Foxes broke through our fence last night

[steph182]

Why risk your animals? Let your dad sort the problem out properly.

That's awful. I don't know how an animal lover can suggest that, it's not the foxes fault that it's diet consists of small mammals. It'd be like saying to shoot every animal that's a carnivore if it's diet has anything in it that can be domesticated. Purely awful

 

[KarenM]

Foxes and other ground dwelling wildlife are cleared from land in the building process. The foxes we see in urban areas either visit from surrounding unbuilt-on areas or have re-colonised built-up areas from outside because we provide them shelter and somewhere to hide, especially in the sort of dense undergrowth which grows up in suburban gardens over decades. They have moved into urban and suburban areas because we lay on easy food for them (pets and discarded fast food) and because they are losing, indeed have lost, their fear of us.

Foxes and rabbits are simply incompatible and frankly I would rather take drastic action occasionally than have the constant worry about whether my pets are safe.

I'm not quite sure what your point is about animal being cleared from land in the building process. :? Yes, they're forced to leave in terror because they haven't got a clue what's happening to their home and so of course they are going to move on to other areas or try to reclaim their territory once building is finished.

But what gives rabbits more rights to life than the foxes? If you know there are foxes about, then it's your duty to do everything you need to protect your pets, but that doesn't need to include killing another animal who is only trying to find food. There are plenty of things you can do to make outdoor buns secure and, if you don't feel that is enough, then bring them inside.

As you seem to have already recognised by the use of the word 'occasionally', you can't just kill one fox and that will be the end of it because there will be another one to take over its territory sooner or later.

 

[RusselRocky]

Someone on here said that foxes are just hungry :shock: I am guessing you have never had the devestation of going outside and finding chicken corpses not one touched. Or a dead lamb again not eaten?

I am afraid foxes as the nature of them kill for fun so if you cannot find a humane way you agree with, and not a lot work, I would shoot him for the protection of your bunnys. I realise this will be met with disgust and I will be flamed. But that is the nature of a fox. Farmers realise that quickly that is why as soon as they see one they get rid of them end of. Would you want to risk your pets?

I will duck out now, but please do not think I am not an animal lover because of what I say, I love animals dearly but foxes are very much in it for the kill. So I would choose to protect the animals I have and love rather then an animal I do not know :wave:

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Someone on here said that foxes are just hungry :shock: I am guessing you have never had the devestation of going outside and finding chicken corpses not one touched. Or a dead lamb again not eaten?

..........or a disemboweled HOUSE Rabbit.............

Can I borrow your flack jacket RR...........

 

[sally1974]

I'm not quite sure what your point is about animal being cleared from land in the building process. :? Yes, they're forced to leave in terror because they haven't got a clue what's happening to their home and so of course they are going to move on to other areas or try to reclaim their territory once building is finished.

But what gives rabbits more rights to life than the foxes? If you know there are foxes about, then it's your duty to do everything you need to protect your pets, but that doesn't need to include killing another animal who is only trying to find food. There are plenty of things you can do to make outdoor buns secure and, if you don't feel that is enough, then bring them inside.

As you seem to have already recognised by the use of the word 'occasionally', you can't just kill one fox and that will be the end of it because there will be another one to take over its territory sooner or later.

I think this sentence sums up everything, great post

 

[sally1974]

Yes, I am serious. I find it shocking that you are not prepared to take a very simple step to protect animals who rely utterly on you to look after them and keep them safe. Even if you never make a mistake which gives the fox access to your rabbits, which is a big "if" human fallibility being what it is, the presence of the fox nearby is likely to cause your rabbits continuing stress which itself may kill them.



So what do you suggest then? Shall we all go back to northern France which is where we came from at the end of the Ice Age? Except the foxes came over with us.

Foxes and other ground dwelling wildlife are cleared from land in the building process. The foxes we see in urban areas either visit from surrounding unbuilt-on areas or have re-colonised built-up areas from outside because we provide them shelter and somewhere to hide, especially in the sort of dense undergrowth which grows up in suburban gardens over decades. They have moved into urban and suburban areas because we lay on easy food for them (pets and discarded fast food) and because they are losing, indeed have lost, their fear of us.

Foxes and rabbits are simply incompatible and frankly I would rather take drastic action occasionally than have the constant worry about whether my pets are safe.

Remember - you have to be lucky every night. The fox only has to be lucky once.

Exactly so we mess up the planet built over everything, discard fast food and rubbish left right and center and then when a animal by instinct is looking for a easy meal for example. Then it is ok for people to go and kill it is that the icing on the cake destroy their land then shoot them because they are hungry and desperate for food.

 

[sally1974]

Someone on here said that foxes are just hungry :shock: I am guessing you have never had the devestation of going outside and finding chicken corpses not one touched. Or a dead lamb again not eaten?

I am afraid foxes as the nature of them kill for fun so if you cannot find a humane way you agree with, and not a lot work, I would shoot him for the protection of your bunnys. I realise this will be met with disgust and I will be flamed. But that is the nature of a fox. Farmers realise that quickly that is why as soon as they see one they get rid of them end of. Would you want to risk your pets?

I will duck out now, but please do not think I am not an animal lover because of what I say, I love animals dearly but foxes are very much in it for the kill. So I would choose to protect the animals I have and love rather then an animal I do not know :wave:

No I haven't but I can tell you 100% I would not ever wish the fox dead. Should I go and kill my cat because it has got a mouse? Or hate lions because they take down zebra's etc? I really do feel for anyone who has lost a animal to a fox but to wish another animal dead is WRONG in my eyes.

 

[parsnipbun]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnyBunny
Foxes and other ground dwelling wildlife are cleared from land in the building process. The foxes we see in urban areas either visit from surrounding unbuilt-on areas or have re-colonised built-up areas from outside because we provide them shelter and somewhere to hide, especially in the sort of dense undergrowth which grows up in suburban gardens over decades. They have moved into urban and suburban areas because we lay on easy food for them (pets and discarded fast food) and because they are losing, indeed have lost, their fear of us.

Foxes and rabbits are simply incompatible and frankly I would rather take drastic action occasionally than have the constant worry about whether my pets are safe.
END QUOTE

(sorry quote thing didn't work properly!)

In fact rather than being 'cleared' en masse from a 'natural' habitat most urban foxes are now the result of unusually large surviving litters causing artificially high densities of population, which has in turn been 'enabled' by easy food and shelter (especially sheds and decking) provided in urban areas. In our area where for the last few decades there has been one fox pair who only managed ever to rear replacement numbers - the population has now exploded as people have started to feed them and thus encourage greater numbers. This year 4 cubs who will all need to find their own territories and their own food source.

What you wish to do about it is up to you - but the density we are seeing in urban areas now is unprecedented in the known past or in the rural situation. It is not due to clearance per se.

Out of interest I wonder what people are also doing about the similar massive increase in rats in the urban areas ? personally I dislike the idea of hundreds of wild rats taking up residence in the sheds and patio area in the immediate vicinity of my house - (with apologies to those who have pet rats).

 

[prettylupin]

I am in two minds about diving into this argument....help!
But yes I have seen the devastation caused by a fox. We lost all our 9 rabbits one night when I was a child, and our guineas too - save one guinea and one bun who managed to get away and hide. The fox broke through our insufficiently fox proofed runs in the night and caused absoluted carnage. My sister who was two years older than me and 9yrs old at the time found the bloody mess at the bottom of the garden on her own, I was late to help her, and I'm grateful I didn't see that at 7yrs old, she and my parents stopped me from going down there. Despite this neither my sister or I would ever wish to see a fox killed, it is nature 'in tooth and claw' as they say, and I'm extremely anti-hunting and the unncessary killing of any animal. We were devastated when we lost our rabbits, they were a big part of our lives and unlike many children our morning routine consisted of taking care of them every morning before school without fail and meeting all their needs, they weren't the 'abandoned rabbit at the bottom of the garden', but our family pets. My sister was traumatised not surprisingly for sometime afterwards. But this experience never changed our views on the right of all animals.
It was our human error, in our case, I can not comment on anyone elses experience, not to protect our buns sufficiently and i'm sure my parents felt terribly guilty for not making the runs strong enough. We rebuilt them differently after that. It was also a tragic accident and sadly in life these do happen. I often think about our lost buns and that morning - it still haunts me even now, but I would still never wish a fox killed. But that is just my personal belief and opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own.

 

[Jaysmonkey]

I too am all for not killing foxes, wrong or right though, this is a matter of opinion. I used to have outdoor buns and I did at that time have foxes too, They got in my garden but never managed to get to my bunnies, since they were all moved to concrete, covered run and had excess safety bolts on the run/hutch and many other sources of protection. I have had friends however who have lost a bunny (and other animals) to foxes. But it is at the end of the day the foxes way of life, they're are not perhaps hungry, but as mentioned earlier its the same with cats, I have two very young cats and they are forever bringing me presents, 'despite the five bells they now both have on their collars'. I can't go killing my cat.
You've got to remember alot of people are all for killing foxes, as they are for killing alot of things (poachers). I myself wouldn't kill a thing, I hate spider but i wouldn't kill one or even flies for that matter. I'm not going to go into the whole meat market matter; but at the end of the day this is a way of life. Let it be.

For the time being if the foxes persist I would just bring your guineas in until you've thought of a suitable method to deter them.

 

[prettylupin]

I just want to add that I'm extremely lucky to live somewhere there isn't a fox problem, and am dreading the day we move out of this city to the countryside around where there are more foxes (just in this area - I know some cities are full of urban foxes). I am planning in my head now everything we can do to keep my buns safe. The thought, as an adult, of losing my precious buns to a fox fills me with fear and has made me rather paranoid in how to prevent it. I still would not wish a fox dead but I must admit i'm feeling pretty anxious as to how to protect my bunnies when we move (and they are house buns too).

 

[prettylupin]

Out of interest I wonder what people are also doing about the similar massive increase in rats in the urban areas ? personally I dislike the idea of hundreds of wild rats taking up residence in the sheds and patio area in the immediate vicinity of my house - (with apologies to those who have pet rats).

This is a very interesting point. I have only experienced the increasing rat problem here, but can imagine from what you describe that the fox population is also getting out of control in certain areas. I don't know in these circumstances what one would do, and i'm not even sure of my opinion on this. My experience has only ever been of naturally controlled rural fox populations. With the rat problem in this area the numbers were culled. I hate to say it as an animal lover and in light of my earlier posts - but perhaps the same will have to be done of the fox population in these areas? I have no experience of how bad the problem is. :?
Humane culling to control numbers occurs with many species - it's not something I like and would want to be involved in but I can appreciate the 'necessity' in some situations. It's sad really that human influence has prevented species from controlling their own numbers as they would do evolutionary speaking in a natural environment. I suppose this is what I meant earlier by against 'unncessary killing'. I suppose there are occasions when it is necessary. It's certainly not something I would want done by any old member of the public though that's for sure.

 

[parsnipbun]

I just want to add that I'm extremely lucky to live somewhere there isn't a fox problem, and am dreading the day we move out of this city to the countryside around where there are more foxes (just in this area - I know some cities are full of urban foxes). I am planning in my head now everything we can do to keep my buns safe. The thought, as an adult, of losing my precious buns to a fox fills me with fear and has made me rather paranoid in how to prevent it. I still would not wish a fox dead but I must admit i'm feeling pretty anxious as to how to protect my bunnies when we move (and they are house buns too).

Actually nowadays its more the opposite problem. Rural foxes are less likely to go near human habitation, less likely to be about in the day and also lower population density. People who move into cities from rural areas say its the first time they have ever seen a fox!

 

[KarenM]

I am afraid foxes as the nature of them kill for fun

This statement always crops up on fox debates and it's not strictly true. Foxes will often kill all the prey they can find, eat what they can and return later on to recover what they've left. In the case of a beloved pet, it naturally doesn't get the opportunity because we will have buried him/her by the time it comes back. That's also the reason they will dig up buried animals - not out of sheer pleasure but to find the food that it knows is there. I'm sorry if any of what I've written sounds harsh or insensitive; it's not meant to be and I truly feel for anybody who has lost their animals in this way but I don't feel that killing foxes is the answer.

Lillian, I'm sorry your thread has been taken over a little by the fox killing debate.

 

[crysta]

I know that we have foxes around here which is why my buns are inside buns - so the fox never gets the chance. We have a guard dog in the back garden which would probably scare any foxes off anyway but I'm not willing to take that chance.

 

[bunbuns]

Are you serious?? I am shocked how can you think it is ok to shoot the fox remember we have taken over their land and they are just trying to survive I am sure something can be done other than shooting the poor thing. I am getting sick of hearing everyone saying foxes are bad etc no they are HUNGRY.(Lillian this isn't aimed at you I know you are trying to think of a better solution)

Well said Sally. My brothers cat killed our family parakeet which had been in our family for 10yrs He didn't eat him, he just killed him. What is the difference between a cat and a fox? My heart goes out to all the people who have lost much loved pets to foxes but it isnt the foxes fault.

Hope you manage to sort something out to keep your babies safe. It must be a terrible worry. xxx

 

[nursecroft]

Someone on here said that foxes are just hungry :shock: I am guessing you have never had the devestation of going outside and finding chicken corpses not one touched. Or a dead lamb again not eaten?

I am afraid foxes as the nature of them kill for fun so if you cannot find a humane way you agree with, and not a lot work, I would shoot him for the protection of your bunnys. I realise this will be met with disgust and I will be flamed. But that is the nature of a fox. Farmers realise that quickly that is why as soon as they see one they get rid of them end of. Would you want to risk your pets?

I will duck out now, but please do not think I am not an animal lover because of what I say, I love animals dearly but foxes are very much in it for the kill. So I would choose to protect the animals I have and love rather then an animal I do not know :wave:

I agree, ive seen the devastation caused by foxes so many times, they dont just kill one like a cat would they wipe out whole flocks of chickens, they maul alot of them too instead of just killing them. I think as long as its done humanely then i dont have a problem with it. I could never do it myself though, i cant stand the thought of any animal dying for whatever reason.

I dont want any arguement about it just my personal opinion from my experiences.

 

[Tuckerbunnies]

This may be of help

http://www.oldham.gov.uk/ocfs-env-epeh4s.pdf

 

[parsnipbun]

The next Rabbitting On will carry a double page spread on deterring foxes.

 

[willow the wisp]

Yes, I am serious. I find it shocking that you are not prepared to take a very simple step to protect animals who rely utterly on you to look after them and keep them safe. Even if you never make a mistake which gives the fox access to your rabbits, which is a big "if" human fallibility being what it is, the presence of the fox nearby is likely to cause your rabbits continuing stress which itself may kill them.



So what do you suggest then? Shall we all go back to northern France which is where we came from at the end of the Ice Age? Except the foxes came over with us.

Foxes and other ground dwelling wildlife are cleared from land in the building process. The foxes we see in urban areas either visit from surrounding unbuilt-on areas or have re-colonised built-up areas from outside because we provide them shelter and somewhere to hide, especially in the sort of dense undergrowth which grows up in suburban gardens over decades. They have moved into urban and suburban areas because we lay on easy food for them (pets and discarded fast food) and because they are losing, indeed have lost, their fear of us.

Foxes and rabbits are simply incompatible and frankly I would rather take drastic action occasionally than have the constant worry about whether my pets are safe.

Remember - you have to be lucky every night. The fox only has to be lucky once.

So shall I shoot my cat for killing lovely little birds and cute mice? Shall we shoot lions for killing wildebeest? You're clearly not an animal lover if you think foxes should be shot. THey are majestc creatures, I feed 8 every night in my local churchyard and have done so for 3 years. It is ridiculous for you to say that rabbits cannot be fox proofed, OF COURSE THEY CAN. I really resent your ill informed comments.