Long story, advice needed.

[Simon]

I have a bond to do soon. Before I do it I'd like to hear a few opinions because I want this to be the last one I do. I have 2 males and 2 females living in my enclosure. They get on great. I have a mother (moogle) and daughter (hazel) living in a temporary hutch next to it. All are neutered apart from hazel as she isn't old enough yet. I know I can get them all together but I'm worried about having 4 females with 2 males. Ideally I'd have 3 males and 3 females but I'd rather add two males than re home a rabbit. I've just re homed a litter because I didn't want to overcrowd the enclosure and I'd struggle with potential vets bills but I will put 2 more males in there if necessary. I started with 2 Rabbits (penny and button's) I got them ready bonded from the rspca. 6 mounts later I asked for help from a local rescue to add another two but the lady there couldn't find any rabbits that penny and buttons would accept. buttons was particularly aggressive towards the males so i decided that I would try to add 2 females. I found moogle on the free ads shortly after. She was a 1 year old unhappy house rabbit that didn't really like people when I took her in but it didn't take me long to bring her round. It took me 3 weeks, 8 hours a day every day to bond her with penny and buttons. I think it was 4 or 5 months later I got Ellie. I got Ellie from a lovely pet shop. She was 8 weeks old. All my rabbits up to this point had been rescues aged between 6 months to a year so I wanted a baby to put in there. Buttons loved her immediately but it took the does 2 weeks to accept her. They lived together as a 4 for a couple of months when a fight broke out between penny and moogle. I don't know who started it but it was vicious. penny ended up with a rip in her back leg and had to be taken to the vets. I tried briefly to re bond them but it didn't work and I didn't want any more injuries so I had to re home moogle. Tears were shed. I thought I can't go through that again so I didn't get any more rabbits. My sister took moogle in. She also got a black lionhead buck called buster. My sister has 3 kids two under 5. The younger ones let the rabbits out one day, Moogle ended up pregnant and back with me along with the daddy buster. I had buster neutered as soon as I got him. And had a very difficult bond with the others. It took 5 weeks. Moogle had 6 kits, 4 were re homed with family. I kept the only female to stay with mum and one was re homed by a rescue. I built them all hutches (apart from the rescue bun) and didn't ask a penny for them.Should I add two more bucks so they all have there own partners? Now like I said before I am confident that I can get them all to live together initially but I don't want it to kick off again like it did last time. I think moogle has been through enough already. If the 4 were in a big hutch I'd leave them as they are and build the girls there own big hutch but my enclosure is fantastic for them so I'd rather them all be in there together.

 

[huppie]

sorry, I have never done a group bond but thought I'd wish you luck and bump the thread for you :wave:

 

[Simon]

sorry, I have never done a group bond but thought I'd wish you luck and bump the thread for you :wave:

thanks huppie, I suppose these are hard questions to answer with the group being so big. I won't have any trouble bonding them I just don't know weather having 4 females living with 2 males will work long term. At the minute penny and buttons are married and buster and ellie are married though they all clean each other as a group and get on great.

 

[prettylupin]

No me neither, but from what I do know - there is never any certain way of telling if it will work or not - it's just a matter of matching the right temperaments and making sure all are neutered and you use a neutral environment as for any other bond. Good luck if you go ahead with it

 

[Simon]

No me neither, but from what I do know - there is never any certain way of telling if it will work or not - it's just a matter of matching the right temperaments and making sure all are neutered and you use a neutral environment as for any other bond. Good luck if you go ahead with it

Thank you.

 

[prettylupin]

I think there are a few experienced multiple bonders on here somewhere! Also Bobtails rescue in Surrey are quite experienced at this...i'd recommend them and am sure they'd happily advise by email. They have helped me in the past with another issue.
http://www.bobtailsrescue.org.uk/care2.asp?newsID=14

 

[janice]

There is only one way to find out and that is try. Often bonds that are anticipated to be difficult can work out easy and those you anticipate to be straight forward which makes things difficult to know what to do.

 

[Simon]

Thanks for the replies. The main reason I posted this thread was to find out weather it's best to keep the does and bucks in equal numbers. If the general opinion is that it is then I'll adopt two bucks and bond them all together. I think what I'm going to do is start to bond the rabbits I have first then watch the does behaviour closely for jelousey over the bucks. Buttons, Penny and Ellie got on really well as a three but Ellie more or less claimed buster as soon as she saw him and I could tell before hand that she wanted her own buck. If i get the same feeling with the other 2 doe's I'll have to adopt a couple of bucks for them. The enclosure should be big enough but if it's not I can always make it bigger. I think If I do have to adopt more I'll take on the older rabbits that have been long term rescues this time. If anyone else has anymore advice I'd still be happy to hear it. thanks again

ps, thanks for the link prettylupin. I'll email them, the bit about colonies was interesting.

 

[HCB]

Im not 100% sure as i havent kept a group until now, and mine arent completely bonded yet either.

But i know someone who kept 3 females and 1 male in a group, and they were fine. I know its not the same as your potential group, but the female to male ratio would be the same.

As the two you're wanting to bond with them are already bonded, they have their own 'partners' although not in the same sense as the others. Ellie might have just wanted another rabbit regardless of gender, as they were in a 3 she may have felt a bit left out, so adding buster may have given her a rabbit freind.

I have NO experiance with this so no advise really, but i would say its worth a shot. If it doesnt work could you not just keep the groups as they are? Or like you said, get 2 new males. Would you keep them as 2 4s or one 8? I think the more you have, the more complicated the realtionships get and the harder it is to bond, and it may upset the current bondings.

Definately try and get someone with big groups advise though, they'll know a lot more than me just speculating! Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[Simon]

Im not 100% sure as i havent kept a group until now, and mine arent completely bonded yet either.

But i know someone who kept 3 females and 1 male in a group, and they were fine. I know its not the same as your potential group, but the female to male ratio would be the same.

As the two you're wanting to bond with them are already bonded, they have their own 'partners' although not in the same sense as the others. Ellie might have just wanted another rabbit regardless of gender, as they were in a 3 she may have felt a bit left out, so adding buster may have given her a rabbit freind.

I have NO experiance with this so no advise really, but i would say its worth a shot. If it doesnt work could you not just keep the groups as they are? Or like you said, get 2 new males. Would you keep them as 2 4s or one 8? I think the more you have, the more complicated the realtionships get and the harder it is to bond, and it may upset the current bondings.

Definately try and get someone with big groups advise though, they'll know a lot more than me just speculating! Good luck with whatever you decide to do!

You have made some very good points there. Thanks HCB. I know that the 4 will be fine regardless as there bond is far too strong to break. The reason I want to get all the rabbits together is because the enclosure I've built for them. I'd feel bad if moogle and hazel were living in lesser accommodation full time.

 

[HCB]

Is the enclosure you're talking about the one on the video? If so that is definately plenty big enough for the 6, or even potentially 8. They could all get away from each other if they wanted, so if you could initially bond them, then they have plenty of room to do whatever they want away from each other.

As i said, i dont have experiance of that type of thing. If it was me i probablly would want to try bond the 2 with them, as you said its a great enclosure for them. Its worth a shot before rushing out and going to get another 2, the costs of an extra 2 will add up, so if you could just do the ones youve got that would be ideal.

The group my friend had was an unrelated male and female, and then 2 sisters. I dont know if that affects it in anyway, but the 2 sisters seemed to be a pair and the male and other female a pair, and your 2 are mother and daughter so maybe it will work, just take longer due to the number.

 

[Simon]

Is the enclosure you're talking about the one on the video? If so that is definately plenty big enough for the 6, or even potentially 8. They could all get away from each other if they wanted, so if you could initially bond them, then they have plenty of room to do whatever they want away from each other.

As i said, i dont have experiance of that type of thing. If it was me i probablly would want to try bond the 2 with them, as you said its a great enclosure for them. Its worth a shot before rushing out and going to get another 2, the costs of an extra 2 will add up, so if you could just do the ones youve got that would be ideal.

The group my friend had was an unrelated male and female, and then 2 sisters. I don't know if that affects it in anyway, but the 2 sisters seemed to be a pair and the male and other female a pair, and your 2 are mother and daughter so maybe it will work, just take longer due to the number.

Yeah it's the same enclosure. I can see what you mean, there is allot of relevance in your friends situation and mine. The initial bond will be difficult but I have plenty of experience with group bonding now so I know it will be possible. stressful for all involved but possible. Thanks, you've been a great help.