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Dora’s been poorly for 5 weeks now and we are running out of ideas,any advice welcome

Meet Dora, our 10 year old Lion Head House Bunny.

She has been poorly for 5 weeks now and we are now searching desperately for ideas.

We have been very lucky, she’s been healthy her whole life up to now, no need for any meds or health issues other than annual vaccinations.

5 weeks ago she went off her food (hay and pellets although would have veg/fruit and grass) and was very lethargic, obviously off colour. We took her to the vets the next day and she had pain killer and antibiotic injections & a health check. The only thing that was pulled up on her check was she had some Molar spurs that could be causing an issue.

Nothing improved that week, if anything there was deterioration and the signs started to point to teeth being an issue - wouldn’t touch hard foods or hay or chew on her toys etc.

We decided to bite the bullet and put her under aesthetic whilst still relatively healthy on the 3rd July. She had her molars burred and 3 xrays to look at the rest of her health. Her tongue had a small cut on it so looked likely to have been causing her pain.

Given her age she did well to come through the op. Her x rays pulled up that she had a raging sinus infection on one side too so she was given another shot of antibiotics for that. Other than some arthritis in her back legs (which we were not surprised about given her age), her digestive system and everything else was all clear on the scans.

4 weeks on from the op however, we are still really struggling with her lack of appetite. She had a third antibiotic injection the week after the op but otherwise has just been on daily doses of pain killer (0.5ml twice daily of Meloxidyl). She will not touch pellets (mashed too) or hay (she has grown up on these). She shows signs of an appetite (will run to the fridge) but then we really struggle to get her to have anything. She will eat grass and some veg/fruit but everything pretty much is a battle. We briefly tried syringe feeding her critical care but she hates the whole process and for what we were getting in her were not sure the stress was worth the benefit.

On her good days she will explore outside like there is nothing wrong which makes this whole experience even more frustrating and heart breaking.

As you would expect given her diet, her poops are not at all normal - very wet and she shows signs of stomach cramps at times as well as several diarrhea outbreaks.

She has dropped from a weight of 2.75kg pre illness to around 2.1kg today and we are really struggling to stabilise it. We don’t feel like we’ve made any improvement in the last 4 weeks and unless something changes we think we will lose the battle.

We have been recommend Zantec/Ranitidine to help with stomach related issues (reduce stomach acid) that could be caused by her bad diet/antibiotics which will hopefully be with us in the next couple of days but I am not sure this is the route cause of our issues now.

We have tried getting pro biotics in her but she doesn’t seem to like any form that we give her so we are struggling there too. We have tried all sorts of different hays (alfalfa, 1st cut etc) but nothing tempts her there.

Reading online it looks like Sinus infections
in rabbits can be notoriously hard to control and I’m wondering if it is that that’s holding us back still.

Anyone any ideas/experience with similar issues? Any suggestions for an antibiotic to suggest for Sinus issues that maybe more effective?

Thank you for reading.

6e321d8a32a4025335f90c50ee81a837.jpg



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She is adorable :love: I don’t have experience of sinus infections so I can’t advise, are your vets rabbit savvy exotics vets? Sending lots of vibes for her.
 
What antibiotic is she having? There is no point in giving an antibiotic that is not active against the specific bacteria involved causing the infection. So the Vet should have taken deep nasal swabs for MC+S testing whilst Dora was under GA. This would identify the exact bacteria involved and the best antibiotic to treat it with.

https://www.bsavalibrary.com/conten...d-felineguidelinesforresponsibleantibioticuse

As the antibiotic is being given by injection several days apart I assume it must be a long acting one ?

So more details on antibiotic type being used would be useful

Nebulising the Rabbit with an appropriate nebulising solution such as sterile saline or F10 can help the sinuses to drain. Also, giving a mucolytic such as Bisolvon can thin out the mucus secretions making it easier for it to drain out.

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/nebulising-rabbits/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-C801...eywords=nebuliser+omron&qid=1690865274&sr=8-3

https://hyperdrug.co.uk/f10-antisep...MImbiE_dG6gAMV4iWtBh2E9Am8EAQYASABEgLI1fD_BwE

https://www.viovet.co.uk/Bisolvon-O...MI7f7KmNK6gAMVnxitBh2C5wIOEAQYASABEgL8MPD_BwE

Sinus infections can be bad enough to cause osteomyelitis ie infection spreads into bone. Has the Vet commented on if osteomyelitis was noted on the skull radiographs?

Sinus pain can be extreme, meloxicam ( meloxidyl/metacam/loxixom etc) are often not sufficient to give analgesic cover. A stronger analgesic would be needed. Buprenorphine , Paracetamol or Tramadol for example.

Supplementing the diet with Syringe feeding is necessary if weight loss is continuing

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/syringe...,Amounts,take smaller amounts more frequently.

https://hyperdrug.co.uk/emeraid-her...MI48Wsste6gAMVsjKtBh1moge4EAQYASABEgJ71_D_BwE

https://hyperdrug.co.uk/emeraid-herbivore-sustain/



A shot of Vitamin B12 can stimulate the appetite, but it sounds as though Dora has an appetite but that eating is just too painful for her.

Many Rabbits won’t eat pellets made soft by soaking them, but they will eat them if you crush them up dry.

Whilst not usually recommended, with a Rabbit of Dora’s age and with her severe health problem I would consider offering her a small portion of a muesli type mix. It is like junk food for Rabbits, but when in the last chance saloon eating junk is better than eating nothing and becoming emaciated. I usually try them on this

https://www.vetshop.co.uk/Chudleys-...MIoMfO3NS6gAMVbwGtBh3jSQDfEAQYAiABEgK1ZfD_BwE

Dry pea flakes are another option. I make up a small portion of dried pea flakes, dried mix veg pieces, whole rolled oats and crushed pellets.

https://www.thehayexperts.co.uk/beetroot-the-hay-experts.html

https://www.thehayexperts.co.uk/parsnip-the-hay-experts.html

https://smallpetselect.co.uk/produc...MIzuKUwNW6gAMV8QGtBh3loAyIEAQYByABEgIfBfD_BwE

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui...lled-porridge-oats--taste-the-difference-750g

Only feed these junk foods in very small amounts as too much will cause GI tract upset, usually excess cecotroph production.

It is important that the Vet you are consulting is an Exotics Specialist and/ or very experienced in treating Rabbits.

This info will only be useful if you are in the UK

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/recommended-rabbit-friendly-vets/

It is likely that Dora will need to remain on a lot of daily treatments for the rest of her life. If osteomyelitis is present and adequate pain control cannot be achieved sadly a quality of life assessment needs to be made.

http://www.disabledrabbits.com/quality-of-life.html

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uplo.../1/approaches-to-nasal-disease-in-rabbits.pdf
 
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Shorter version:
- try a nebuliser to ease the breathing / sinus infection
- more / different pain relief
- syringe feed to keep her weight up and guts moving

Plus whatever IM said.

Nebuliser and saline etc available from Amazon. Use with a carrier or suitable box for bunny, cover with a towel and leave for 10 mins or so twice a day. I'm sure there's more specific info on here if you do a search.

This type of nebuliser (but not at that price :shock:...) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Omron-NE-C...4f-9260-ebc19b0cc17b&pd_rd_i=B0081EL4OS&psc=1

Saline for nebulisers is also available from Amazon (shop around for best deal).
 
Dora’s been poorly for 5 weeks now and we are running out of ides, any advice welcome

Thank you for the information everyone, very much appreciate it.

We’ve had a relatively successful syringe feeding session this morning with the Banana flavoured Oxbow critical care which she takes better than the other flavour we had used before.

We are seeing the vets later this afternoon so I will find out what antibiotics she has been treated with. All that I remember was that it was one they believed worked better with respiratory infections. I do know it was injected though and supposed to last for 14 days.

The last lot was around the 12th July. I hadn’t pushed for anymore of this (it hadn’t been suggested by the vets either) as I had read about their potential to upset the gut but I don’t think this is causing her lack of appetite now. Unfortunately I don’t believe a nasal swab was performed so so I suppose it’s going to be difficult to know what to try as we do not think it is fair to put her under again.

Her physical symptoms of the infection to us seem relatively mild (lack of appetite has all was being the main symptom) but we were surprised to find out about it after the op too and it appeared pretty severe on the x ray so it would appear likely it could be pretty bad now & the only thing we have to go off really.

She is sneezing quite a bit, and has some slight nasal discharge. Her eyes have got a little gunkier to in recent days but no obvious swelling could be felt around the mouth.

There was no mention of signs of the infection spreading to her bones on the scan but again we will mention this today.

I will look into the nebuliser.

If we don’t change anything then I’m convinced we’re on a downhill path and letting her rest looks to be the best thing. However, if you guys think that 5 weeks in there is a reasonable chance we maybe able to pull it back with some different medication then we think that has to be worth a shot. She moves around absolutely fine and other than her off days due to her bad diet/gut issues that appear to have come around as a knock on effect from the above, she can be her normal inquisitive self.

Thank you so much.

Rob


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Thank you for the information everyone, very much appreciate it.

We’ve had a relatively successful syringe feeding session this morning with the Banana flavoured Oxbow critical care which she takes better than the other flavour we had used before.

We are seeing the vets later this afternoon so I will find out what antibiotics she has been treated with. All that I remember was that it was one they believed worked better with respiratory infections. I do know it was injected though and supposed to last for 14 days.

The last lot was around the 12th July. I hadn’t pushed for anymore of this (it hadn’t been suggested by the vets either) as I had read about their potential to upset the gut but I don’t think this is causing her lack of appetite now. Unfortunately I don’t believe a nasal swab was performed so so I suppose it’s going to be difficult to know what to try as we do not think it is fair to put her under again.

Her physical symptoms of the infection to us seem relatively mild (lack of appetite has all was being the main symptom) but we were surprised to find out about it after the op too and it appeared pretty severe on the x ray so it would appear likely it could be pretty bad now & the only thing we have to go off really.

She is sneezing quite a bit, and has some slight nasal discharge. Her eyes have got a little gunkier to in recent days but no obvious swelling could be felt around the mouth.

There was no mention of signs of the infection spreading to her bones on the scan but again we will mention this today.

I will look into the nebuliser

Thank you so much.

Rob


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Sounds as though the primary problem is tooth root elongation. The roots of the teeth can over grow and eventually penetrate the nasal passages causing severe pain and infection. They can also press on the nasolacrimal ducts blocking them and causing dacryocystitis ( runny eyes) . Infection can also occur causing conjunctivitis and nasolacrimal duct abscesses. Tooth root elongation also causes sneezing.
 
Dora’s been poorly for 5 weeks now and we are running out of ides, any advice welcome

Sounds as though the primary problem is tooth root elongation. The roots of the teeth can over grow and eventually penetrate the nasal passages causing severe pain and infection. They can also press on the nasolacrimal ducts blocking them and causing dacryocystitis ( runny eyes) . Infection can also occur causing conjunctivitis and nasolacrimal duct abscesses. Tooth root elongation also causes sneezing.

Thanks for the info. Would that be something we can’t overcome?

Should this be evident on the x ray?

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Thanks for the info. Would that be something we can’t overcome?

Should this be evident on the x ray?

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The condition cannot be cured without removal of the effected teeth.As numerous molar teeth are usually involved it would not be ethical to go down that path. Also, molar tooth extraction in Rabbits is major surgery, unless the tooth/teeth are already very loose . It is therefore a case of managing symptoms, especially pain control. Tooth root elongation is painful.The condition is chronic and degenerative.

This X-ray shows tooth root elongation..

KpHvCGn.jpg
 
Dora’s been poorly for 5 weeks now and we are running out of ides, any advice welcome

The condition cannot be cured without removal of the effected teeth.As numerous molar teeth are usually involved it would not be ethical to go down that path. Also, molar tooth extraction in Rabbits is major surgery, unless the tooth/teeth are already very loose . It is therefore a case of managing symptoms, especially pain control. Tooth root elongation is painful.The condition is chronic and degenerative.

This X-ray shows tooth root elongation..

KpHvCGn.jpg

Thank you Mr Morse, we will have another look at her x ray with the vet later and compare with your images.

Totally agreed that removing the teeth is not ethical.

If you were in our position do you think we should still be trying to persevere with pain control/antibiotic treatment? Is she likely to get a decent quality of life back do you think? Sorry to put you on the spot, we just want to do the best thing by her.

There has been sometimes over the last week or so on her better days where we have tried her totally off the Meloxidyl pain killer for a day or so and there appeared to be little effect so I’m thinking the infection control maybe the primary issue at the moment?

Ps. I have had a browse of your rabbit sanctuary website which I think is an amazing, I’ll be sending a donation.

Thank you.

Rob


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Thank you Mr Morse, we will have another look at her x ray with the vet later and compare with your images.

Totally agreed that removing the teeth is not ethical.

If you were in our position do you think we should still be trying to persevere with pain control/antibiotic treatment? Is she likely to get a decent quality of life back do you think? Sorry to put you on the spot, we just want to do the best thing by her.

There has been sometimes over the last week or so on her better days where we have tried her totally off the Meloxidyl pain killer for a day or so and there appeared to be little effect so I’m thinking the infection control maybe the primary issue at the moment?

Ps. I have had a browse of your rabbit sanctuary website which I think is an amazing, I’ll be sending a donation.

Thank you.

Rob


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The Sanctuary is not mine, it is one I support :)

It is possible for a Rabbit with tooth root elongation to have a reasonable quality of life. But each case will vary. I would suggest that pain relief is reviewed. The fact that you noticed no difference when not giving Meloxiodyl might indicate that there is pain, but that Meloxidyl is not controlling it. Rather than that there is no pain. Elongated tooth roots are almost always painful. Which is why the Rabbit is reluctant to eat, regardless of how hungry they are. Chewing causes even more pain so obviously the Rabbit won’t want to chew.

I would want to establish what antibiotic she is on. Antibiotic treatment usually needs to be ongoing for some time, often for several weeks. Sometimes for life.

I would also suggest that the Vet checks to see if the nasolacrimal ducts are draining. They might now be blocked due to elongated tooth roots. This would mean that infection is more likely. The eyes will need daily bathing. Antibiotic eye drops should be prescribed if infection is already present.

With a chronic condition such as tooth root elongation a lot of daily nursing care would be needed for life. Some Rabbits are fine with a lot of hands on care, but for some they find it all far too stressful. What is right to do for the Rabbit will not be the same in all cases with regards to continuing treatment or euthanasia. That decision can only ever be made on a case by case holistic basis. Looking at not only what the clinical needs of the Rabbit are but also whether the Rabbit can cope psychologically with all the hands on care giving the daily treatment requires.

Of course there is also the fact that some people are simply not able to provide the amount of daily care needed, either due to time constraints, eg working full time and caring for a human family and/ or financial constraints. Not everyone has Pet insurance and very few people have a bottomless pit of money to cover the ever escalating cost of Vet treatment.
 
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The Sanctuary is not mine, it is one I support :)

It is possible for a Rabbit with tooth root elongation to have a reasonable quality of life. But each case will vary. I would suggest that pain relief is reviewed. The fact that you noticed no difference when not giving Meloxiodyl might indicate that there is pain, but that Meloxidyl is not controlling it. Rather than that there is no pain. Elongated tooth roots are almost always painful. Which is why the Rabbit is reluctant to eat, regardless of how hungry they are. Chewing causes even more pain so obviously the Rabbit won’t want to chew.

I would want to establish what antibiotic she is on. Antibiotic treatment usually needs to be ongoing for some time, often for several weeks. Sometimes for life.

I would also suggest that the Vet checks to see if the nasolacrimal ducts are draining. They might now be blocked due to elongated tooth roots. This would mean that infection is more likely. The eyes will need daily bathing. Antibiotic eye drops should be prescribed if infection is already present.

With a chronic condition such as tooth root elongation a lot of daily nursing care would be needed for life. Some Rabbits are fine with a lot of hands on care, but for some they find it all far too stressful. What is right to do for the Rabbit will not be the same in all cases with regards to continuing treatment or euthanasia. That decision can only ever be made on a case by case holistic basis. Looking at not only what the clinical needs of the Rabbit are but also whether the Rabbit can cope psychologically with all the hands on care giving the daily treatment requires.

Of course there is also the fact that some people are simply not able to provide the amount of daily care needed, either due to time constraints, eg working full time and caring for a human family and/ or financial constraints. Not everyone has Pet insurance and very few people have a bottomless pit of money to cover the ever escalating cost of Vet treatment.

Thanks again for the info. So we have had our trip to the vets this afternoon & formulated a plan. Although we have always been happy with the treatment they have given us & we believe they have some decent rabbit experience, they did suggest a second opinion from a rabbit/exotic specialist is worthwhile and they were happy to communicate together so we have set up a consultation tomorrow with one of the vets recommended on the rabbit welfare society you recommended.

Root elongation or osteomyelitis was not spotted on the x ray but I guess we'll see what the second opinion says when they get the notes and x ray.

She has had a shot 0.40ml Alamycin La antibiotic today. For ref. this is is also the antibiotic she has had 3 shots of before, although the last one before today being approx 3 weeks ago.

She has had a 0.3ml dose of buprenorphine in addition to 0.5ml Meloxidyl. We have not tried her on the buprenorphine before. A couple of hours after the dos and she is obviously a bit dozy, I guess we'll see how she goes with it. We've been told to try a 1.25ml dose of Calpol too. Apparently all the pain killers work in different ways hence the combination.

We will continue to syringe feed tonight and see how she goes.

Thanks

Rob.
 
Thanks again for the info. So we have had our trip to the vets this afternoon & formulated a plan. Although we have always been happy with the treatment they have given us & we believe they have some decent rabbit experience, they did suggest a second opinion from a rabbit/exotic specialist is worthwhile and they were happy to communicate together so we have set up a consultation tomorrow with one of the vets recommended on the rabbit welfare society you recommended.

Root elongation or osteomyelitis was not spotted on the x ray but I guess we'll see what the second opinion says when they get the notes and x ray.

She has had a shot 0.40ml Alamycin La antibiotic today. For ref. this is is also the antibiotic she has had 3 shots of before, although the last one before today being approx 3 weeks ago.

She has had a 0.3ml dose of buprenorphine in addition to 0.5ml Meloxidyl. We have not tried her on the buprenorphine before. A couple of hours after the dos and she is obviously a bit dozy, I guess we'll see how she goes with it. We've been told to try a 1.25ml dose of Calpol too. Apparently all the pain killers work in different ways hence the combination.

We will continue to syringe feed tonight and see how she goes.

Thanks

Rob.


Buprenorphine is an opioid analgesic therefore it can cause quite marked sedation in some Rabbits. You will need to make sure she keeps eating as being very sedated can mean the Rabbit cannot be bothered to eat. The sedation usually wears off over about 6-8 hours. I hope you were adivsed on the correct strength and dosage of calpol to administer and that it must be the Calpol PARACETAMOL not the Calpol ibuprofen.

Alamycin LA, active ingredient Oxyteracycline,only remains therapeutic for a maximum of 4 days when given via deep IM injection. It is used off licence in Rabbits under the Veterinary prescribing Cascade. This should have been explained to you by the Vet prior to the injection being administered

https://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/ProductInformationDatabase/files/SPC_Documents/SPC_138936.PDF

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-cascade-prescribing-unauthorised-medicines


Excellent that a referral to a more experienced Vet has been suggested. I have far more respect for a Vet who will admit that they are not too Rabbit Savvy rather than go blindly on :)

I hope that the second opinion Vet can offer some additional help to make Dora feel more comfortable.
 
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Hi Mrs M,

Thank you so much for all of your input today. You have inputted a lot of information that we have not been given which is appreciated, I just wish I had asked the question sooner.

You’re extremely knowledgable, are you a vet? I’d be more than happy to refer her your way if that was the case! The closest vet recommended on the rabbit welfare pages to us in Staffordshire that has any availability is 50 minutes away so we are planning on having an online consultation to start with so she can advise on the x rays etc.

We were recommended the infant strength Paracetamol calpol 1.25ml per day.

What you have said about the buprenorphine is also correct, she appeared markedly sedated for several hours after and we had to put some veg leaves literally in front of her mouth to keep her eating. I’m not sure that drug would be of much benefit to her long term as she has little interest in anything when she is knocked out like that.

Interesting/disappointing what you say about the antibiotics, we were advised it would be in the system for 2 weeks. Do you have a recommendation on anti biotics? Frustrating that we don’t have the nasal swab, I just don’t think it’s fair to put her under general again to get this.

Thanks a lot
Rob


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Inspector Morse has an awful lot of first hand experience with poorly rabbits and is a very valuable source of information - but she is not a qualified vet. Probably the next best thing on here, though... there are many rabbits that have lived better lives because of IM, including some of mine. :love:
 
Inspector Morse has an awful lot of first hand experience with poorly rabbits and is a very valuable source of information - but she is not a qualified vet. Probably the next best thing on here, though... there are many rabbits that have lived better lives because of IM, including some of mine. :love:

Ahh understood, she sure is a valuable asset to the community & the advice is highly appreciated.


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Hi Mrs M,

Thank you so much for all of your input today. You have inputted a lot of information that we have not been given which is appreciated, I just wish I had asked the question sooner.

You’re extremely knowledgable, are you a vet? I’d be more than happy to refer her your way if that was the case! The closest vet recommended on the rabbit welfare pages to us in Staffordshire that has any availability is 50 minutes away so we are planning on having an online consultation to start with so she can advise on the x rays etc.

We were recommended the infant strength Paracetamol calpol 1.25ml per day.

What you have said about the buprenorphine is also correct, she appeared markedly sedated for several hours after and we had to put some veg leaves literally in front of her mouth to keep her eating. I’m not sure that drug would be of much benefit to her long term as she has little interest in anything when she is knocked out like that.

Interesting/disappointing what you say about the antibiotics, we were advised it would be in the system for 2 weeks. Do you have a recommendation on anti biotics? Frustrating that we don’t have the nasal swab, I just don’t think it’s fair to put her under general again to get this.

Thanks a lot
Rob

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Oh goodness, I am definitely not a Vet. I have just learned from having cared for 152 Rabbits over the last 25 years. I am still learning. Rabbit medicine has progressed a lot over the 25 years, albeit that the progress is not seen in all Small Animal Practices. A Rabbit Savvy Vet is worth their weight in gold.

I agree that putting Dora under GA again is best avoided unless absolutely essential. I’d wait to hear what the Specialist Vet says re the X-rays. He/She could also advise you on an appropriate antibiotic and analgesia protocol. I really do recommend nebulising, it can help the symptoms a lot. I don’t know if you have ever had sinusitis? If you have you will know it can cause headaches and face pain. Once the sinuses start to drain the discomfort reduces a lot. Antibiotics can be given via a nebuliser too, often in combination with a systemic antibiotic. So targeting the infection from all angles.

For Dora whilst you might not achieve a cure, with good palliative care she could still have a reasonable quality of life. I think making sure she has a good pain control protocol, one that keeps her comfortable but doesn’t completely knock her out. I have found that most Rabbits seem to cope well with Tramadol. So far none of my Rabbits who have been prescribed it have had any unwanted side effects such as sedation. You might find that a combination of Meloxidyl and Paracetamol is sufficient and stronger drugs are not needed. The doses can be titrated up or down so she has a dose that gives good pain control but the kidneys and liver are not put under more strain than is necessary.

The specialist Vet will weigh up all the risks v benefits for Dora with regards to how to proceed. In my opinion quality of life comes before quantity. So whilst some drugs do carry risks if given long term and at high doses, if they are needed to keep an elderly Rabbit comfortable then I would always accept those risks. For animals they don’t worry about what might happen in 6 months time, as long as they are comfortable in the here and now then in their world all is fine :)
 
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Hi guys,

We have been nebulising Dora with F10 for a few days now, and ok with that side of things. We have now got Bisolven and just wondering what the recommendation is with this. We know we can give it her orally as an option but were interested which way people found more successful. If nebulising, what sort of dilution is suitable?

Thanks a lot
Rob


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