Rabbit diet, One with serious dental issues and an Elderbun. Advice

[Shayne_]

Hey everyone, so background on both.

Darcie is a small dutch male (snipped) who is 6 yrs old, hes had health problems through his life and underlying worries about immune system etc. Hes just gotten over a case of mites (likely from hay) and during that treatment he got a resp infection, they have said it could be pastuerella from birth .. very unsure as history with underlying weakness.. After 5 weeks on Baytrill and changes to injections etc he has pulled through but during this found his back molars are in very bad condition and he has developed an abnormality on his face. The vet has said its from nerve damage due to the back teeth and the giving of medication also may have benefactored. The front teeth are in excellant shape which is why hadnt thought to check the back ones. Hes got a little weeping from the eyes and nose from the tooth damage partially blocking the tear ducts but no infections. Hes active, otherwise healthy and eats/drinks like a horse! Hes only just starting to drop food, mostly its carrots that he has difficulty with but not all the time.. He eats most of what he chews on, so laying off carrots for now. He is prefering fresh veggies over dry food which is and always has been since 4 months old, burgess excell super bunny pellets. (Although now its the one for older bunnies)

Loona is a lop eared Elderbun at 9 yrs + .. Unsure at age as she was approx 5-7 when got her. She is very healthy, great teeth front and back, good wieght, eats and eats and loves being in the garden (they have full run of house and garden) but she has suddenly come up with a few small issues that the vet checked out today. Her fur is getting that old feel and look about it, her fur around nose and eyes looks a bit faded/discoloured but like feet are really and shes slowing down, more flompy and easy to catch but still will run off lol.. The vet has cleared her of any health issues to worry about and said its general old age catching up on her.

Weve been advised to keep a close eye on both, feeding and drinking wise. If Darcie starts dropping food more or loses wieght then to go back and make decisions then. The vet agrees that he wont make it through surgery and keeping him comfortable is the best we can do until the time comes he is no longer his happy self and we make the decision.

What im really after is some advice on diet. At the minute they have constant access to the Excell pellets and a steady (I feel like im forever offering more) Veg.. They have carrots, spring greens, kale, mixed colour peppers, hay, the lawn and its never ending supply of grass, clover and then weeds i add in (All are checked rabbit safe such as dandelions and the clover) Green beans, rocket, lambs lettuce and spinach ( occasionally )

Is there anything suitable veg wise i can give that Darcie may not struggle with or help since hes not eating his pellets so much ? Also im wondering if its worth offering a seed mix style rabbit food to see if he will eat that with more ease, but i know its about bad for selective feeding etc.

Thanks in advance. Shayne

Also to add.. Darcie refused pretty much point blank and always has.. To eat hay.. He ignores it even the green excel and alfalfa with dandelions.. He picks out the dandelions .. Loona eats it all the time.

Also.. Added a couple of pics to the photos folder if want to see them

 

[Pinky&Kief]

You could try herbs? I grow rosemary, mint, coriander, flat leaf parsley, curly parsley and basil on my windowsill for the bun and also a rose plant. She loves them!!

 

[Shayne_]

Ohh ive never tried those on the buns, Hadnt thought of it, i give the tortoises some herbs so ill try them see if takes a fancy ! Thank you! :thumb:

 

[Tamsin]

You could ask try adding a bit of water to his pellets to soften them. The other food to dry is fibafirst - you use it like your would dry food but it's a much more loosely held together mix of dry plant etc. so it would be softer for eating. You could also try making up your own mash with ingredients like rolled (porridge) oats, pureed veggies, dust from the bottom of the pellet bag (or smush some up) etc. even add a vitamin powder in to make sure he's getting a good balance. You might even be able to sneak in hay if you chop it up very finely with scissors

With Loona, one option would be try out metacam, sometimes they can get a bit of pain from arthritis and that slows them down, it can be tough to tell as they don't show a lot of pain signals so trying it and and monitoring her behaviour might be something you could discuss with the vet.

 

[Shayne_]

You could ask try adding a bit of water to his pellets to soften them. The other food to dry is fibafirst - you use it like your would dry food but it's a much more loosely held together mix of dry plant etc. so it would be softer for eating. You could also try making up your own mash with ingredients like rolled (porridge) oats, pureed veggies, dust from the bottom of the pellet bag (or smush some up) etc. even add a vitamin powder in to make sure he's getting a good balance. You might even be able to sneak in hay if you chop it up very finely with scissors

With Loona, one option would be try out metacam, sometimes they can get a bit of pain from arthritis and that slows them down, it can be tough to tell as they don't show a lot of pain signals so trying it and and monitoring her behaviour might be something you could discuss with the vet.

Thanks for the help :thumb:

The fibafirst, ive just been googling it and it looks great but do you know if or where can get samples? To check he likes it before buying, i have ALOT of Excel also as buy in the sacks into a food bin (half a bin left) so im thinking im going to try soften it abit first. The porridge oats, would that be smushed up wet with the pellets into a mash together? Im not sure if will like it but going to have a go since i have some! Im going to look for a vitamin powder, we asked the vet today about a product called AVIPRO which we used for Muffy before she died almost 7 years ago (Old age she was 11 at the time, ginger dutch!) and it was probiotic.. But they said to go back next week for it as didnt have any in. That we used to add to water, no idea if thats still something reccomended or not as been so long. Do you know of any vitamin or probiotic type powders that are reccomended ?

When we go back for the next check up ill ask the vet about the Metacam and advice on Arthritus. Ive no idea if she has or not, shows no pain, just the slowing down.. Although half the time shes active as ever, she just tends to sleep more than ever and then wake up slowly and stretch more. It could be a sign, ill make sure to mention it again.

Thanks again :thumb:

 

[Tamsin]

I think Avipro might still be around and considered good You could add it to the mushed pellets/porridge.

For the porridge oats, just add a bit of water, and you can feed like that or add other things in - they are good for keeping weight on. Most bunnies also find them very tasty so you can add other things too them you want them to eat to get a bigger balance.

If you email Supreme (the manufacturers), they might send you a sample, they are generally quite helpful

 

[Shayne_]

I think Avipro might still be around and considered good You could add it to the mushed pellets/porridge.

For the porridge oats, just add a bit of water, and you can feed like that or add other things in - they are good for keeping weight on. Most bunnies also find them very tasty so you can add other things too them you want them to eat to get a bigger balance.

If you email Supreme (the manufacturers), they might send you a sample, they are generally quite helpful

Ive just tried porridge, Loona loves it, Darcie refused it but.. I softened the pellets in a tub (not so much it lost all shape) and offered and he is munching it down like he is starving! I feel terrible for not softening it sooner the poor sod! ive put the tub in the indoor cage for overnight (they huddle in there even though its pretty much the glorified toilet, during the night no matter the rest of the kitchen lol) and hes still eating.. Munching away.. Pic

Im going to email them now and see what they say! They havent got photos on the site so i googled some. Looks strange but good!

Ill look into getting the AVIPRO too, through vets or not, since they said they dont stock it and 'might' have it next week.

Thank you!!

 

[Fee]

As much as i hate the place, Pets at Home sell small packs of fibafirst...

You also say Darcie hates hay... have you tried online for alternative ones.

TheHayExperts or Hayforpets can give you new types of hay to try.

Good luck xxxxx

 

[Shayne_]

Thank you ill have a look at pets at home, i cant stand them either (Friends worked for them and too much horrofying insight given) But they sell burgess excel which we normally get.. Hay wise he has been given timothy, alfalfa, meadow and plain hay. Aswell as the Excel range with dandelions and the bark etc but he still wont eat it. Ive looked on the site and most are variations of it apart from Oat hay which im unsure of but im going to give a go with the readigrass. Im also cutting up hay into thesoftened food to see if he eats it that way. Fingers crossed! They both tucked there way through all the softened pellets last night it was licked clean, they havent eaten that much together for a couple of weeks now so im happy! Ive given more and darcie is again going for it! :thumb:

 

[Fee]

:thumb:.. Fantastic....nothing nicer to see than bunnies with full tummies!!!

 

[Tamsin]

Aww, that's great news

Just a thought, but it might be worth weighing him if you've got scales, that will make it much easier for you to monitor how he's doing weigh wise. Sometimes it's tough to be sure whether they are going up/down or you are imagining things :lol:

 

[MightyMax]

As much as i hate the place, Pets at Home sell small packs of fibafirst...

You also say Darcie hates hay... have you tried online for alternative ones.

TheHayExperts or Hayforpets can give you new types of hay to try.

Good luck xxxxx

The dried readigrass is a good and tastier alternative to normal hay. I haven't known a bunny to reject it ..

 

[Shayne_]

Thanks everyone!

Ive ordered samples and readigrass to try and also weighed him.. Hes 1410g which is about the same as yesterday at the vets The week before he was 1305g so hes put on weight since then! Hopefully he will keep piling on the grams! Appearance wise hes looking a chunky butt compared to a month ago when he was really skinny and unwell with all the treatment and sickness. Hes always been dainty and skinny though so im not sure how chunky he will ever be, just hope he carries on eating like he is right now.

 

[Shayne_]

Hello everyone, I just wanted to thank you all for the help and advice, unfortunately we lost Darcie today. He was PTS this morning after finding him with blood from nose and mouth. He was suffering due to the teeth and we found he had small tumours (we originally thought sores) growing very quickly on his tongue and lip. Devastated but feel did the best thing, he was suffering terribly.

RIP our little banana bun!

 

[Tamsin]

I'm so sorry to hear you lost your handsome chap You did do the best thing, you provided for him and kept him comfy and then you made sure he didn't suffer.

How is Loona getting on?

 

[Shayne_]

She seems alright, shes eating and been bopping about, just tried to get her to come inside but shes being stubborn and ran across the lawn.. Ill try again in a minute. Im not sure if she knows or is just being a pain in the ****.. Lol. I feel really anxious about her being alone, but shes 9 yrs old.. Im not sure we can get her a friend of a similar age. I would if i found one though.. Shes always been so docile and accepting of all animals.. other rabbits included. I went the pet shop and bought her some goodies, Not actually tried these ones before, i hope she likes them. I might take pics and post, see if anyone elses buns have liked them before i offer them tonight to munch on. I heard rabbits go down hill when losing there bonded bunny mate so im anxious she will fall apart, esp with her age.

Edit.. Finally got her herded up! :lol:

 

[Tamsin]

You could try checking local rescues, they do occasionally have older rabbits in and they are tough to find homes for so it could be a perfect solution for both bunnies if you can find one.

 

[Shayne_]

Ive just been doing that and i cant find one over 3 yrs of age.. Ill keep looking, i just feel like she will get lonesome. But then im thinking .. What if she passes soon and then ive another old rabbit without a friend.. Jeez. This is hard

 

[Tamsin]

It's a weird question to ask, but are you planning to keep on having bunnies? If so perhaps two laid back three year old might actually be a good match. If you pick relaxed personalities they could still hang about together but would be company for each other if she did pass.

 

[Shayne_]

I havent got the space for 2 more, we keep the buns free range house.. Just the open cage/litter tray/ lock in if needed and thats too small for 3 buns. Cant fit a bigger cage in the kitchen.. apart from the big hutch which is for summer and shelter when in the garden. But thats not fit for 3 buns unless i split up groups.. Im not sure how to work it.. Weve always given the buns free range of house and garden you see and the hutch/indoor cages are mostly chillout/poop zones unless for lock ins. I really dont like having my buns locked up in cages/hutches unless a must