Problems with flinching with injections

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

Hi, sorry to bother everyone. I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on giving injections with a rabbit that flinches? One of my girls has a lower respiratory tract infection that isn't going. It's been a good 2 months+ now and oral antibiotics (co-trim, marbocyl) weren't working (she's also being nebulised each day with 10ml saline and 0.04ml of f10 + on metacam).
She's been put on engemycin injections by the exotics vet every 72hrs which I've been giving at home with no problem for the last week and a half or so (4 injections so far) after being taught by the vet how to do it.
Unfortunately today she's suddenly decided she's had enough and she's starting to give a short, sharp flinch and pull away every time the needle goes in. It pulls the needle straight back out again.
I just had my worst nightmare (was warned by the vet how lethal the drug is if ingested) and had a tiny spill on the back of her neck which I've had to clean with water repeatedly and desperately hope that I've got it all out. She's only had half a dose today, she still has 0.4ml left in the syringe.
She's seeing the vet tomorrow (they're seeing her early as she was wheezing on Friday so it might be that we need to do an x-ray now) but they're not in today except for emergencies (as I understand it the call goes to the vet or nurse at home, no one is in the clinic) so I dont' really want to call and bother them at home as this isn't an emergency.
Any idea what I can do today? I'm worried about her missing out on the rest of the dose today. It is also stressing her out which is why I've given her a break for the moment.
And if the vet wants me to keep her on it as planned for the rest of the course I'm still going to have to give it to her at home, so may need to find a way to get past this problem :?

 

[Graciee]

I'm no expert but are you doing the tent thing and going in at an angle?

What colour needles have they given you, I was using green but was just randomly given blue when I got more the other day and theyre much thinner and I don't think my rabbit even notices them going in tbh! I think even smaller is orange? Wondering if a smaller needle might be easier is all. I hold the tent thing I make with the skin with one hand and syringe in the other so even if he moves where I'm putting the needle in is steady. If that makes sense [emoji51]

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[InspectorMorse]

Intra muscular or subcutaneous injections ?


Is there any lumpiness in or near the area you are injecting if subcutaneous ?

What gauge needle are you using ?

 

[Graciee]

Intra muscular or subcutaneous injections ?


Is there any lumpiness in or near the area you are injecting if subcutaneous ?

What gauge needle are you using ?

Yea answer this, rather than my ramblings [emoji38]

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[~ILoveMyBunny~]

I'm no expert but are you doing the tent thing and going in at an angle?

What colour needles have they given you, I was using green but was just randomly given blue when I got more the other day and theyre much thinner and I don't think my rabbit even notices them going in tbh! I think even smaller is orange? Wondering if a smaller needle might be easier is all. I hold the tent thing I make with the skin with one hand and syringe in the other so even if he moves where I'm putting the needle in is steady. If that makes sense [emoji51]

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Yes, pulling her skin into the tent as the vet showed me to do. I'm being very meticulous about the whole process and trying to make sure it's exactly how she showed me.
I've been given green needles (larger) to draw up then told to swap to the blues (smaller) for injecting.
Yep, I understand what you mean, that's exactly what I'm doing. She's just decided today that enough is enough, I'm not having it anymore! I can't say I blame her poor girl, she's gone through so much
It's the violent way that she flinches that does it. To be fair that's her nature. She's a very assertive girl and she'll do that exact movement whenever she's annoyed at you for something-! It's like a very sharp, definite flick that just says "No." If that makes any sense-!

Intra muscular or subcutaneous injections ?


Is there any lumpiness in or near the area you are injecting if subcutaneous ?

What gauge needle are you using ?

Not sure of the gauge but I've been given green tip to draw up then swap to blue tip to inject. I'll go look to see what the size is.
Subcutaneous. There's no lumpiness, but there is a bit of a scab to the side. I've been careful to try to avoid that area. Of course the skin has been pulled around a little (gentle though I was) from washing the spill off. It was only a drop but still a bit of a pain to get out. I was so paranoid about leaving a trace. I could imagine it being slightly sore knowing how delicate rabbits skin is though
Edit: The back of the packet says: 23G x 5/8" - 0.6 x 16mm


Thank you both so much for answering xx

Edit: Oh, should also mention that there are two of us. My brother's been trying to keep her calm by stroking her head. She's fine until she feels it go in-!

 

[Graciee]

Does she like oats? [emoji38] I do it on my own so I put some oats in a small bowl and he's nomming then when I do the injection and I just make sure to always pick a different spot to give it, coz it's every other night for my bun. The blue ones are so nice to use can't believe I've been stabbing mine with green all this time [emoji38]


Ooo or what about some banana? I'm thinking something really tasty for her to hopefully distract her

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[Shimmer]

I try to do things like that in an area they are not used to eg kitchen worktop or bathroom. They tend to 'freeze' more in an unfamiliar environment. It ought to get easier with practice, so I would just try again. Make sure her feet are on something non-slippy (like a towel). Maybe even get your other person to hold her against them (ie feet against chest, hand under bunny's bum), or put bunny on a carpet between your knees - basically sit right over them. Have some tissue ready in case there is any spillage.

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

Does she like oats? [emoji38] I do it on my own so I put some oats in a small bowl and he's nomming then when I do the injection and I just make sure to always pick a different spot to give it, coz it's every other night for my bun. The blue ones are so nice to use can't believe I've been stabbing mine with green all this time [emoji38]


Ooo or what about some banana? I'm thinking something really tasty for her to hopefully distract her

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I tried banana! She was excited until she realised what I was doing then she just dropped it :roll:
Oh wow, this is hard with two of us - I can't imagine having to do it alone!

I try to do things like that in an area they are not used to eg kitchen worktop or bathroom. They tend to 'freeze' more in an unfamiliar environment. It ought to get easier with practice, so I would just try again. Make sure her feet are on something non-slippy (like a towel). Maybe even get your other person to hold her against them (ie feet against chest, hand under bunny's bum), or put bunny on a carpet between your knees - basically sit right over them. Have some tissue ready in case there is any spillage.

Yeah that's what I'd tried, I knew if she was somewhere she was comfortable she'd just take off. She does that just for metacam-! But I've used the same area for each of the injections so perhaps she's just used to it now and finding her confidence.
Didn't think if the kitchen counter, I might try that! Thought I have to be careful, she's a jumper. Perhaps with my brother holding onto her and with her sat in an open-topped carrier?


Hmm, there might be some different things I could try next time if she's kept on it. Thank you all so much.
Unfortunately I had another attempt tonight but I think I got too nervous, I hate the idea that I'm hurting her and ended up spilling it on her fur again.
Because I don't know how much she actually got I can't make another attempt so I'll see what the vet says tomorrow. I highly suspect she'll do x-rays. I'm just hoping it doesn't reveal something else
Despite being on a 'diet' at the moment (she's a little bit chonky ) Lunar's been showered with treats tonight. I felt so bad about hurting her and stressing her. She deserves them!

 

[Shimmer]

I think a lot of it is just practice. You will soon be able to do the injections very quickly, almost without thinking about it. It helps if you can practise on something. Use a syringe and needle and practice with just water on anything that vaguely resembles a rabbit - maybe a toy, or an old tshirt on a small cushion.

 

[bunny momma]

Your idea to use a carrier that opens at top may work.
Is the medication cold? Perhaps she is flinching from cold liquid rather than the needle?
Sending positive vibes for you and your bunny.

 

[InspectorMorse]

If you are injecting in almost the same place then the area might be very sensitive now. Also, if some of the abx goes intradermal between the layers of skin) instead of under the skin it will sting.

You could use a smaller gauge needle, one with an orange top.As long as the abx solution isn’t too thick.

The data sheet also states that repeat doses should be administered at different sites, so I assume it is known to cause some local reaction at the injection site

‘’Before administration, clean the area of the injection site and swab with spirit. Repeat doses should be administered at different sites, and the sites massaged well after injection.’’

https://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/productinformationdatabase/files/SPC_Documents/SPC_138456.PDF

 

[~ILoveMyBunny~]

I think a lot of it is just practice. You will soon be able to do the injections very quickly, almost without thinking about it. It helps if you can practise on something. Use a syringe and needle and practice with just water on anything that vaguely resembles a rabbit - maybe a toy, or an old tshirt on a small cushion.

Oh now that's a good idea! Considering I have a phobia of needles anyway it's possible she's picking up on my own nerves no matter how hard I try not to show them. I was starting to get more confident until yesterday! Funny enough though I just had a feeling that she was going to move, long before she actually did it. Perhaps she picked up on my own anticipation. Rabbits are so good at reading people I've found.

Your idea to use a carrier that opens at top may work.
Is the medication cold? Perhaps she is flinching from cold liquid rather than the needle?
Sending positive vibes for you and your bunny.

It's room temperature, I was told it didn't need to go in the fridge - just that it's light sensitive and needs to be kept in the outer box

If you are injecting in almost the same place then the area might be very sensitive now. Also, if some of the abx goes intradermal between the layers of skin) instead of under the skin it will sting.

You could use a smaller gauge needle, one with an orange top.As long as the abx solution isn’t too thick.

The data sheet also states that repeat doses should be administered at different sites, so I assume it is known to cause some local reaction at the injection site

‘’Before administration, clean the area of the injection site and swab with spirit. Repeat doses should be administered at different sites, and the sites massaged well after injection.’’

https://www.vmd.defra.gov.uk/productinformationdatabase/files/SPC_Documents/SPC_138456.PDF

I have been trying to vary the injection site - though it's hard to see with all the fluff. She's a lionhead cross so there's a lot fur. My brother has a lot of health conditions and is constantly being used as a pincushion, he reminded me that the area is probably quite sore by now so I've tried to keep that in mind.
I didn't know there was a smaller needle, perhaps the vet might be able to give me that instead. I don't think it's a very thick solution, seems water-like.
Thank you so much for finding the data sheet! That's actually quite helpful. Perhaps I had accidentally hit a sensitive area. I'll ask the vet to have a look at the back of her neck. There is a scab in one area which I tried to avoid yesterday.




Thank you all so much for all of your help. Lunar's actually really well in herself today. She's been doing well since saturday so perhaps it is starting to work after all? Trying to be hopeful that it's not something worse. I've seen a few experiences where it turned out to be something like a thymoma and I'm so scared of it being something bad. We've already got our sweet Jazzie in kidney failure from EC (though at the moment she's doing extremely well!) and we're not ready to lose Lunar too