Move away from Muesli

[SarahP]

For me the danger of seeing pellets as a healthy food is that, when there are gut problems, pellets (other than the volume of them) are so often not seen as a potential issue, whilst every other possibility is explored. Over the years there have been more than a few people on here whose rabbits' guts cannot tolerate pellets of any brand.

I think we all agree that dried food should be a very small proportion of the diet. I personally just don't like the perception of pellets as healthy and muesli as bad.

 

[Zoobec]

I have been told, i’m cruel, abusive and not caring about rabbit welfare because I feed a small handful of rabbit royale once a day. It’s a bit like the vaccine causes autism arguement, many want to believe it although it is now disproven and they will never be open to other possibilities.

:shock: how awful Obviously these people don’t know you, what you do and how healthy your rabbits are!

 

[MightyMax]

For me the danger of seeing pellets as a healthy food is that, when there are gut problems, pellets (other than the volume of them) are so often not seen as a potential issue, whilst every other possibility is explored. Over the years there have been more than a few people on here whose rabbits' guts cannot tolerate pellets of any brand.

I think we all agree that dried food should be a very small proportion of the diet. I personally just don't like the perception of pellets as healthy and muesli as bad.

I agree :thumb:

One of the rabbits I adopted was being kept in a tiny cage and fed only on muesli. No hay or veg, just muesli and water. I guess in his case it might have been better for him to have bowl of pellets every day than just picking out the stuff he wanted to eat and ending up with massive health problems

 

[tonibun]

If you feed the correct amount the rabbits eat all of it. I don't see how pellets can be nutritionally better than Muesli if it's all eaten.

 

[MightyMax]

If you feed the correct amount the rabbits eat all of it. I don't see how pellets can be nutritionally better than Muesli if it's all eaten.

That's exactly the point. Every rabbit that has come my way via being unwanted that has been fed on muesli has had the bowl topped up and the bits left thrown away. A very unbalanced diet. Pellets would mean that that wouldn't happen, even if the rabbit was overfed, or fed nothing else.

 

[halfpenny]

That's exactly the point. Every rabbit that has come my way via being unwanted that has been fed on muesli has had the bowl topped up and the bits left thrown away. A very unbalanced diet. Pellets would mean that that wouldn't happen, even if the rabbit was overfed, or fed nothing else.

How do you know that, the study did not include a pellet only option, so it cannot be stated that a pellet only diet would be any better, according to the study!

 

[SarahP]

How do you know that, the study did not include a pellet only option, so it cannot be stated that a pellet only diet would be any better, according to the study!

Yes, it really was a strange study, given that glaring omission. The only thing that can be said for sure is that there is no selective feeding with pellets.

And yet so many people feed muesli to hamsters, rats etc. Why are we more worried about selective feeding with rabbits and guinea pigs?

 

[Glingle]

I agree that the focus should be unlimited hay rather than a pellets versus muesli debate. Burgess Excel is recommended and sold by a lot of vets and yet my rabbits ended up with sticky bums on it. I now give them oxbow pellets which they do well on. It's the quantity of concentrated food whether muesli or pellets that seems more important to me. I think different buns have different needs and so different diets suit them. I'd support a campaign to make better quality hay easily available rather than those horrible brown dusty packs that you get at pet shops and supermarkets.

 

[MightyMax]

How do you know that, the study did not include a pellet only option, so it cannot be stated that a pellet only diet would be any better, according to the study!

Of course I don't know that selectively eating from a muesli diet is unbalanced, I was making an assumption based on the fact that the pellet diet cannot be selectively eaten

 

[halfpenny]

Of course I don't know that selectively eating from a muesli diet is unbalanced, I was making an assumption based on the fact that the pellet diet cannot be selectively eaten

It’s a logical assumption, but it can’t be said as being true without being in the study. I have to say, I wonder if it was included and the results were omitted because they didn’t give the results desired. There is no way it shouldn’t have been included if muesli only was, it’s poor research otherwise.

 

[halfpenny]

:shock: how awful Obviously these people don’t know you, what you do and how healthy your rabbits are!

Yes, it really hurt. I’ve lost few rabbits to dental issues, unless they came with them. I had 2 Dutches who were fed rabbit royale and hay from 8 weeks old when I got them. They died at 8.5 and 9, both to suspected cancer and one needed a dental at the age of 8. Sorrels came to us aged 18 months, she lived to 12.5 being fed rabbit royale and hay.
It is only anecdotal, but i’ve had about 50 rabbits over the years and had very few ileus issues, few dental issues other than those born with ones or so old teeth have fallen out. Over the 25 years i’ve had rabbits they are generally reaching an older age due to neutering and better knowledge on my part, all have been fed rabbit royale, except when I thought about changing to excel and quite a few ended up producing soft and excess ceacotrophs.
In my memory, nuggets are fairly new, when I started keeping rabbits muesli was the most commonly found feed, so yes, of course if fed only it, issues would occur but I would love to know how feeding only pellets would compare.

 

[CwningenBach]

Interesting thread...

When I joined here, everyone was very passionately pro Science Selective pellets (whilst always saying not too much) and then FibaFirst came out, which people also loved (not necessarily more than Selective, dunno, just loved) and muesli was considered bleaker than bleak.

This thread certainly hasn’t gone in the direction I expected!

Purpose of this post is... is the feeling on the forum changing, or is it generally still SS, FF are the best fried foods in reasonable quantities?

My bunnies diets are shaped around what I learned here so just asking for an update

PS: Hello all!

 

[SarahP]

Interesting thread...

When I joined here, everyone was very passionately pro Science Selective pellets (whilst always saying not too much) and then FibaFirst came out, which people also loved (not necessarily more than Selective, dunno, just loved) and muesli was considered bleaker than bleak.

This thread certainly hasn’t gone in the direction I expected!

Purpose of this post is... is the feeling on the forum changing, or is it generally still SS, FF are the best fried foods in reasonable quantities?

My bunnies diets are shaped around what I learned here so just asking for an update ��

PS: Hello all!

Yes, this is my point too. When I got bunnies, everyone talked about SS as a great food, albeit not to feed it in large quantities. So when my bunnies had awful stasis issues, I just kept reducing the SS pellets down and tried other higher fibre pellets (eg Oxbow), with no better results. I would never have dreamed of trying muesli, because it was seen as such a no-no for rabbits on here at the time. I eventually found they improved on a no pellets at all diet.

 

[MightyMax]

Interesting thread...

When I joined here, everyone was very passionately pro Science Selective pellets (whilst always saying not too much) and then FibaFirst came out, which people also loved (not necessarily more than Selective, dunno, just loved) and muesli was considered bleaker than bleak.

This thread certainly hasn’t gone in the direction I expected!

Purpose of this post is... is the feeling on the forum changing, or is it generally still SS, FF are the best fried foods in reasonable quantities?

My bunnies diets are shaped around what I learned here so just asking for an update

PS: Hello all!

Hi there :wave:

Well for one I am not a fan of SS :lol:

I think we all find the one that suits us, our pockets, and our rabbits best of all. To get the best poo output you understand, which seems to be the bedrock of RU

BTW - I wouldn't fry the pellets - heaven only knows how many calories that would absorb

 

[SarahP]

I didn't spot that. Bunny fry up! :lol:

 

[honeybunny]

there is a rabbit care page on Facebok which is great, except if you try to have a discussion about feeding and say anything other than feed SS, the post gets deleted. Rather silly and spoils the otherwise great page.
Some rabbits have choked on SS and the thinner type tube shaped pellets, but it is a good food and rabbits can choke on small bits of anything.
The main importance in a rabbit diet is finding one that suits the rabbits needs and their digestive system. If you feed a huge bowl of cheap muesli and not much else then not great for most rabbits, although there will be people who say they've done this and had rabbits live to 12 !
Some rabbits have the runs with Burgess pellets, some don't like A and P, some over produce caecals on any pellet. So small amount of dried food, pellets are best if your rabbit likes them and they don't upset their tum. Large amounts of hay, forage if you have access to it and a good handful of veg/herbs

 

[MightyMax]

there is a rabbit care page on Facebok which is great, except if you try to have a discussion about feeding and say anything other than feed SS, the post gets deleted. Rather silly and spoils the otherwise great page.
Some rabbits have choked on SS and the thinner type tube shaped pellets, but it is a good food and rabbits can choke on small bits of anything.
The main importance in a rabbit diet is finding one that suits the rabbits needs and their digestive system. If you feed a huge bowl of cheap muesli and not much else then not great for most rabbits, although there will be people who say they've done this and had rabbits live to 12 !
Some rabbits have the runs with Burgess pellets, some don't like A and P, some over produce caecals on any pellet. So small amount of dried food, pellets are best if your rabbit likes them and they don't upset their tum. Large amounts of hay, forage if you have access to it and a good handful of veg/herbs

I've always thought of the food pyramid/triangle as a memorable way to learn the quantities regarding feeding

 

[loobers25]

Im just having a little think and reflect out loud here. ..

I have been feeding my bunnies burgess excel for years.

The reason I orginally chose excel for my rabbits was when it first came out it was the luxury expensive option at the pet shops. I felt like I was giving my bunnies something better. It's campaigns saying it's recommend by vets, it's always for sale at vets and has a good selection of hays etc.

To a novice owner you would get the impression the point of pellets is to forfill the rabbits nutriental requirements in a simple way.

Being completely honest with you...I have always been told that muesli is bad etc however gave my rabbits some treats I would never even dream of giving now...those corn sticks, yoghurt drops, all colourful treats you get in Pet shops. Although they where only given as treats, I didn't see the problem as why would they make these treats if they weren't suitable for bunnies. It's only as I have got older and been able to research on the Internet that I was able to find out the correct way of feeding rabbits . I was only young but absolutely adored my bunnies like I do now and bought them these things because I wanted to spoil them. I am talking about bunnies I had when I was a little girl many years ago.

As for excel upon reflection I have had a bridge rabbit (bam) who now I can see was intolerant of it. However in the past I only reduced the pellets instead of changing them as it was never to be known that excel could be bad. When I say intolerant I mean producing lots and lots of uneaten cecos. This includes my current bun maple, she started having it along side Toby and again the ceco problem.

It's only since joining RU I have had the knowledge and the confidence to go almost pellet free. My buns are eating digestive health stick followed by forage and hay all day. I can honestly say that since cutting out pellets the bunnies are eating more hay - all day and night, large golden poops, lots of poops, the improvement has been unbelievable. I have learnt to actually think what a rabbit should be eating in the wild. The thread about thumps stasis rabbits having leafs and twigs and branches have all come in to play here and since I have no uneaten cecos from maple.

I think there should be a campaign to get rid of all those colourful treats they sell in the pet shops. I know pets at home do now sell good forage mixes but still sell all the rubbish stuff. There should be a campaign on hay, good quality hay, unlimited hay. I only learnt about forage since joining RU.

I never considered SS because of rabbits chocking. I have never asked JC his opinion on pellets but when marty (my chinchilla ) had his check up he said pellets are a waste of time. He said hay hay and forage and that pellets where designed for fur chinchillas in cages. I would be interested to hear his opinion on rabbit pellets. If Toby would eat veg I would have him off fibresticks completely.

Thank you RU for all the knowledge I have today


Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

 

[Leannean27]

Can I ask a quick question on the pellet/ muesli debate. I have always fed Burgess Excel for the same reason as loobers. I have had buns from the pet shop and rspca and they have always been on a pellet food. Now I have recently purchased 1 bunny, and soon to collect a second from 2 separate breeders who are both feeding a muesli/ rabbit royale mix - is this a breeder thing or just coincidence do you think?

 

[MightyMax]

Can I ask a quick question on the pellet/ muesli debate. I have always fed Burgess Excel for the same reason as loobers. I have had buns from the pet shop and rspca and they have always been on a pellet food. Now I have recently purchased 1 bunny, and soon to collect a second from 2 separate breeders who are both feeding a muesli/ rabbit royale mix - is this a breeder thing or just coincidence do you think?

It may not be true of all breeders, but certainly some that I know buy muesli in bulk because it's cheaper than buying pellets.

Feeding muesli or pellets is a very contentious issue, as you will see if you read this thread, but a Rabbit Specialist Vet (retired) has said the following if you'd like to read the link. Obviously take it in the context of all the other replies on this thread


https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/free-food-for-rabbits/the-problem-with-muesli-mixes-1