VickiP
Wise Old Thumper
Mmmm thats an idea. Thanks.
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End factory farming of rabbits
- Thread starter Suzanne
- Start date
Mmmm thats an idea. Thanks.
Vegan_Bunny
Warren Veteran
i dont want tobe a pessimist but alot of people don't see bunnies as sentient beings. If people are willing to eat rabbit then there willcontinue to be factory farming. I mean if people will factory farm pigs, cows, sheep, goats, chickens and alsorts of other animals then i doubt they will care about bunnies 
VickiP
Wise Old Thumper
i dont want tobe a pessimist but alot of people don't see bunnies as sentient beings. If people are willing to eat rabbit then there willcontinue to be factory farming. I mean if people will factory farm pigs, cows, sheep, goats, chickens and alsorts of other animals then i doubt they will care about bunnies
:wave: Agreed, this isn't about stopping them being bred for meat, it is about enabling them to have a set of 'welfare standards' that are enforceable not just guidelines. For example all animals are supposed to be able to exhibit 'natural' behaviour whatever reason they are being kept for. By keeping rabbits there needs to be rules on what conditions they are kept in because to deny them the ability to run around and forage is to deny them the right to express their natural behaviour. Its the same principle for battery hens, I don't accept because it's done that way it will never change, if no-one ever tries to change anything then it most definately will stay the same. I know it may be a waste of time but, you never know, might just find a person with their heart in the right place and no it won't stop anyone eating rabbit but, hopefully would safeguard their right to a reasonable standard of living before they do get slaughtered. The legislation is totally out of date in line with the fact that the rabbit is now a 'household' pet, I can't think of any other animal which is eaten - apart from the farm animals you mentioned above, so maybe that is the problem - they are classed as farm animals in the first place?
Vegan_Bunny
Warren Veteran
yes it is totally out of date. This is probably because rabbits were originally kept for fur and meat. They became pets rather recently unlike cats and dogs which have always been "pets" or at least "worthy" enough to keep healthy and happy.
Alot of people only view rabbits as a pest or something to be used
The standards to need to improve but i always feel that it can be more cruel sometimes to have them living perfectly happy and brilliant lives only to be slaughtered in a horribly brutal way by the humans who looked after you :?
Can't get my head around any sort of farm that keep animals for meat :shock:
Standards will be improved but it will take a long long time. Battery hens are a good example. If enough people care then factory farming of bunnies in this country will eventually be banned like the fur farms are.
Alot of people only view rabbits as a pest or something to be used
The standards to need to improve but i always feel that it can be more cruel sometimes to have them living perfectly happy and brilliant lives only to be slaughtered in a horribly brutal way by the humans who looked after you :?
Can't get my head around any sort of farm that keep animals for meat :shock:
Standards will be improved but it will take a long long time. Battery hens are a good example. If enough people care then factory farming of bunnies in this country will eventually be banned like the fur farms are.
Rabbit Welfare
I agree and have already contacted my MP.
Perhaps contacting some of the major supermarket chains along similar lines would also be a good idea and contribute to a positive outcome for rabbits? They are usually at the front of the queue in proclaiming the high standards of animal welfare to which they claim their suppliers comply. No supermarket wants a public reputation of condoning the poor treatment of animals.
I checked out the Sainsbury's website for their corporate report. The following is just an extract from their Animal Welfare section.
Sainsbury's has a long-standing commitment to animal welfare. Our customers have the right to be completely confident that animals reared for meat, fish or eggs sold in our stores have been well treated.
We have developed Good Agricultural Practice requirements, which are based on the "Five Freedoms" originally defined by the UK Farm Animal Welfare Council:
1.Freedom from hunger and thirst
2.Freedom from discomfort
3.Freedom from disease and injury
4.Freedom from fear and distress
5.Freedom to express normal behaviour.
There's a lot more on the website.
I would expect that all of the other supermarkets would make similar claims. In which case they should be entirely willing to demonstrate that they comply.
Although I would personally never eat rabbit I cannot reasonably impose my views on others. In my opinion, if people must eat rabbits then rabbits must be treated humanely throughout.
I agree and have already contacted my MP.
Perhaps contacting some of the major supermarket chains along similar lines would also be a good idea and contribute to a positive outcome for rabbits? They are usually at the front of the queue in proclaiming the high standards of animal welfare to which they claim their suppliers comply. No supermarket wants a public reputation of condoning the poor treatment of animals.
I checked out the Sainsbury's website for their corporate report. The following is just an extract from their Animal Welfare section.
Sainsbury's has a long-standing commitment to animal welfare. Our customers have the right to be completely confident that animals reared for meat, fish or eggs sold in our stores have been well treated.
We have developed Good Agricultural Practice requirements, which are based on the "Five Freedoms" originally defined by the UK Farm Animal Welfare Council:
1.Freedom from hunger and thirst
2.Freedom from discomfort
3.Freedom from disease and injury
4.Freedom from fear and distress
5.Freedom to express normal behaviour.
There's a lot more on the website.
I would expect that all of the other supermarkets would make similar claims. In which case they should be entirely willing to demonstrate that they comply.
Although I would personally never eat rabbit I cannot reasonably impose my views on others. In my opinion, if people must eat rabbits then rabbits must be treated humanely throughout.
VickiP
Wise Old Thumper
:wave: Agreed although I have to say I have never seen 'rabbit' meat for sale in any of the supermarkets I purchase from, even my local butcher doesn't sell it, there is no demand for it, I don't know if that is a 'southern' thing or not? Most rabbits farmed I would imagine are farmed for the pet food industry, I have a dog and would not feed food containing rabbit but, I know cat and dog food does have this in it. The five freedoms are what the RSPCA are known to monitor and that is good, I have my doubts that they are enforceable sadly though as I personally witnessed a 'back-garden' breeder who was most definately not meeting all the five freedoms and he has not been prosecuted or warned even? This is the problem I have with the welfare act, it is not law. It is guidance and whilst as the MP who replied said to me - all breeders of any animal should be striving to exceed these guidelines sadly knowing the world we live in and the who often do this for whatever reason they don't exceed them, most barely meet all five freedoms for their animals. There is absolutely no profit in keeping 25 rabbits in the back garden in 'breeding' boxes, eating some and then having the gawl to turn up at 'shows' with some and mix with other breeders. Those rabbits are living in misery because those guys feel like doing it and think it is alright. I personally don't think that should be allowed and if the RSPCA won't intervene then what can you do? It's very wrong and I am still really upset about it. I have no doubt there are probably loads of people doing it aswell which is even more depressing. It's just unbelievable that in a country where the rabbit is the 3rd most popular pet and large proportion of vet's income is in fact from rabbit owners vaccinating their pets etc that others are allowed to do this.:?
who often do this for whatever reason they don't exceed them, most barely meet all five freedoms for their animals. There is absolutely no profit in keeping 25 rabbits in the back garden in 'breeding' boxes, eating some and then having the gawl to turn up at 'shows' with some and mix with other breeders. Those rabbits are living in misery because those guys feel like doing it and think it is alright. I personally don't think that should be allowed and if the RSPCA won't intervene then what can you do? It's very wrong and I am still really upset about it. I have no doubt there are probably loads of people doing it aswell which is even more depressing. It's just unbelievable that in a country where the rabbit is the 3rd most popular pet and large proportion of vet's income is in fact from rabbit owners vaccinating their pets etc that others are allowed to do this.:?:wave: Agreed although I have to say I have never seen 'rabbit' meat for sale in any of the supermarkets I purchase from, even my local butcher doesn't sell it, there is no demand for it, I don't know if that is a 'southern' thing or not? Most rabbits farmed I would imagine are farmed for the pet food industry, I have a dog and would not feed food containing rabbit but, I know cat and dog food does have this in it. The five freedoms are what the RSPCA are known to monitor and that is good, I have my doubts that they are enforceable sadly though as I personally witnessed a 'back-garden' breeder who was most definately not meeting all the five freedoms and he has not been prosecuted or warned even? This is the problem I have with the welfare act, it is not law. It is guidance and whilst as the MP who replied said to me - all breeders of any animal should be striving to exceed these guidelines sadly knowing the world we live in and the
:wave:I agree that it is difficult, but "a long journey starts with a single step".
I am in the Midlands and the major national supermarket chains here definitely do sell rabbit meat.
In a similar way, no doubt the the major cat and dog food manufacturers about which you are particularly concerned will have similar statements about "ethically produced ingredients" in their products.
None of them will want to be humiliated by being shown that they are not even meeting their own policies about animal welfare. They could lose business reputation plus existing and potential customers.
In terms of the rabbit shows that you mentioned, if they are organised by national clubs and societies they won't want one of their members mistreating his rabbits because it would reflect badly on their society. However, they will only do something if they are told and a record is kept of them having been told. Then they can be blamed if they do nothing.
I agree that "guidelines" are not as good as "laws" but they are a start and better than what we have at present. Also, "guidelines" can be just a stepping stone. When guidelines are not followed you can push for them to be upgraded to laws to ensure that they are enforced.
In my business experience, the risk of embarassment is a fairly powerful motivator for most companies.
I tried to get my local MP to sign one of these regarding the welfare of chickens, after about 5 months and 4 letters full of excuses, I finally got an honest reply, which was that she is too important to put her name to EDM's and that EDM's were just for mere backbenchers. :shock: :shock:
It wasn't what I wanted to hear but I think getting an MP to be honest was a break through in itself.
This sounds the same as what Vanessa B was told back on the 17th Dec, my MP also forwarded it for a response from DEFRA. I don't know if DEFRA has replied to Vanessa yet, but if the response is anything like the one I received, it is 2 pages of a lot of words which say nothing.
Although strange, I have actually got two MP's in my area, the other one signed the Chicken EDM without me asking and I have emailed him to sign this one, I will let you know if I get a reply.
It wasn't what I wanted to hear but I think getting an MP to be honest was a break through in itself.
This sounds the same as what Vanessa B was told back on the 17th Dec, my MP also forwarded it for a response from DEFRA. I don't know if DEFRA has replied to Vanessa yet, but if the response is anything like the one I received, it is 2 pages of a lot of words which say nothing.
Although strange, I have actually got two MP's in my area, the other one signed the Chicken EDM without me asking and I have emailed him to sign this one, I will let you know if I get a reply.
Well I tried, unfortunately I come under the neighbouring/joint town, he did say he was going to sign, but then his assistant asked for my address which confirmed that I was out of his area, but that she had forwarded my request to my MP who I know will not sign.
Did you get any of that!!! I have just read it back and it sounds like gobbledygook to me, lol.
Basically I failed!!!
But I have another plan, I hope you are reading this Kris, you are in the right area to get this MP to sign, all you have to do is email him and I am sure that he will oblige.
P.S. Did anyone know that gobbledygook was an actual word???? You learn something new everyday, lol.
Did you get any of that!!! I have just read it back and it sounds like gobbledygook to me, lol.
Basically I failed!!!
But I have another plan, I hope you are reading this Kris, you are in the right area to get this MP to sign, all you have to do is email him and I am sure that he will oblige.
P.S. Did anyone know that gobbledygook was an actual word???? You learn something new everyday, lol.
VickiP
Wise Old Thumper
:wave: The EDM was lost though, I had a reply saying it was lost, I just assumed that was that for that motion, I thought it would need to be raised by an MP again to have a chance at being passed. What are you asking him to sign? :wave:
Do you understand these EDM's then?
I had this problem with the last EDM regarding Chicken Welfare, three times I asked Chickenout.com for a cut off date for MP's to sign and three times they never got back to me.
I have looked it up on the Parliament site and it doesn't say anything about it being lost or finished, do you know of a different site which tells you the outcome?
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=38685&SESSION=899
I had this problem with the last EDM regarding Chicken Welfare, three times I asked Chickenout.com for a cut off date for MP's to sign and three times they never got back to me.
I have looked it up on the Parliament site and it doesn't say anything about it being lost or finished, do you know of a different site which tells you the outcome?
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=38685&SESSION=899
VickiP
Wise Old Thumper
:wave: No I only saw it on here and it was quite relevant because of what I had seen at a house I was looking at. The MP who replied to me said it was lost which I assumed meant it had either been raised and through lack of support was thrown out or it didn't get raised in the first place. I think timing may be an issue with these though, if there is a lot of other 'important issues' going on in parliament then this wouldn't get a look in I would imagine. When you spoke to your MP he should have advised you that this was lost as mine did in the letter I got. How he established that I don't know, I will ask him for more information about it when I see him, haven't made an appointment yet
Thanks for the info.
I have just looked into it further and noticed that you have the choice to choose 'Open EDM's' and 'All EDM's', now I would assume that an open EDM means just that, so as this one is open it does still exist. So maybe your MP was just trying to fob you off.
Although, it does also say that EDM's remain current for the rest of the session, now this one is in session 08-09, but it also says that they can continue into the next session.
I think in all honesty these EDM's are deliberately confusing so folk like us just give up. :roll:
I have just looked into it further and noticed that you have the choice to choose 'Open EDM's' and 'All EDM's', now I would assume that an open EDM means just that, so as this one is open it does still exist. So maybe your MP was just trying to fob you off.
Although, it does also say that EDM's remain current for the rest of the session, now this one is in session 08-09, but it also says that they can continue into the next session.
I think in all honesty these EDM's are deliberately confusing so folk like us just give up. :roll:
VickiP
Wise Old Thumper
Related link from Uncaged - Animal Rights
Sometime before June 3rd - UK General Election. We'll be organising our Protecting Animals in Democracy campaign to empower voters to raise their animal protection concerns and put this issue on to the political agenda. (http://www.facebook.com/l/5ff73;www.vote4animals.org.uk)
Sometime before June 3rd - UK General Election. We'll be organising our Protecting Animals in Democracy campaign to empower voters to raise their animal protection concerns and put this issue on to the political agenda. (http://www.facebook.com/l/5ff73;www.vote4animals.org.uk)
:wave:I have now received a reply to my email to my MP. You can tell there is an imminent election, it was on House of Commons letter-headed paper.
He cannot sign EDM1515 because it is an 'old' EDM. He also 'understands' that the welfare of farmed rabbits is covered by the Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) Regulations 2007 and a code of recommendations for rabbit welfare which continues to apply under the Animal Welfare Act 2006.
He goes on to state [my emphasis] "In general, I believe that those who breed rabbits commercially, like every animal owner, should have a duty of care to their animals and must ensure that they exceed the minimum welfare levels required by the State."
Personally, I can't see many commercial breeders exceeding minimum welfare levels - there's no commercial benefit to them for doing so.
He will also pass my concerns to the Minister at DEFRA and give me a copy of his reply.
More interestingly, he refers to a new EDM - Number 58. I have looked on the website and the wording appears to be similar to the previous one.
Unless they are pushed, I suspect that MPs will do very little (or nothing).
Unfortunately, due to their biology, rabbits are silent creatures that cannot speak. If they could talk, and vote, MPs would be falling over themselves to get the rabbit vote.
Hope this helps.
He cannot sign EDM1515 because it is an 'old' EDM. He also 'understands' that the welfare of farmed rabbits is covered by the Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) Regulations 2007 and a code of recommendations for rabbit welfare which continues to apply under the Animal Welfare Act 2006.
He goes on to state [my emphasis] "In general, I believe that those who breed rabbits commercially, like every animal owner, should have a duty of care to their animals and must ensure that they exceed the minimum welfare levels required by the State."
Personally, I can't see many commercial breeders exceeding minimum welfare levels - there's no commercial benefit to them for doing so.
He will also pass my concerns to the Minister at DEFRA and give me a copy of his reply.
More interestingly, he refers to a new EDM - Number 58. I have looked on the website and the wording appears to be similar to the previous one.
Unless they are pushed, I suspect that MPs will do very little (or nothing).
Unfortunately, due to their biology, rabbits are silent creatures that cannot speak. If they could talk, and vote, MPs would be falling over themselves to get the rabbit vote.
Hope this helps.
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VickiP
Wise Old Thumper
:wave:I have now received a reply to my email to my MP. You can tell there is an imminent election, it was on House of Commons letter-headed paper.
He cannot sign EDM1515 because it is an 'old' EDM. He also 'understands' that the welfare of farmed rabbits is covered by the Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) Regulations 2007 and a code of recommendations for rabbit welfare which continues to apply under the Animal Welfare Act 2006.
He goes on to state [my emphasis] "In general, I believe that those who breed rabbits commercially, like every animal owner, should have a duty of care to their animals and must ensure that they exceed the minimum welfare levels required by the State."
Personally, I can't see many commercial breeders exceeding minimum welfare levels - there's no commercial benefit to them for doing so.
He will also pass my concerns to the Minister at DEFRA and give me a copy of his reply.
More interestingly, he refers to a new EDM - Number 58. I have looked on the website and the wording appears to be similar to the previous one.
Unless they are pushed, I suspect that MPs will do very little (or nothing).
Unfortunately, due to their biology, rabbits are silent creatures that cannot speak. If they could talk, and vote, MPs would be falling over themselves to get the rabbit vote.
Hope this helps.
Sounds like a general letter they all use then, the wording is identical to my reply! :roll:
