Leah - Stasis Relapse? :(

[gemnomnom]

Hi all,

First of all thank you to everybody who saw my last thread on here regarding the bout of stasis my little Leah had, especially for your help and kind wishes. Unfortunately Leah has just taken a turn for the worse and I fear it may be a relapse of stasis.

So quick summary, we took Leah to the vet on 19/10 with stasis and she returned home on 22/10 but not any better as motility drugs were stopped and only vetergesic + metacam were being given. On the night of 26/10 I syringed her peppermint and pellet slurry, heard her tummy gurgle into life, and then immediately afterwards she passed this MASSIVE, STINKY POO (makes me smirk still thinking about it!) and then lots of fur entangled with poo thereafter. By 28/10 her poo was back to normal, with no fur, just slightly tear drop shaped. By 30/10 the pointy shape had gone and they were large, circular, golden poos. We had stopped Leah's medication on 29/10.

We took this as an opportunity to improve Leah's diet. Previously I don't think we were feeding her enough veg - we were feeding her two handfuls of pellets a day and a small portion of veg once a day, which wasn't usually a leafy green veg either. Since her appetite improved early last week, we had fed her two cups of leafy green veg (1 cup cavolo nero in the morning and 1 cup salad leaves - non iceburg; usually frisee + raddichio) and only 1/4 cup pellets. I should say at this point too I googled what is the correct proportion of veg to body weight and got a massive variety of answers - so I would also appreciate clarification on what the correct/best amount is.

Everything was great until yesterday when I came home and noticed she'd done some caecotrophs that she hadn't eaten, about four. Later through the evening she did some more which she didn't eat. I know the large amount of veg can cause this, so I stopped the veg and made sure she had plenty of hay. So the last veg she had was yesterday morning, she had eaten two cavolo nero leaves one after another so I know she was fine then.

Yesterday night I put down some dandelions and nuggets for her and was saddened/shocked to see she hadn't eaten them this morning.

Through today she's nibbled a bit of hay (I've given her meadow + timothy) but no nuggets and no poo since about 9am today. I haven't offered any veg up until just now, I've given her bramble leaves, which she is munching through quite heartily - a good sign. I've also given her the last bit of metacam + metaclop + zantac we had left over from last week about an hour ago so perhaps that is kicking in?

I know stasis can be caused by not eating enough hay/crude fibre. We give her fresh hay every day but I think she was going off this, as a lot of it was getting wet from her water bowl through the day (I think she must have been knocking the bowl, it is defo not wet from pee), even though there would have been fresh and dry sections available. And throughout today there has been plenty of dry and fresh hay for a fact as I made sure to keep it well away from the water.

A difference from the stasis last time is that we listened to her tummy and there is gurgling this time as opposed to a complete standstill last time. We have also noticed it a lot earlier, given treatment and have been keeping a closer eye on her given the previous situation.

I am wondering if it has anything to do with the fact the medication was stopped a week ago - would the effects only be wearing off now? It was pointed out by posters on this forum last time that Leah wasn't checked for dental spurs - could this be the reason why stasis has reoccurred so soon? Or is this an unrelated bout of stasis - possibly due to the wet hay scenario or the drastic change in diet, if that causes stasis?

As always your help is so appreciated!!

EDIT: I have just watched her eat 12 blackberry leaves cut in half, of her own volition (rather than being hand fed) and a decent amount of hay. Whilst eating the hay she appeared to be burrowing with her nose to get a specific strand each time? Anyway, no poo as of yet. I really hope this means we have caught it in time and it doesn't go on as long as before...

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Gut stasis is usually a secondary symptom as opposed to an illness in it's own right. For example any type of pain can case a slow down in gut motility. If she does have any Dental issues this may be playing a part in her recurrent GI tract problems. Hay should make up 80%-90% of a Rabbit's diet, hay is much more important than any type of Veg. If Leah is not a good hay eater it may be that this is causing the problems.

Personally I would want Leah examined by a Rabbit Savvy Vet. If there are Dental problems brewing then her gut problems are unlikely to resolve until her teeth are sorted out. Just giving prokinetics and analgesia may be addressing a symptom and not the primary problem.

I hope Leah feels better soon xx

 

[Angie B]

I'm sorry to hear that Leah has had a relapse, that must be very worrying for you. I sympathise because Thumper is quite prone to stasis and has quite a few checks including an ultrasound on her tummy during an episode, which haven't shown anything up. She hasn't had any dental x-rays yet but they are on the cards if necessary. She does have the start of spurs, as does Coco, and in fact is going to the vet on Monday to have those checked (although she is eating very well; it's just a check-up).

I don't know if you are aware but some veg can cause gas in bunnies and that alone will go on to cause stasis. Neither of our two girls get veg anymore which did initially seem to help but sadly this has not stopped the stasis episodes though, so you can take or leave that bit of this post! Don't suddenly cut it out altogether though, if you do decide to do that, reduce it slowly over time and then stop.

My vet was quite perplexed as to why Thumper was getting stasis so regularly (it's a good job she's insured!). She rang someone else in York who specialises in bunnies who get stasis etc (deals with them practically daily) for advice. I didn't want to take Thumper there because it's over an hour away in the car and she detests even the short 5 min trip to the vet (pants, moults, goes really quiet) so a trip at over an hour is out of the question. Anyway, they decided between them that Thumper may simply need more fibre. She (and her sister Coco) now have a few (only half a dozen, literally) extra pellets in a morning with their breakfast which is a pinch of muesli, they have readigrass which is about 19% fibre content, they have 3 sticks each of fibafirst sticks morning and night, dried herbs at night and of course unlimited hay. They also from September had quite a lot of bramble and still get some now but of course it's rapidly disappearing (must go foraging actually!). And so far, so good.

However, all of the above is on vet advice. It may not suit Leah but it's certainly worth mentioning to your vet, see what he/she says.

Good luck!

 

[gemnomnom]

Hi all,

Late last night my OH pointed out to me that we think Leah had eaten a HUGE bit of wallpaper during the day! So whilst we will certainly be taking her to a rabbit savvy vet to check for dental spurs we don't think this was the cause - for now. We think the wallpaper had caused a slight blockage in her yesterday.

I've seen that eating wallpaper can be a sign they are not getting enough fibre - which I think also ties in with not eating her caecotrophs yesterday, that she was getting too much veg and not enough hay. Her poos now have come out quite golden - which I've heard from my friend is a good sign, as it shows a good amount of fibre? But how fibrous is wallpaper? :/

Luckily last night she did about 6 small poos, followed by about 40, and then about 50+ during the night. They have gotten a bit bigger this morning. They are not the dark, tiny, hard, mishapen ones that happened at the beginning of the last stasis episode, but more like those that happened towards the end right before they got bigger and then back to normal - which I am very grateful for. I cried my eyes out yesterday at the thought she was having stasis again, especially as yesterday hadn't been a great day for other reasons anyway.

Also, I'm not sure if this is wallpaper related but she has done lots of brown and red pee? I've seen this can be related to carrot/carotine but I have not fed her any of that recently - only bramble leaves, not sure if this would have the same effect.

I said after the last stasis episode that I want to get Leah insured, however I am worried now that stasis will forever be counted as a pre existing condition and therefore excluded, and even so any condition which occurs too soon after getting the insurance won't be covered. It has only been 3 weeks since the last episode!!

Thanks for the advice regarding all those fibre filled goodies, I will go away now and research them. Where do you purchase them from, a pet store or online or elsewhere?

We are down to our last (possibly not even full) dose of motility drugs and analgesia which I was hoping to continue her on until her poos returned to 100% normal. I am really dreading phoning my vet and asking to pick some up, as I don't want her to have another examination there but I doubt they'd just dispense them. Is there anywhere else these can be obtained?

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Hi all,

Late last night my OH pointed out to me that we think Leah had eaten a HUGE bit of wallpaper during the day! So whilst we will certainly be taking her to a rabbit savvy vet to check for dental spurs we don't think this was the cause - for now. We think the wallpaper had caused a slight blockage in her yesterday.

I've seen that eating wallpaper can be a sign they are not getting enough fibre - which I think also ties in with not eating her caecotrophs yesterday, that she was getting too much veg and not enough hay. Her poos now have come out quite golden - which I've heard from my friend is a good sign, as it shows a good amount of fibre? But how fibrous is wallpaper? :/

Luckily last night she did about 6 small poos, followed by about 40, and then about 50+ during the night. They have gotten a bit bigger this morning. They are not the dark, tiny, hard, mishapen ones that happened at the beginning of the last stasis episode, but more like those that happened towards the end right before they got bigger and then back to normal - which I am very grateful for. I cried my eyes out yesterday at the thought she was having stasis again, especially as yesterday hadn't been a great day for other reasons anyway.

Also, I'm not sure if this is wallpaper related but she has done lots of brown and red pee? I've seen this can be related to carrot/carotine but I have not fed her any of that recently - only bramble leaves, not sure if this would have the same effect.

I said after the last stasis episode that I want to get Leah insured, however I am worried now that stasis will forever be counted as a pre existing condition and therefore excluded, and even so any condition which occurs too soon after getting the insurance won't be covered. It has only been 3 weeks since the last episode!!

Thanks for the advice regarding all those fibre filled goodies, I will go away now and research them. Where do you purchase them from, a pet store or online or elsewhere?

We are down to our last (possibly not even full) dose of motility drugs and analgesia which I was hoping to continue her on until her poos returned to 100% normal. I am really dreading phoning my vet and asking to pick some up, as I don't want her to have another examination there but I doubt they'd just dispense them. Is there anywhere else these can be obtained?

They are prescription only medications and they can only be obtained from a Vet who has examined the Rabbit. It really is important that prokinetics are not given until an abdominal examination has been done. If there were to be a full GI tract obstraction giving prokinetics could have a tragic outcome

Personally I would want to try to locate a Rabbit savvy Vet and get Leah checked over again. Having 2 episodes of gut stasis so close together is a concern and I would want to try to find out why, if at all possible. Eating wallpaper may have been the cause of this episode, but then again eating wallpaper may be a sign of a 'sluggish' cecum. This can result in recurrent episodes of gut stasis and eventually cecal impaction. The condition is insidious in onset and at first symptoms can be very similar to Dental problems. A classic feature is craving fibre, but of the 'wrong' type. Not hay, but cardboard, newspaper, wallpaper etc.

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/Caecal_Impaction.htm

Red urine can occur due to porphyrins and other plant pigments, so the brambles were probably the cause.

 

[Bunny Buddy]

I said after the last stasis episode that I want to get Leah insured, however I am worried now that stasis will forever be counted as a pre existing condition and therefore excluded, and even so any condition which occurs too soon after getting the insurance won't be covered. It has only been 3 weeks since the last episode!!

If you are considering insurance then I'd advise you to get it done ASAP, you can run though all the "what ifs" after you have insured and decide to cancel if you change your mind but the sooner you do it the more chance of not ending up with pre-existing conditions.

I adopted Rudy 7.5 years ago and he had about 5 or 6 gas episodes a year requiring vet treatment for a couple of years and I hadn't insured him. I thought he would never be covered for it. I did eventually insure him but he had loads of exclusions. I looked into it this year and Petplan said if he was free from it for 12 months they would drop the exclusion - he'd not had any GI episodes for 3 years at that point so now at the grand age of 8 he is covered for GI issues. He however had dental treatment for a couple of spurs at 1 year old and will never be covered for 'dental, or facial abscesses":evil:

For your rabbit, it might turn out that the stasis is secondary to something else in which case if the 'something else' hasn't been discovered it would still be covered as the stasis will probably go down as a gastrointestinal issue as it's not possible to say otherwise, at this stage.

Artie had intermittent stasis episodes for about a year that were just 'treated' and never looked into beyond gut issues until I took him to a rabbit savvy vet and it turned out he had bladder sludge (which may or may not have been the underlying cause). I didn't insure him as I thought because of the GI issues insurance wouldn't be cost effective.... After Artie had the bladder sludge problems he went on to have kidney stones (EC related), in his lifetime his vet fees were approximately £5,000! The experience with Artie is now why all my bunnies are insured.