed when she is lying flat out. As you have mentioned that her symptoms appeared to improve during the last course of Baytril that may indicate that infection is present. At the moment my Vet prefers Septrin over Baytril as a starting point when treating RTIs, she says she has found it to be more effective. One thing is for sure it tastes a lot better that Baytril !

I am glad to hear that she appears to be feeling well within herself and I hope that the Vet will be able to help tomorrow. It must add to your stress having to travel so far to get to the Vet. I know I moan a lot about living in SW London, but at least everything is reasonably nearby for me here. Mind you, my Vet still pops over here so I am doubly lucky !!

Please let us know how you get on tomorrow xx
 
Thanks Jane and mighty max for ur advice. Rosie is in good form today so far and ran out to get her breakfast pellets and was outside in the garden too. I noticed though that her poops were very small though from overnight and when I put her cardboard castle that she rests on back in the kitchen she went straight to nibble it so took it out again and placed some fresh green Timothy hay under her nose and she ate some of that. Yes she did have mild laboured breathing. I "think" the baytril has improved both snoring and breathing but only by a tiny amount. I know it defo perked her up first time around. I have decided I am not going to give her baytril today as I am afraid the small poos will end up with her in stasis and make her stop eating. Also afraid of the stomach gurgling and the diarheea. I will ring the vet tomorrow and will ask to try septorin and the bisovlon. It would all be a lot easier if the vet was close to me and not 90mins drive away. Mightymax I have fibreplex and I can't get her to eat it. Jane I saw that avipro stuff at the vets on a shelf one time so will defo get that. That's a good idea too about the bloods to show infection without sedation. I willl ask vet about this too.

Aw little bobby what a lucky girl. The words rabbit and meat farm togehter how horrifying. Glad she is with u now Jane and saved her and her babies. I understand how she is a snorer from her repeated infections . Hopefully that's all Rosie's will be too.

Thanks both of u for ur Advice and reassurance. X

Aaaww you're so welcome! I'm glad to hear a good report. Sorry she won't eat the fibreplex - can you flavour it with a bit of banana baby food, or is she one of the rare breed of buns that doesn't like banana? https://shop.ellaskitchen.co.uk/products/bananas-bananas-bananas

I'm sorry your vet is so far away. That's a long journey for you and the buns. It probably wouldn't help Rosie's breathing to get stressed by a car journey, so I think you're doing the right thing, leaving off the Baytril until you have more advice.

You could have the vet run a blood test, obviously it's a vet visit. Bear in mind though that not all infection will show up on a blood test, so it isn't conclusive. You could discuss this when you ring the vet to ask about adding/changing antibiotics.

One thing's for sure, you love that little girl and you are doing everything you can to make her life better. :D
 
Ok so spoke to vet this morning. She doesn't work Mondays. She is going to see if she can get zirthromax for me to to try and the bisolvon. I then Googled zirthromax and seen a few people said it was very sore on their buns stomachs and they wouldn't use again. So I panicked and rang back spoke to nurse to say to pass message to say to check out septrin also . She is gonna hate me. Jane / Mighty Max either of u any experience with zirthromax? ? She did mention trying injectable anti biotic too in passing but was checking the zirthromax first. Thing is I need to start Rosie on something today as her breathing has gotten a bit worse and i hear iwhen she is eatting too. Vet is ringing me back in a couple of hours. My vet is soo good and hasn't led me wrong yet. She did say she wanted to try zirthromax due to Rosies absess history. So what would u go for zirthromax or septrin or an injectable ??
 
So vet doesn't have zirthromax but does have septrin ! So have to drive down to get it so i can start this evening. Also got bisolvon and the avipro prebiotic. So that's a good bundle of stuff. She is going to order in the zirthromax and that will take a week just incase we have to try that next. I feel so much better that I have a plan in place.Hope is works for the Rosetta! ! Jane and Mighty Max thanks again for ur support. Respiratory problems r new territory for me soo ur advice has been invaluable x x
 
So vet doesn't have zirthromax but does have septrin ! So have to drive down to get it so i can start this evening. Also got bisolvon and the avipro prebiotic. So that's a good bundle of stuff. She is going to order in the zirthromax and that will take a week just incase we have to try that next. I feel so much better that I have a plan in place.Hope is works for the Rosetta! ! Jane and Mighty Max thanks again for ur support. Respiratory problems r new territory for me soo ur advice has been invaluable x x

I would prefer to try Septrin before Zithromax. Hopefully it will help Rosie. Has her tummy settled down now ?
 
Hi Jane! Yes her tummy has settled down thankfully. Yes i would prefer to try septrin first too. Like u said at least it will taste better! Hope Rosie likes it! I have a good feeling about septrin. How long a course do u think it should be for ?? Can both the avipro and bisolvon be given by syringe too if mixed with water ??
 
Hi Jane! Yes her tummy has settled down thankfully. Yes i would prefer to try septrin first too. Like u said at least it will taste better! Hope Rosie likes it! I have a good feeling about septrin. How long a course do u think it should be for ?? Can both the avipro and bisolvon be given by syringe too if mixed with water ??

My Vet usually prescribes a course of 14 days Septrin for RTIs. She reviews/re-examines the Rabbit after 7 days to make sure things are improving. The course needs to continue for a good few days AFTER clinical symptoms resolve. So it may be that the course runs on for about 3 weeks.

Avipro can be given in water or on food. My Rabbit who is on it longterm has his in Peppermint Tea !

Bisolvon can be sprinkled on food. It is almost tasteless so easy to disguise and you only need to give a tiny pinch of it.
 
So vet doesn't have zirthromax but does have septrin ! So have to drive down to get it so i can start this evening. Also got bisolvon and the avipro prebiotic. So that's a good bundle of stuff. She is going to order in the zirthromax and that will take a week just incase we have to try that next. I feel so much better that I have a plan in place.Hope is works for the Rosetta! ! Jane and Mighty Max thanks again for ur support. Respiratory problems r new territory for me soo ur advice has been invaluable x x

I would much prefer it if my bun had Septrin first, as there have been documented adverse reactions with Zithromax. That said, it's useful when it's needed, as all abx are. You may find some useful info about it here:

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...tailor-off-or-just-stop&p=6506566#post6506566

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/s...-s-been-hospitlised-today&highlight=zithromax

I am glad you've got the Bisolven. I've used it often, and you just sprinkle it onto food, and I believe it's virtually tasteless, so one of the easier medications to get down!

Regarding the Septrin, my vet (Twickenham Vets) usually prescribes an 8 day course for respiratory infections. However, your vet may want to keep the abx going for longer than this, which I think would be very wise in the circumstances.

Good luck Nicky x
 
So home now and Rosie has had both septrin and bisovlon - I put the bisovlon on a bit of banana and she ate it without suspecting !! I let the vet listen to Rosie " snoring" which I had recorded on my phone. She said it was a very strange sound and couldn't believe how loud it was. This has got me very worried . Since I came home the snoring noise is even there at times when she is awake but sitting. But it isn't there all the time. It has defo got worse. But again she is still well within herself and is in the garden right now eatting grass. How long should i give the septrin and bisovlon to work before I should consider X-ray ? How soon should I expect to see an improvement ?? How would I know if it wasn't something like pneumonia?? Am going to put the avipro in their water now as she said it was safe for all of them.
 
Forgot to add she gave me 16 days worth of septrin. Flip Jane hope it's enough as I see u said u need around 3 weeks but I guess Mighty max it's more than ur vet so hopefully In between will see a good improvement.
 
Just checked on her in the garden and she is fully awake and that noise is there and she is sitting upright - and breathing a bit more laboured than before but still happy and running about. ????
 
Just checked on her in the garden and she is fully awake and that noise is there and she is sitting upright - and breathing a bit more laboured than before but still happy and running about. ????

Perhaps let the Vet know in the morning ? That is what I would do. At least Rosie still seems to be feeling OK within herself xx
 
Forgot to add she gave me 16 days worth of septrin. Flip Jane hope it's enough as I see u said u need around 3 weeks but I guess Mighty max it's more than ur vet so hopefully In between will see a good improvement.

I think 16 days is a good length, but of course if you feel she has improved but the problem is still there, the vet can discuss continuing the Septrin or adding another abx in there. There is a lot of choice of possible abx - for example long acting Tetracycline antibiotic injection or a course of Penicillin Injections.

Have a look here: http://www.rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html

I hope Rosie remains well within herself. Did you manage to find any echinacea? When my rabbits have been snuffly, and course after course of antibiotics have proved ineffective, I've found boosting the immune system can sometimes overcome the problem by itself. (Consult with your vet first!)
 
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