Outdoor Bunnies keeping them clean and happy!!!

[loz83]

Hi Everyone

this is my first time posting but just trying to help my mum keep her bunnies clean and happy as ever... it seems it isn't so easy!!

My mum bought my little sister her first bunnies about 1 1/2 ago and since we are animal loving family we've been trying to do our best for them but it never feels enough.
My mum would never keep an animal in a small cage or hutch, she's just not the sort and would feel this is cruel.

So at first the 2 lovely bunnies, Thomas (Dutch) and Peanut (Lop) were allowed full run of the back garden at all times. Both neuterd as they reached 6 months so stayed the bestest of friends.

After several escapes and recaptures the inevitable happened and peanut never came home. Thomas was soooo miserable and lonely and was not allowed out of his hutch for long due to his great digging ability. He's such a naughty but very funny bunny we couldn't leave him alone so we got Lola (dark blonde lion head female, supermodel of the rabbit world)
Whilst we kept them in and waiting for Lola's neutering wounds to heal, we finally finished the trenches and had fully armed the edges of the garden with chicken wire. Once out and about and after a couple of fights eventually the 2 were inseparable but then the clan started to grow, Lucy (platinum lion head) needed rescuing from a small hutch she never left due to biting a small child in her past, almost the same time Flopsy (female lop) also needed a new home after all her family died and she was alone with her children owners grown up and not wanting her anymore. It took about 4 months to introduce the new duo and get them all to get along.

In this time Thomas being the naughty little rabbit he was spent his day building new burrows and new escape routes for his new family... grrrr!!

Enough was enough and with not a single plant left in the garden and now 4 bunnies digging we had to create an enclosure. We replaced the 4 hutches with one giant hutch, split half of the garden up with fencing, laid chicken wire under the ground, not just in trenches. Their new home is about 6 metres by 2 meters, so pretty big!!

However, now the trouble comes with keeping them clean and happy... first lets cover keeping them clean, apparently the 4 of them cannot decide on a toilet and just cover the entire patch, we try digging it over regularly but theres just soooo much poop!! Is there a way of making them use 1 area, a scent or anything that we can then shovel up and into a bin much easier?(i.ve tried a corner plastic toilet but flopsy just sits in it Secondly I said to my mum maybe we should cover the entire space with straw and rake it up once a week... obviously this would use a huge amount of straw, I have located a farm which I going to pop into tomorrow to see how much bales are... but am also just wondering what other people do? is this the best option, would this be soggy mush in the rain.

Secondly, entertainment.... they seem so bored, Thomas still escapes regularly, recently he found a weak point where the fence meets the edge of the chicken wire and pulled it back enough to dig a new burrow under the patio, when you shine a torch down it looks like it goes on forever with lots of side tunnels leading off, obviously this is dangerous and eventually either a slab will come piling in on them OR he will dig out and possibly end up where ever Peanut did.

At the same time, we feel so mean and nastly putting bricks down his lovely burrow which really upset him after all his hard work, and even Lucy spent half an hour thumping away in protest that she wasn't allowed in the burrow. How can we let him burrow without it being a danger to himself and causing too much damage??

and we stupidly thought that giving 4 rabbits (who all now really love each other) plenty of space and the best food available, plenty of water tubs for drinking and bathing, toys, plant pots and a good shelter would be enough, but I don't think it is, they just look bored all the time.

my mum is disabled and can't do too much with them everyday and my little sister is a typical lazy child when it comes to looking after her bunnies so they dont get loads of human attention outsdide of daily maintenance (feeding, tidying, wateringe etc). I am there every other Sunday and make sure they get a really good clean up and make sure they are safe and secure but I can't do much more.

do you have any tips on keeping them clean, entertained and safe... we are up for any ideas? mum has already completely changed her garden for the rabbits and spent a fortune in the process so is willing to try most things... and also is their any good ways of getting kids more interactive with the bunnies, something i could get my sister and her friends involved in to get them playing with the bunnies more often??

I was considering buying a big heap of top soil that Thomas would be able to dig into without getting out of the garden but I would need to make the fence a lot higher first, at the moment it's only about 3ft high (the outer garden fence is over 6ft so foxes etc can't get in) but Thomas is getting bigger by the day and can just about touch his nose to the top when standing, he’s really big now and all muscle.

All of them are in great shape and look like show rabbits with their super thick fur from being outside most of the time, they are beautifully clean and healthy looking bunnies and when having check-ups the vet always comments on how big and healthy they are.
Thanks for taking the time to read, I look forward to your replies
Laura x

 

[Elena]

Firstly foxes can easily jump six foot high fences. I've seen a fox on our garden shed also both foxes and rabbits can chew through chicken wire so you might want to think through something else in time. Athough space is good for rabbits, I personally feel it's best to make sure it's secure as well. There is a link in my signature to a thread with loads and load of pictures of people's setups.

As for them looking bored, when in the day are you talking? Bunnies are naturally not very active in the middle of the day. Their active times come at dawn and dusk. They should be eating hay a lot of the time or grazing on grass. You could make a burrow by digging out a section and lining it with pipe or using a tunnel to join hutch or shed to a run or aviary. Mine all love running through tunnel like areas.

Keeping them clean. Are they all neutered? Are you talking about on grass or in the hutch? Bunnies can be litter trained though it's more harnessing a natural behaviour they have to have one communal latrine. Many members use underbed storage trays as litter trays as they are deep enough to contain everything and for wee to not go over the sides. Bunnies tend to back up, lift their tails and then wee which can result in it going over the edge of shallow trays. I line mine with hay as they tend to like to poop where they eat.

Is it possible for you to show us a photo of your setup? That may help to suggest ideas.

 

[bethepoet]

I'm finding it hard to visualise your setup - have you got any photos so we could get an idea of what could be done?

As Elena said, foxes can jump and chew chicken wire - as can the bunnies. Better to sacrifice a small amount of space in order to keep them safe than allow them free run of a huge space but leave it unprotected. So, something overhead is a must, I would say. As for the burrowing - if it were me, I'd just fill it in. I'd feel bad but he's bound to do lots and lots more, and I'd hate for them to just dig their way out one day. Is there no concrete/paving in the garden? If I had a large garden I think I'd have the main area (hutch/shed/run etc) on paving slabs, with supervised play time on the grass each day.

Litter training - don't quote me on this, but I've read that the larger the area the bunny has, the lazier they can become about toilet habits because there's just so much space to relieve himself anywhere & everywhere he shouldn't. On that front, I would have LOTS of litter trays, even outside. At least one for each bunny, plus a couple extra maybe. Fill it with wood litter to weigh it down should they decide to move it. Put hay in it too, with water & toys nearby. Just make them want to be in it as much as possible. With them looking bored, that's kind of just how rabbits look. They're most active early morning and evening so chances are you won't see them being truly entertained. They like to dig, chew stuff, rip stuff, move stuff around. Toilet roll tubes (maybe even one with some roll left on it, mine like that), phonebooks, balled up paper and anything made of untreated wood or hard plastic make good boredom breakers if you really want to get them stuff. All very cheap.

As for your sister, I would suggest to your mum that she ties rewards to doing something for/with them. How old is she? If she's really young you could have charts and stickers. For example, if she fills their water/food/hay up, she gets a sticker, five stickers equal a magazine or something, and so on. Make it part of her routine but don't leave it all down to her. I know people who just leave it all up to the kids and complain when they have smelly/badly behaved animals and I just think "what did you think would happen when you left a living, breathing creature in the care of a seven year old?!". Makes me very angry. Anyway. Maybe pocket money? Especially if they're young, you could do have a price for each task. Water refill = 2p. Food refill = 1p. 10 minutes spent with the rabbits = 10p. It's not much, and it's only money she'd be giving her here and there anyway, but if they can actually see and feel how much that job is worth doing straight away, they'll keep doing it. They're earning their pocket money and learning about 'work' too.

If she's older, I'd make it phone credit, or cinema tickets or a taxi service for the night or something. Everybody has a price, haha!

 

[loz83]

Hi Everyone

Thanks for your help....

in answer to a few things, the fox issue...
A few people have said this about foxes and I'm possibly still in denial as I've never seen it happen although I never want to either... mum has loads of foxes in the area, in the winter they have even walked straight into the house and been found eating from the cat bowl they are so hungry, last winter a vixon with cubs kept coming inside if/when the door was open for the cat so mum resorted to leaving a bowl outside for her as she must have been very hungry to become so brave.
at the same time as I'm saying this, the houses on both sides of us keep huge pigeon lofts and none of us have ever seen a fox get into any of the back yards. I guess they must be able to though, so after speaking to mum this morning we are going to look at ways of better securing the rabbits. Fingers crossed they remain oK in the mean time.
Secondly, if Thomas could chew through chicken wire he so would have by now, he's such a strong little boy but his skills obviously not got him through the chicken wire yet so fingers crossed he never susses that one out... there's still the 6ft fence to contend with though, the chicken wire is only there to keep him off the plants.

I was over at mums this morning and gave them a good clean out, had to really scream at my sister though as the water wasn't crystal clear which means she hasn't done it every day like I have told her..... I am currently trying to pay her £1 everytime she changes the food and water, she's 11 so wants the cash... but apprently not that much as mum says she's only earnt £3 in the past 2 weeks, every other day mums had to struggle to get to them herself.

Totally agree with what you are saying about leaving kids to do the work and being suprised when it's not done but mum is servely disabled and on her own with my sister, she does do her best but the bunnies need alot more than she can give (as I said Mia is 11 but being bought up with a disabled mum she's old for her age and is a bit of a teenager at the moment)....I have broached the subject of letting them go but none of us want that (we do really love them to bits) so we want to exhaust all avenues first... we do love the bunnies and they are well looked after, particularly compared with some horrific set ups I've seen over the years but I'm a firm believer in 2 wrongs don't make a right and that if you can't give any animal an impecable lifestyle then you probably shouldn't be keeping pets- so we are trying to make their life perfect but if we can't get it right soon then we will have to rehome them.

So, this morning I turned over the bark/soil area and bagged up as much poo as I could (we are waiting for a new delivery of bark so a new fresh layer will be down in the next week sometime) and I have created some sunken areas which I have filled wood chippings and hey. I have scattered some food through out as well as their normal pots to allow them to forage a bit more.

Mum says they are more lively in the morning and evenings and are often running about during the night when she looks out on them... so maybe they aren't that bored but I would like ideas of keeping Thomas entertained.... I didn't have time today but I will dig down and line a hole with chicken wire to give him some more digging room.

I had to laugh though... I took out a toilet roll with tissue still on and flopsy immediately decided it was useful and dragged it straight upstairs in the hutch lol so I put a couple more out and then moved all the light weight plant pots from the normal area of play to the patio where they NEVER sit.... I wonder if they are moved tomorrow

My battery on my fone went this morning so got mum to go outside and send me a photo, so this is the only one I have for now which is not great but with the diagram I think it should help make sense.

On the comment about the patio... they never want to sit on the concrete and only ever sit on the bark/soil area which is where they make all the pooey mess, I can never understand this... I they don't even move when it rains, it has to be pretty bad outside before they decide to go indoors???

Thanks for the comments so far, I will continue to make as many changes as we can and hope to make it the best home possible for the bunnies... I don't snap very often but I really did this morning at Mia so fingers crossed she will start to look after her bunnies with help from me and mum and we will be able to keep them.

Thanks again
Laura x

 

[loz83]

ps the blue area is the rabbits area

 

[loz83]

pps... please excuse the scruffy looking patio, thats my muddy feet that have done that this morning... t'is normally very clean

 

[bethepoet]

Just to be clear - I was definitely not suggesting your mum is one of these lazy people who make their kids do it! Not at all, was just saying it's something I really hate.

Does your mum go out with your sister? Maybe they could both go out and have a chat while your sister does her bunny chores and your mum supervises. Make it a social activity? And there could be a set time each day. For example, before she goes to school, feed & change water, then mum sets her off to school, when she comes home from school, restock hay & give veggies while your mum asks her about her day, before she gets inside and just wants to relax and can't be bothered to go out again. I understand your mum struggles but if she's just going out and not having to do the actual work herself and it's just until your sister gets into the habit of it, maybe that would be OK?

That's a good idea about the sunken areas for toileting. Maybe you could get some underbed storage boxes and bury them in those areas, so instead of digging the whole area of earth up, you could pick out the boxes and just empty them. Also the food scattering is an excellent idea, I wish I could do that for my inside bunnies

It sounds like because you've got them directly on the earth, they're getting to indulge their natural instincts and act more like wild rabbits. All in all, it's obvious that you're all doing your best and just want them to be happy, with is the basis for a very happy group of bunnies.

 

[Dh1971]

Well I think your set up looks fabulous and you obviously do your best for your buns.

I wold be worried about intruders from above though, not just foxes but cats aswell.

 

[Geoff's people]

Sweet heart, that run ISN'T fox proof, and I cannot imagine how your buns have made it this far if foxes are being fed at the house.

If it were me, I would slab the area the buns have to match your lovely patio, It will stop any escapees, AND be easy peasy to sweep poo up from!

I would also take the bunny fence to the same height as the garden fence and then put a 'lid' on to stop foxes and cats.
I would also replace the wire with weld mesh as buns CAN chew through that, trust me on this one:lol:

You have the potential for a FAB and SAFE bunny haven there:thumb:

 

[loz83]

I wold be worried about intruders from above though, not just foxes but cats aswell

:lol: the genuine worry is the foxes but you should see how scared the cats are of the rabbits... its the funniest thing you will ever see, we have tonnes of cats in the area and next door in particular have 4, one of which is the areas big boss cat, i've seen him fight and he's not to be messed with but I've also seen him attempt a snarl at Thomas oh boy he didnt try again, Thomas stood straight up to him and thumped so loud Nobby just ran a mile (yes they did call him that). And mums cat Alfie is hilarious, he wont even go near the back garden, if you open the conservatory doors he runs off, he acts like you just put the hoover on... Ive tried holding him and taking him outside but he just claws at you and scarpers so funny, he loves to be babied but not if its near the back yard.

On the fox and the fencing note though, doubling up the fence is a good idea, plus, I just looked at the price of some clear plastic roof sheeting and its not too bad, I may cover some areas with this as I really do worry about them sitting out all the time... mum did have to lock them up last winter on the coldest nights as they would sit out all night huddled together... WEIRDO'S, all i can say there, their hutch is super warm in the winter with a huge full weather risistant cover with zip panels for doors and we put sheets underneath to keep the cold out, bottom is fully open so plenty of air getting in.
so basically, I could solve the fox problem and my peace of mind about the cold by taking the fencing up all the way, the mesh looks expensive though, do you think I could get away with moving the current chicken wire fencing to the top half and have the stronger mesh on the bottom half and on the top (wherever I don't put plastic sheeting that is) this would save a bit of money and save wasting the current wire fence.

in addition I may be able to do the top soil idea with the high fence as Thomas wouldn't get out...hmm it gets better!! By the way, Lola, Lucy and Flopsy have no intentions of getting out and even when the gate is open are happy basking on their own patch, so its just that rascal Thomas I need to keep contained.

I love the idea of sinking litter tubs, why didn't I think of that.. thank you

And I like the idea of getting mum to go out with Mia, I think at the moment she gives up, struggles and goes out herself and on the days she's too ill it just becomes a tiring ordeal of shouting and "i'll do it later"s :lol:

Oh and no offence taken by the way for any of the comments, we really are animal lovers too and can understand any concerns people have and didn't take any comments the wrong way


thanks so much for the help so far I will keep you updated with the run :wave: