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I have a problem

Lord Trellis

Lord Trellis

Mama Doe
I bought some hay that was contaminated and sadly took the lives of several of my rabbits which has traumatized me so much that I don't trust hay anymore.

I threw away all the hay in my house and cleared everything out in my bunny enclosures. I know hay makes up 80% of a rabbits diet but right now I can not feed any hay to my remaining bunnies without the fear that they will be poisoned again.

I bought some fresh hay after the ordeal with the poisoning from the previous hay I chucked away only to find it contains the same stuff so that has gone too.

I need to get some decent hay. Where can I find hay that isn't contaminated with poisoners weeds?

I'm seriously thinking about cutting out hay altogether because I'm not prepared to watch anymore rabbits die. Rabbits can live for years without hay as long as they are getting plenty of fiber for there digestive system.

I thought about picking grass. I could pick huge amounts of grass weekly but somebody told me its not advisable. I know that grass would have to be slowly introduced to there diet otherwise it could cause fatal digestive issues.

My plan is to pick grass bring it home and wash it all in the bath tub with just water and then dry it out on a rack and then feed that to my rabbits instead. Would this be a good idea?
 
Rabbits can't be without hay I'm afraid. Lots of people have suggested where they get their hay from on your other threads if you can find the posts, I've got my hay from hayandstraw.co.uk I buy the ings hay and have for 10 years no problems at all. I think you would have a lot of problems picking enough grass and drying it, plus you don't know what the grass has come into contact with.

I'm sorry you've been through such a tough time loosing the rabbits, did a post mortem come back to say it was the hay? I know it's hard not to question everything but if not I wouldn't have thought it was the hay?
 
It was 100% the hay.

I couldn't remember exactly what thread it was, I'll have to have a search through my posts to find it. I'll have a look at hayandstraw.co.uk
 
Lord Trellis said:
It was 100% the hay.

I couldn't remember exactly what thread it was, I'll have to have a search through my posts to find it. I'll have a look at hayandstraw.co.uk
Click to expand...
Where was this hay from? Would be good to know so we don't accidentally buy it!

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
 
Lord Trellis said:
I bought some hay that was contaminated and sadly took the lives of several of my rabbits which has traumatized me so much that I don't trust hay anymore.

I threw away all the hay in my house and cleared everything out in my bunny enclosures. I know hay makes up 80% of a rabbits diet but right now I can not feed any hay to my remaining bunnies without the fear that they will be poisoned again.

I bought some fresh hay after the ordeal with the poisoning from the previous hay I chucked away only to find it contains the same stuff so that has gone too.

I need to get some decent hay. Where can I find hay that isn't contaminated with poisoners weeds?

I'm seriously thinking about cutting out hay altogether because I'm not prepared to watch anymore rabbits die. Rabbits can live for years without hay as long as they are getting plenty of fiber for there digestive system.

I thought about picking grass. I could pick huge amounts of grass weekly but somebody told me its not advisable. I know that grass would have to be slowly introduced to there diet otherwise it could cause fatal digestive issues.

My plan is to pick grass bring it home and wash it all in the bath tub with just water and then dry it out on a rack and then feed that to my rabbits instead. Would this be a good idea?
Click to expand...

I've never heard of toxic weeds in hay before so i really don't think you need to worry about hay from any other supplier. I've tried picking grasses & drying for my buns & whilst it looked & smelt amazing they didn't agree (ate less). TbH I think eliminating hay from a rabbits diet is a risky strategy, especially if they aren't used to grass & I'd question how far it could be sustained.

A prominent (now retired) rabbit specialist (she's awesome) said she never once came across toxic poisoning of rabbits from plants. "If rabbits were so easy to poison with plants they wouldn't have invented myxi'" Toxicity in rabbits she did see but it was always caused by environmental hazards - lead poisoning from chewing old painted things (pre 1980s I think they banned lead) is one.
 
I get my hay from here https://www.timothyhay.co.uk/ Several other forum members do too. I have never found any weeds in it at all. It is wonderful hay. You can order it online and it will be with you in a couple of days.

I replied also on your other thread in Health. What are these weeds that you think poisoned the babies?
 
Well if it wasn't poisonous weeds then the hay was contaminated by something toxic.

I understand its hard for somebody to not believe it could have been the hay unless they have experienced it themselves and I hope nobody does because its a horrible thing to go trough. All I can say is that it was the hay that killed my rabbits.

The hay was Primrose Lane Dust Extracted 3.5KG Meadow Hay made from a blend of grasses. Produced in the UK for Poundstretcher. This hay was very cheap at 3 pounds and 50p.
 
Here is a photo of what it looks like.

000319-306967-hay-meadow-3.5kg.jpg
 
But why do you think they were poisoned? What did you find in both lots of hay?

How are Lucky, Lacey and Lamb Chop now?
 
So sorry you are going through such a bad time.
Are there any local farms who sell you hay? I have a local lady who sells it, I'm very lucky my bunnies love it. I message and she delivers it to me usually the next day.
 
As long as the hay smells OK (not musty or moudy) and isn't damp, it should be fine. I've only ever had one 'bad' bale in 20 years, and that was due to some sort of small beetle infestation.

Rabbits need hay. Without it, they are highly likely to get ongoing dental issues, which are difficult to deal with and expensive in vet procedures. You can't replicate it in the diet any other way. Fresh grass is fine, but isn't available in winter. Without a large garden, even getting fresh grass in quantity from a safe source (ie chemical-free, away from wild rabbits & dogs, etc) is going to be difficult. Fresh grass needs to be picked daily as it doesn't keep - it ferments unless it is properly dried. Rabbits can't have fermenting grass.

Your baby rabbits were determined to have died from RHD or coccidiosis, according to your vet and the test results you posted on here, neither of which would be attributed to the hay. It's likely that they already had coccidiosis when you got them. Absolutely not your fault - it was whoever dumped them in the first place that caused all the heartache. RHD is managed by annual vaccination.

I get my hay from a local equine supplier. Horse owners won't use dodgy hay as sick horses are very expensive.
 
The hay was dry but was off in color compared to the other bags. The other bags of hay had been fine. When I used the bag of hay that was off in color I thought nothing of it at the time and then the problems started. I was convinced I had a break out of Coccidiosis.

Coccidiosis and poisoning both have similar symptoms. symptoms wear sudden illness followed by death. Some rabbits got diarrhea and others got constipated, and stopped eating and drinking. It was all very sudden it was too late to save them when 3 were dead and the other two almost dead and Lucky had to be put on fluids at the vet. Lacey also started peeing water, Lambchop started showing signs of illness and it was very lucky I spotted the problem otherwise I would have lost all my rabbits for sure.

Once I removed the hay all was good again and Lacey and Lambchop recovered.

None of the hay smelt natural, it all had a slight unnatural plastic smell to it but it was only the off colored pack that killed my rabbits.
 
Shimmer said:
As long as the hay smells OK (not musty or moudy) and isn't damp, it should be fine. I've only ever had one 'bad' bale in 20 years, and that was due to some sort of small beetle infestation.

Rabbits need hay. Without it, they are highly likely to get ongoing dental issues, which are difficult to deal with and expensive in vet procedures. You can't replicate it in the diet any other way. Fresh grass is fine, but isn't available in winter. Without a large garden, even getting fresh grass in quantity from a safe source (ie chemical-free, away from wild rabbits & dogs, etc) is going to be difficult. Fresh grass needs to be picked daily as it doesn't keep - it ferments unless it is properly dried. Rabbits can't have fermenting grass.

Your baby rabbits were determined to have died from RHD or coccidiosis, according to your vet and the test results you posted on here, neither of which would be attributed to the hay. It's likely that they already had coccidiosis when you got them. Absolutely not your fault - it was whoever dumped them in the first place that caused all the heartache. RHD is managed by annual vaccination.

I get my hay from a local equine supplier. Horse owners won't use dodgy hay as sick horses are very expensive.
Click to expand...

Sorry I had already corrected myself in a post above that got deleted. It turned out to be poisoning not Coccidiosis. The vet didn't actually tell me it was any at the time I just said it was Coccidiosis because that was what the symptoms were. The vet I saw wasn't rabbit savvy it was the nearest and only vet I could rush Lucky too, to save his life.
 
I was so ashamed at the time when I found it was poisoning I didn't want to say it was just encase it made me sound like a bad pet owner but the poisoning turned out to be bad hay. I just thought it was best to stick to Coccidiosis as the diagnosis to avoid speculation.
 
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InspectorMorse said:
https://www.msdvetmanual.com/toxicology/mycotoxicoses/overview-of-mycotoxicoses-in-animals






Highly recommend hay from here

https://www.hoptoforage.co.uk/mini-bales

Hay must be stored appropriately in a dry, well ventilated ,cool environment to prevent it ‘sweating’ and mould formation. Hay stored in any form of plastic for a length of time is at risk of going mouldy
Click to expand...

The mold particles I found within the hay suggests some small parts of the bale got moldy before it was dried and packaged but the fact that the entire bale was off color to the rest of the same packaged hay I bought plus the toxic plastic smell it had, the dry mold was just the tip of the iceberg,
 
A long time ago, I purchased hay that smelled like it had mold. I recall reading about microscopic toxins that were produced by some molds that can make bunnies ill.
I also heard of Mitotoxins which can make animals ill.

Young bunnies are vulnerable to gi issues.
 
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Lord Trellis said:
Sorry I had already corrected myself in a post above that got deleted. It turned out to be poisoning not Coccidiosis. The vet didn't actually tell me it was any at the time I just said it was Coccidiosis because that was what the symptoms were. The vet I saw wasn't rabbit savvy it was the nearest and only vet I could rush Lucky too, to save his life.
Click to expand...

Going forward the best thing you can do is focus on providing the appropriate diet for Lacy, Lucky and Lamb Chop. As you are fully aware hay is the most essential part of a Rabbit’s diet in order to keep them healthy. To insure good dental and GI tract health.

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-care-advice/rabbit-diet/hay-grass/

As you care deeply about your Rabbits I am certain you do not want to do anything that will jeopardise their well-being. Regardless of what the cause of the babies’s death was I know that it was traumatic for you but not a reason to do something now which WILL adversely affect the well-being of your remaining Rabbits ie stopping feeding them hay. I believe you know that and you have stated an intention to do so as you are still very upset about the death of the babies and are scared that *if* their death was due to mouldy hay the same thing will happen again. The risk of that is highly unlikely, the risk of harm to your three Rabbits should you stop feeding hay is guaranteed.

It is very difficult for people to try to help you when you have not always provided us with factual information. Most people really do want to help, but get frustrated when the story keeps changing.

I believe that in a previous thread people offered suggestions of where to buy good quality hay. I tend to only buy hay in bales from a farm that delivers to me for free (I live in SW London, getting hay delivered isn’t impossible even here)

I do buy some hay online too, but never any that is sold in plastic bags. All the hays I buy are delivered in cardboard boxes. Storing hay in sealed plastic bags, especially in warm weather and for any length of time will encourage the growth of mould.

Storing your hay at home needs to be in a cool, dry and well ventilated area. I store mine on raised wooden pallets in a garage. Stored hay needs a good air circulation and to never get damp.

I will repost some links to hay suppliers that I have used and found the quality of hay to be very good. You can keep the hay in the cardboard boxes it’s delivered in as long as it is in a cool, dry well ventilated area.

https://www.hoptoforage.co.uk/mini-bales

https://healthyherby.co.uk/collections/healthy-herby-hay-and-straw

https://haybox.club/

https://www.timothyhay.co.uk/
 
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