rabbit's health

[marab]

Hello

My rabbit is 9 years old and so suddenly he can not walk. she tries to walk and she turns over. This weakness focuses on the back feet. After the x-ray she did the veterinarian gave us the antibiotic quinolone
What do you believe she has? The vet told us that he has kidney failure but it is questionable. I read on the internet that antibiotic quinolone is toxic for rabbits' health. is that true?

Thank you
xray:
https://i.ibb.co/pRpxRp5/2.jpg

 

[Shimmer]

In the UK, the symptoms of sudden hind leg weakness would be indicative of the parasite EC, although other causes (such as injury) would also need to be investigated - which is presumably what the vet was checking for.

Kidney function would need a blood test to confirm - did you have that done? What evidence is there for this diagnosis?

Is your rabbit still eating, drinking, weeing and pooing as normal? You may need to syringe feed if they are unable to eat for themselves.

I hope he recovers with appropriate care. Take care.

 

[joey&boo]

Hello Marab,

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear of your rabbits problems. I'm no expert, have some experience of this, but here are my thoughts

Did your vet explain why they are giving your bunny antibiotics? I wouldn't expect antibiotics to be used unless she suspects something other than kidney failure? I dont think the antibiotic choice itself is risky. See the table in the link below
https://rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html
I have had antibiotics prescribed to a renally compromised bunny though & it made him really unwell so its something I'm personally wary of, unless there was a really good reason.

If his kidney function is poor this would be picked up on blood tests. I think it'd be useful to look at more diagnostics or explore more> E. Cunniculi can cause hind limb weakness & is often linked to kidney function

 

[marab]

In the UK, the symptoms of sudden hind leg weakness would be indicative of the parasite EC, although other causes (such as injury) would also need to be investigated - which is presumably what the vet was checking for.

Kidney function would need a blood test to confirm - did you have that done? What evidence is there for this diagnosis?

Is your rabbit still eating, drinking, weeing and pooing as normal? You may need to syringe feed if they are unable to eat for themselves.

I hope he recovers with appropriate care. Take care.

Hello Marab,

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear of your rabbits problems. I'm no expert, have some experience of this, but here are my thoughts

Did your vet explain why they are giving your bunny antibiotics? I wouldn't expect antibiotics to be used unless she suspects something other than kidney failure? I dont think the antibiotic choice itself is risky. See the table in the link below
https://rabbit.org/health/antibiotics.html
I have had antibiotics prescribed to a renally compromised bunny though & it made him really unwell so its something I'm personally wary of, unless there was a really good reason.

If his kidney function is poor this would be picked up on blood tests. I think it'd be useful to look at more diagnostics or explore more> E. Cunniculi can cause hind limb weakness & is often linked to kidney function

Thank you both for your reply!
I live in Cyprus but It’s probably that parasite.
No, the vet didn’t do blood test analysis. She said that from observing the xray and that can see that their kidney is large.
My rabbit eats, drink less with help, wee and poo much less. She lost her appetite.
I can’t find the quinolone in that antibiotics list. Is it a safe antibiotic?
I read a lot bad side effects on humans. I tried to find information related with quinolone on rabbits but I couldn’t. Does it treat that parasite? Vet said to give it to my rabbit for five days.

 

[joey&boo]

Thank you both for your reply!
I live in Cyprus but It’s probably that parasite.
No, the vet didn’t do blood test analysis. She said that from observing the xray and that can see that one kidney is larger than other.
My rabbit eats, drink less with help, wee and poo much less. She lost her appetite.
I can’t find the quinolone in that antibiotics list. Is it a safe antibiotic?
I read a lot bad side effects on humans. I tried to find information related with quinolone on rabbits but I couldn’t. Does it treat that parasite? Vet said to give it to my rabbit for five days.

The parasite is treated with rabbit panacur (Fenbendazole).

I'd like someone else to look at this (hint to the health knowledgeable members of the forum)but I googled antibiotic quinolone to look at alternative names, one of them is ciproflaxin - if its pretty much the same is on Frances Hrcourt-Brown's list on the first link & this article suggests its good for things such as urinary infections in rabbits

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10829566/#:~:text=In%20healthy%20rabbits%20and%20in,orally%20for%20successive%205%20days.&text=The%20high%20Ciprofloxacin%20tissue%20concentrations,urinary%20and%20respiratory%20tract%20infections.

the issue for me would be does your vet think your rabbit has an infection. Antiobiotics wouldn't touch E. cunniculi.

If you rabbit is sadly in kidney failure he may benefit from supportive care. My boy used to be syringe fed several times a day. The fluids in syringe feeds are useful to flush toxins & often encourage natural appetite. I also fed lots of safe wild plants, herbs & grass (he wouldn't touch hay). Its not unusual for bunnies with kidney problems to favour wet food. Some vets prescribe steroids although mine never did.

 

[marab]

The parasite is treated with rabbit panacur (Fenbendazole).

I'd like someone else to look at this (hint to the health knowledgeable members of the forum)but I googled antibiotic quinolone to look at alternative names, one of them is ciproflaxin - if its pretty much the same is on Frances Hrcourt-Brown's list on the first link & this article suggests its good for things such as urinary infections in rabbits

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10829566/#:~:text=In%20healthy%20rabbits%20and%20in,orally%20for%20successive%205%20days.&text=The%20high%20Ciprofloxacin%20tissue%20concentrations,urinary%20and%20respiratory%20tract%20infections.

the issue for me would be does your vet think your rabbit has an infection. Antiobiotics wouldn't touch E. cunniculi.

If you rabbit is sadly in kidney failure he may benefit from supportive care. My boy used to be syringe fed several times a day. The fluids in syringe feeds are useful to flush toxins & often encourage natural appetite. I also fed lots of safe wild plants, herbs & grass (he wouldn't touch hay). Its not unusual for bunnies with kidney problems to favour wet food. Some vets prescribe steroids although mine never did.

thank you for your reply!
does urinary infections and kidney problems can cause movement problems?
she can not walk. she tries to walk and she turns over. This weakness focuses on the back feet.

 

[bunny momma]

Your vet may suspect kidney infection which can be painful, so ask your vet about appropriate pain relief and anti-inflammatory.
Fluid therapy may help your bunny flush toxins and improve bunny's quality of life. Joey &Boo mentioned syringe feeds , I also use sub q fluids which I obtain from vets for bunnies who are ill.
Sending positive vibes.

 

[marab]

The parasite is treated with rabbit panacur (Fenbendazole).

I'd like someone else to look at this (hint to the health knowledgeable members of the forum)but I googled antibiotic quinolone to look at alternative names, one of them is ciproflaxin - if its pretty much the same is on Frances Hrcourt-Brown's list on the first link & this article suggests its good for things such as urinary infections in rabbits

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10829566/#:~:text=In%20healthy%20rabbits%20and%20in,orally%20for%20successive%205%20days.&text=The%20high%20Ciprofloxacin%20tissue%20concentrations,urinary%20and%20respiratory%20tract%20infections.

the issue for me would be does your vet think your rabbit has an infection. Antiobiotics wouldn't touch E. cunniculi.

If you rabbit is sadly in kidney failure he may benefit from supportive care. My boy used to be syringe fed several times a day. The fluids in syringe feeds are useful to flush toxins & often encourage natural appetite. I also fed lots of safe wild plants, herbs & grass (he wouldn't touch hay). Its not unusual for bunnies with kidney problems to favour wet food. Some vets prescribe steroids although mine never did.

Your vet may suspect kidney infection which can be painful, so ask your vet about appropriate pain relief and anti-inflammatory.
Fluid therapy may help your bunny flush toxins and improve bunny's quality of life. Joey &Boo mentioned syringe feeds , I also use sub q fluids which I obtain from vets for bunnies who are ill.
Sending positive vibes.

thank you for the reply!
as i found out Quinolone is a class of antibiotics.
The vet told me that it is Quinolone antibiotic and anti-inflammatory and she did in her office injectable saline along with deworming without any detail.

She did a poop analysis and she found that my rabbit has parasites in her digestive system. Does that analysis shows if rabbit has ec parasite?

 

[joey&boo]

thank you for your reply!
does urinary infections and kidney problems can cause movement problems?
she can not walk. she tries to walk and she turns over. This weakness focuses on the back feet.

I'm afraid I really don't know. I do know EC often affects kidneys, brain & spinal cord. If its caused an issue in the spinal cord it can cause hind limb paralysis but the legs in my experience are more prone to splaying out or dragging behind. Can you discuss panacur & anti inflammatories with your vet? Plus the best way forward with supportive care. Syringe feeding should help him in the meantime. My bunny actually preferred moistened nuggets (made sloppy) hand fed from a wooden spoon

 

[joey&boo]

thank you for the reply!
as i found out Quinolone is a class of antibiotics.
The vet told me that it is Quinolone antibiotic and anti-inflammatory and she did in her office injectable saline along with deworming without any detail.

She did a poop analysis and she found that my rabbit has parasites in her digestive system. Does that analysis shows if rabbit has ec parasite?

No you can't tell from poop if the have EC, its from bloods & urine I think. I'm guessng they had worms too which they'd tell from the poop analysis

 

[InspectorMorse]

A full blood profile and PCR titre blood test specifically for EC would be your best option to determine exactly what you are dealing with. Encephalitozoon Cuniculi ( EC) is a parasite which effects the brain and central nervous system, the kidneys, the lenses of the eyes and less frequently the liver and heart. The antibiotic you have been given will not treat EC, but bacterial infections. Sadly if the Kidneys are already failing due to EC giving Fenbendazole now will not reverse that. Fenbendazole does not cure EC, it just reduces the amount of EC spores circulating within the bloodstream.


Detailed information about EC here

https://www.dovepress.com/encephali...-manageme-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-VMRR

Given what you have posted on here and looking at the Xray I think without further blood tests the Vet will be treating blind, so to speak. If your Rabbit is in Chronic Renal Failure there are drugs that can be given to support renal function, eg Benazepril,but not reverse damage already done. Fluid therapy and dietry modification is needed too.

These links may be useful to read

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Signs/Cuniculi_signs.html

 

[marab]

A full blood profile and PCR titre blood test specifically for EC would be your best option to determine exactly what you are dealing with. Encephalitozoon Cuniculi ( EC) is a parasite which effects the brain and central nervous system, the kidneys, the lenses of the eyes and less frequently the liver and heart. The antibiotic you have been given will not treat EC, but bacterial infections. Sadly if the Kidneys are already failing due to EC giving Fenbendazole now will not reverse that. Fenbendazole does not cure EC, it just reduces the amount of EC spores circulating within the bloodstream.


Detailed information about EC here

https://www.dovepress.com/encephali...-manageme-peer-reviewed-fulltext-article-VMRR

Given what you have posted on here and looking at the Xray I think without further blood tests the Vet will be treating blind, so to speak. If your Rabbit is in Chronic Renal Failure there are drugs that can be given to support renal function, eg Benazepril,but not reverse damage already done. Fluid therapy and dietry modification is needed too.

These links may be useful to read

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/paresis.htm

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Signs/Cuniculi_signs.html

I agree with you. thank you for your reply!
I already said to vet maybe its good to do a blood analysis and she got upset and told me things like that I don't trust her etc..
she also said that from xray can see that other organs are large for example her heart

 

[marab]

Update


UPDATE: After I took her to another vet, he found that her left leg has ankylosis. Also the vet palpation a tumor in vagina with his hand
He also told us that a tooth has grown too much and passed through into her gum.
I don't know if my rabbit is spayed or not. We found her abandoned when she was like around 3 month old

 

[Omi]

UPDATE: After I took her to another vet, he found that her left leg has ankylosis. Also the vet palpation a tumor in vagina with his hand
He also told us that a tooth has grown too much and passed through into her gum.
I don't know if my rabbit is spayed or not. We found her abandoned when she was like around 3 month old

Poor bunny What has this vet recommended for treatment?

 

[InspectorMorse]

UPDATE: After I took her to another vet, he found that her left leg has ankylosis. Also the vet palpation a tumor in vagina with his hand
He also told us that a tooth has grown too much and passed through into her gum.
I don't know if my rabbit is spayed or not. We found her abandoned when she was like around 3 month old

How awful What has the Vet suggested needs to be done now, clearly your Bunny is gravely ill

 

[marab]

How awful What has the Vet suggested needs to be done now, clearly your Bunny is gravely ill

Poor bunny What has this vet recommended for treatment?

He only told us that doesn't worth to do any surgery and that she isn't making the year!
Any advice on what to do?

 

[Cuthbert&Dillon]

Sending vibes for your bunny.

 

[InspectorMorse]

UPDATE: After I took her to another vet, he found that her left leg has ankylosis. Also the vet palpation a tumor in vagina with his hand
He also told us that a tooth has grown too much and passed through into her gum.
I don't know if my rabbit is spayed or not. We found her abandoned when she was like around 3 month old

He only told us that doesn't worth to do any surgery and that she isn't making the year!
Any advice on what to do?

From the details you have given your Rabbit cannot possibly be left with her teeth in such a bad state, let alone all the other problems. If you cannot find a Vet to provide basic palliative care, including attempting to treat the Dental condition which will require a GA, then the most humane thing would be to provide a peaceful passing. Otherwise she will slowly starve to death. Her arthritic condition will be painful, I sincerely hope that pain relief has been given.

I am very sorry that your Rabbit is so sick, I would spend today trying to find a Vet who can attempt to do a Dental on her and then offer good palliative care for her other painful conditions for what time she has left. Even if she does not make it through a Dental at least her passing will be peaceful, she wont slowly starve and be in constant pain.

 

[bunny momma]

As prey animals, bunnies are excellent at hiding their pain, yet they still need treatment/pain management for conditions such as the ones your bunny has if want her to have a good quality of life. You clearly care about your bunny, and sought a second opinion; so I ask that you consider your options and what is best for your bunny.

Sending you and your bunny lots of vibes.