e.caniculi - Binky Free Beautifull

[Vicki]

Hi,

Thanks for reying to me!

Thats what i was thinking, surely when of if shes had enough she'll let me no by stopping eating or something? I dont want her to not at least be happy and i keep trying and she'd rather not? Im just so confused, dont know what to do for the best, i just dont want to give up but dont want to be selfish and keep her going, but she is still bright in herself etc which makes me think to keep going?

Thanks

Vicki

 

[Kermit]

In my opinion, it is still early days with the EC. My Inca was dragging her legs for a while, and very weak on them for longer after that.

I would suggest that if the meds are showing slight improvements then more time could produce even better results. It really is baby steps when it comes to treating EC, there is no quick cure and from time to time it seems like there is no improvement, but in my experience sticking in there does work.

The fact that she is bright in herself speaks volumes. She is fighting this, she may take a bit of time to get over it. I think that she will let you know if she has had enough.

ETA: If you ever need any further EC advice from me, just even any daft questions, feel free to pm me as i don't always notice new posts x

 

[The Duchess]

Hi,

Thanks for reying to me!

Thats what i was thinking, surely when of if shes had enough she'll let me no by stopping eating or something? I dont want her to not at least be happy and i keep trying and she'd rather not? Im just so confused, dont know what to do for the best, i just dont want to give up but dont want to be selfish and keep her going, but she is still bright in herself etc which makes me think to keep going?

Thanks

Vicki

I had to nurse one of my own rabbits (Tululah) earlier this year for quite a number of months. She had started to get frequent bouts of stasis for no 'apparent' reason. She had scans and blood tests and had been started off on Panacur as the symptoms fitted with EC. However following the scan, we saw that she in fact had bladder cancer and that she could not be saved, but just maintained. So atleast we knew what we were dealing with. The incontinence, the falling over, the apparent severe pain in her back and the stasis could all have been put down to EC but when we knew what it really was we were able to treat her much better.

She ended up on opiate based injectible pain relief and it did work for quite a while and she did 'pick up', both enjoying her food, running around and being loved by her husbun. One day, I just knew she'd had enough. She just sat there and looked at me. She didn't get up when I bothered her like she used to. I knew. So we let her go while she was still in relatively okay shape, but I guess the pain had gotten too much.

What I am saying is that if you know she is still apparently happy and is not showing signs of giving up, then don't feel guilty for carrying on.

 

[Vicki]

Yeah im kinda hoping i will just no from her when she has had enough, i so want to get her over this.

My other concern is, yes she wanting to eat like mad whenever i give her something but at the moment she is eating more veg than hay although she is still eating hay aswell but she wont take any pellets. So far ive just bin like, let her have anything she wants when she wants, anythings better than nothing, but i have noticed she looks thinner, any ideas on what to bulk her up a bit?

Ive also totaly forgot to mention about the lump aswell that is still on her leg, i have since felt another two tiny ones on her body

Thanks

 

[Kermit]

I used these to help get a bit of weight on Inca http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-suppl...rotexin-pro-fibre-for-rabbits-800g-pot-p-1178

 

[Vicki]

Thanks for that, ill order some of those. Another slight improvement today, she has'nt accepted any pellets until this morning and she ate some! Its only a small improvement but an improvement.

 

[The Duchess]

I used these to help get a bit of weight on Inca http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-suppl...rotexin-pro-fibre-for-rabbits-800g-pot-p-1178

I agree that these are invaluable and always keep some in for rabbits that need a bit of help feeding or a boost of fibre.

 

[Elena]

I used these to help get a bit of weight on Inca http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-suppl...rotexin-pro-fibre-for-rabbits-800g-pot-p-1178

I use these with Mischa and Mini too. Mischa to help him keep weight on and Mini for her tum.

 

[Vicki]

They've been ordered, hoping they will help her put on some weight and get fighting fit and strong soon.

I feel so drained with all this worry, just want her better now

 

[Vicki]

Hi,

Just an update really.

Lola is stil on her treatment of Panacur and Metacam. She has just finnished the fourth week. Her appetite couldnt be any better, she could eat for england and really looks so bright in herself whenever you go to her. My worry is, she is still unable to move herself. Her back legs have 'movement' in them, one more than the other, but not enough to move herself. She tries to pull herself with her front legs but doesnt seem strong enough.

Im cleaning her up at least twice a day. Obviously shes laying in her toilet as she cant move. I have her on a vetbed and this is doing great, draining the wet from her. She will only lay on one side as one of her front legs doesnt seem to want to hold her. Her fur has become matted where shes layed on it.

If i hold her back legs for her, she runs around on her front legs and i cant keep up with her! Im hoping by doing this regulary it will build some strentgh up in her front legs for her to be able to pull herself about?

My question is... How long do i give it? She seems bright enough and wanting to eat etc but its nonlife for her to be laying in one spot all day, so how long do you wait to see if her back legs will get going? I dont eant to be unfair to her as shes a little fighter but i cant help feeling sorry for her when she trys to mive but cant?

 

[bunlover]

with my ec bunny it took about a month for the pannacur to have any affect on her seizures or her limping she never regained full leg movement but could hop around happily. she had the pannacur for more than the 28 days too as we wanted to be extra sure we had done it all.x

 

[Vicki]

Thanks for your reply,

Her back legs have deffinately showed signs of improvement, now when i hold her legs while shes walking i can feel shes pushing doen on my hands with them, whereas before they were just limp as i held them.

The vet wants her to have another two weeks of panacur and metacam, making six in total, im praying she gets those legs moving at least a little enough so she can move herself?

Was your bunny completely dead in the back legs or did she never completely loose the use of them?

 

[Kermit]

Both of my EC buns had 6 weeks panacur. Inca (the one with the hind leg weakness) had Metacam for much longer than the 6 weeks, she was initially on steroid injections (for about 4 weeks) then Metacam for possibly a few months afterwards.

I really do hope that Lola starts to get some movement in her back end. Millions of vibes from me x

 

[Neleh]

Lola sounds just like my bun! It is very sad when they want to walk but can't. I'm glad that she is still improving, I think she may have been worse than my little man, I've propped him up on both sides so he tends to sit in a normal position and can stretch the short way for his water and can reach his pellets below and around his head he is surrounded in hay! I think he has been responding well, its just a question of mobility. The vet I saw said as he is happy and bright eyes he can remain so even if no further improvement is made but I'm not sure due to toileting - tho it is much better with the new bedding I have tried, he is now dry and his ceacotrophs are ok to feed him (sawdust clung to them and once he stepped in them it was just like an odd cement)

I do hope she continues to regain her strength, they get ill so suddenly you just assume recovery will be as spontaneous don't you? Did you continue holding her back legs to strengthen the front ones? xx

 

[Vicki]

Lola does sound similar to your little boy, i tried to prop her both sides and lay her on the side she doesnt normaly lay on but she just kinda freaked out, im not sure if one of her front legs has been affected aswell but shes definately not using it the same as the other one and cant hold herself on it. Yes i am still holding her back legs and following her around while she has a walkabout, hopefuly it will stregthen her up? Im looking into getting her some wheels for her back legs and then she'l have no problem!

How long has your bun had it for? is he still on any treatment?

Thanks for your reply aswel Kermit, how is Inca getting on? Im just taking each day as it comes and fingers crossed we will get some improvement with her.

Im not sure if any of you have seen it already but i found a video on Youtube of a lady who had a white bunny called ethel with the same thing and she had some wheels made for her aswel. How Ethel is is basicaly how Lola is at the moment.

 

[Neleh]

he got sick 27/12/11. He is on panacur and 0.2 baytril for 28 days. I'm going to take him to a rabbit specialist tomorrow for peace of mind that he is and will continue to do well. The vet I saw told me normal anatomy of penis and scent glands was bruising caused by a bite - granted the scent gland was blocked but still :roll: I only realised when looking online that it was normal!

ETA: he walked today, he needs support on his right side to stop him falling! I almost lost him between his pet carrier and a box I got to help him be safe (but I realise now it's too small as by the time he is moving he is crashing into the padding on the opposite wall, its a big box so I'm surprised :shock:
He also cleaned his back feet whilst I held him today - was cute seeing him clean each toe! His feet don't seem fully relaxed tho, his toes seem to be curled? Maybe his muscles are tight and need relaxing?

 

[Neleh]

Ok so he stared rocking from side to side the other day, I thought it was just his breathing making his whole body move due to being propped up but now I'm not so sure? I've read that it can be another symptom of EC but also common in red eyed rabbits, he has brown eyes,com but they have a red tint in certain light, or it could be a relaxed state - I'm not sure how relaxed he is as he has been grinding his teeth at various times in the day... I will be going to a rabbit savvy vet tomorrow but I'm just seeing what you guys think? (sorry to double post)

 

[Vicki]

How did your bun get on at the vets today?

Lolas still not able to move herself, her front legs seem to weak still but im bringing her in to hold her back legs so she can build some muscle back up, just dont want to over do it!

Im not sure why your bun is rocking? Lola has'nt done that, did the vet say?

Lola is currently in her furth week of treatment - 0.36 Panacur and 0.23 of Metacam twice a day, my vet wants her to have at least 6 weeks of the Panacur until we review how she is doing.

She is starting to loose the fur that was getting wet at the start now, poor little girl

 

[Vicki]

How is your bun doing now nelah?

Lola still cant move herself

I really dont know what to think or do? She doesnt seem in pain and is happily eating and drinking. She is still on daily Panacur and twice daily Metacam.

I just dont know if im doing the right thing in carrying on? Should she be improving now or showing some signs? Her legs kick out but she cannot move herself.

Harvey seems to be getting jealous, he's always been the one who had most of the fuss and attention as lola never wanted it and would hopp away unless you had food! I suppose he hasnt been getting the attention he's used to as ive been spending more time with her!

 

[Neleh]

I'm sorry to not respond! This place broke for a while.

He got on well, meds changed and he is improving so so much each day! Still on 1 graduation of Panacur but Baytril increased to 1ml a day (from 0.2ml), Metacam 0.25ml and 1ml Zantac twice a day.
He can hop about quite well, considering, he only hops for a bit and then he sits - he moves to pee, eat and drink. I think we are looking at treating for the 6 week rather than 4 week too but this will be confirmed on Friday. Where are you based? I'm wondering if you can get to see my vet in Leigh, Lancs? She is wonderful and has so much experience in this sort of thing - Malteser may have some acupuncture on Friday when he sees her next, she has had much success. It's a 50min car ride for us, luckily Malteser travels well so he doesn't get too stressed out.

It has remained within his mind set that he should move to pee. I see that at first he is ok but then as he gets tired one foot will drag - its not always the same foot. His front paws tend to curl under most of the time too but I think it depends on the surface he is on/tiredness etc.
He has had a biiiig stretch this morning - front and back feet as far as they can go and tummy on the floor - I wasn't sure he'd get back up from it but he did (he was a bit wobbly after!). He keeps trying to clean himself but can't balance unless he is in a corner. I think he is eating most cecotrops himself now as he can get to his butt when in the tank. (just as I type this I hear a thud from his run - he is infact eating them all by himself!)
I've cleaned out a spare hutch and I'm sourcing some VetBed as we think he is enjoying being able to wonder free.
I read a good little success story yesterday and you know, it said not to give up! OK so Malteser seems to be improving well at the mo but we couldn't see him walking by our 3rd visit to the vet but he was sure as hell trying by then and we never expected it!
IMO as long as they are bright eyed, eating and drinking they are ok. It will be a commitment for us both should neither improve a great deal from where they are at this point in time but I know Malteser loves the extra cuddles and putting me off my uni work - he kisses us both now since we nursed him so hard. I've been reading too that the better recoveries come from those who can eat and drink for themselves.

Also, have you done any therapy with Lola? Right from the beginning I would pull gently on maltesers legs to stretch his muscles. then I would push his legs back in on the palm of my hand - I felt him increasingly resisting esp on his back legs. I also give him massages - it increases the blood flow to the tissues and again helps them to relax - Malteser's muscles where quite tight you could feel it as you pulled but each time you pull you feel it easing.
Just remember all buns are different and take varying time to recover. You can PM me anytime for support. I know how heartbreaking it is!

My friends rabbit had this in Sept - the first week they had to nurse him every 2 hours - he was floppy the whole first week. By the second week he could only lift his head - he is now running around like any other bun, no sign of anything ever being wrong with him. Fudge was given 10% chance, just like Malteser, it is for Fudge that I didn't go with my gut to PTS, Fudge was the niggle in my mind that Malteser might be ok too. Matt never thought about PTS, he said Malteser looked at him and said "help me", I saw that too but thought in a different way.