E.C. & the advice to deep clean @ specific intervals

[joey&boo]

When a forum bunny is on panacur for suspected or diagnosed E.C. there is usually the advice to disinfect / steam clean their whole environment at 2 intervals (relating the life cycle of the parasite causing EC I think?)

I've never got this & really want to understand. Where did the advice originally come from? does anybody know?

The reasons I don't get it are EC is omitted through spores in contaminated urine . The risk is that its re-ingested through eating something infected with these spores. So why do people focus on soft furnishings, furniture ...cleaning everywhere. If re-infection is the worry wouldn't it make more sense to worry about what nearly all bunnies do - pee on hay & then eat it :lol: But as we know, thats largely unavoidable (although I expect regular litter changes & hay racks would reduce it)

Surely good care & hygiene is all thats needed?

 

[a reader of books]

I've actually been wondering the same thing, so I'm glad you asked. I was planning on asking my vets tomorrow when I give them an update on Sophie and Casper, so I'll let you know what they say.

 

[SarahP]

It was from a study years ago now... I remember it being discussed at great length on here at the time. No-one really knew how useful it was as advice then, and I suspect that hasn't changed.

I'll have a look to see if I can find the old thread.

 

[joey&boo]

I've actually been wondering the same thing, so I'm glad you asked. I was planning on asking my vets tomorrow when I give them an update on Sophie and Casper, so I'll let you know what they say.

that you've been wondering too makes me feel better! yes pls- report back

I asked mine years ago & she knew nothing of the advice above, just advocated good husbandry

 

[joey&boo]

It was from a study years ago now... I remember it being discussed at great length on here at the time. No-one really knew how useful it was as advice then, and I suspect that hasn't changed.

I'll have a look to see if I can find the old thread.

Fab. I'll have to trawl the forum. Any idea how many years ago?

 

[SarahP]

I'd say over 10!

 

[joey&boo]

I'd say over 10!

wow. thank you

 

[joey&boo]

this is a good read but I only skim read it

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uploads/wp-post-to-pdf-enhanced-cache/1/treatment-of-encephalitozoon-cuniculi-infection-in-rabbits.pdf

link is Vet times article on EC management - 15 years old i think

 

[Shimmer]

The usual advie is to disinfect or steam clean on days 21 and 28 of the 28 teatment cycle (ie daily oral fenbendazole aka Panacur). This is presumably when the spores are shed in urine when the rabbit is undergoing treatment for EC, so anything that may have had contact with urine could reinfect any rabbit in that space.

I found this quote for untreated rabbits with EC:
These spores are resistant to environmental factors and can remain viable for several years. Spores are passed in the urine of rabbits, beginning around 35 days after infection, and continue to be excreted for 2 to 3 months.
https://vetfolio-vetstreet.s3.amazo...a6a447d1a5ff1cb308e76d2e/filePV_28_02_108.pdf

And for a diagram of the lifecycle of EC:
https://www.vetfolio.com/learn/article/encephalitozoon-cuniculi-infection-in-rabbits

So the spores are not continually shed in urine, but reinfection is a very likely scenario if suitable disinfection is not carried out. The spores in the environment are easy to kill with a short exposure to the correct disinfectant (eg 30 seconds in 10% hypochlorite (bleach) - other means of disinfection are also effective).
https://www.dechra.co.uk/companion-animal/exotics/e-cuniculi

Other technical vet papers:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7337189/

Personally, if I know I have a rabbit that is susceptible to reinfection, I am more vigilant with a full weekly cleanout and disinfect all suitable surfaces with a bleach solution, then air dry (preferably in sun for the UV effect), or Virkon S (as that can be used on fabrics as well). Otherwise, I still use bleach weekly but may not clean out eg. all the nest areas if they are not soiled, as it does generate a lot of additional waste doing it weekly, especially in winter with outside rabbits.

I'm sure Jane will know where the original recommendations came from, but I did a quick look and couldn't find them.

 

[SarahP]

I have failed to find the thread. I have a feeling it was presented at the RWF conference years ago...?? Could be totally wrong there.

 

[Liz47]

This is interesting thank you, as I'm currently treating Jake (and fern) and will do the clean, no harm it doing it even if it's just anecdotal to help

 

[InspectorMorse]

I believe the idea originated from a very old and relatively small study and I haven’t heard a Rabbit Savvy Vet refer to it in years.Personally I have only ever concentrated on good hygiene of areas that will be urine contaminated and taken precautions to minimise the ingestion of urine contaminated hay. I do that every day anyway, regardless of whether I have a Rabbit displaying clinical symptoms of EC or not.

 

[a reader of books]

that you've been wondering too makes me feel better! yes pls- report back

I asked mine years ago & she knew nothing of the advice above, just advocated good husbandry

I asked today, if disinfecting everything during treatment is necessary, and they said it's mostly the floor that's a good idea to disinfect (and the litter trays, I assume), but they didn't know anything about having to do it on specific days. I figure that if the spores are in the urine, there's no need to clean things that don't come in contact with urine, right? Especially if there isn't any food there that could be contaminated and then eaten, so like you I don't see why you'd need to disinfect every single thing.

 

[SarahP]

I believe the idea originated from a very old and relatively small study and I haven’t heard a Rabbit Savvy Vet refer to it in years.Personally I have only ever concentrated on good hygiene of areas that will be urine contaminated and taken precautions to minimise the ingestion of urine contaminated hay. I do that every day anyway, regardless of whether I have a Rabbit displaying clinical symptoms of EC or not.

It certainly was a very long time ago!

 

[joey&boo]

Thanks for all your posts & Shimmer thanks for all the info & sarah thanks for trying to locate the thread in question
Jane - I think this approach makes more sense & is what I do too Reader - I'm pleased your vet spoke of more targeted cleaning too.

I'm glad I asked

 

[Shimmer]

I asked today, if disinfecting everything during treatment is necessary, and they said it's mostly the floor that's a good idea to disinfect (and the litter trays, I assume), but they didn't know anything about having to do it on specific days. I figure that if the spores are in the urine, there's no need to clean things that don't come in contact with urine, right? Especially if there isn't any food there that could be contaminated and then eaten, so like you I don't see why you'd need to disinfect every single thing.

It's about considering where the spores are likely to be, so I would include anywhere / anything that has had (or may have had) paws on, or may have had urine flicked onto it. I wouldn't be doing the roof of a hutch every week, but would do the walls, for instance. If indoors, think about sofa / your bed / chairs, etc. Litter trays, food bowls and the nearby floor areas should get done more frequently as they would probably be the most contaminated areas.

 

[a reader of books]

It's about considering where the spores are likely to be, so I would include anywhere / anything that has had (or may have had) paws on, or may have had urine flicked onto it. I wouldn't be doing the roof of a hutch every week, but would do the walls, for instance. If indoors, think about sofa / your bed / chairs, etc. Litter trays, food bowls and the nearby floor areas should get done more frequently as they would probably be the most contaminated areas.

Ah, I see. I understand cleaning things that might have had urine flicked onto them, but I hadn't thought the amount of spores that got stuck to paws was very significant. If enough spores stay on their feet that they can be reinfected from things they've had their paws on, wouldn't they get reinfected simply by washing their paws?

 

[joey&boo]

Ah, I see. I understand cleaning things that might have had urine flicked onto them, but I hadn't thought the amount of spores that got stuck to paws was very significant. If enough spores stay on their feet that they can be reinfected from things they've had their paws on, wouldn't they get reinfected simply by washing their paws?

I'm guessing that during this period they would be on panacur so it might not be considered as problematic. However :lol: I though once they had EC they continue to carry it, reactivated at times of physical & emotional stress?? So maybe these measures are more for other (prob EC negative) bunnies to prevent infection in the first place. I need to know more about spores but at the same time can't be bothered

 

[Shimmer]

Yes, grooming their paws would be one of the main ways of them ingesting the spores.

 

[Shimmer]

Treatment with Panacur reduces the loading of the EC parasite in the rabbit - so it probably won't eliminate all of the EC, but reduces it to a level where it causes fewer issues. EC is a very common parasite. The spores that pass out in the urine are essentially the 'eggs' which are designed to remain viable for many months, wherever they land, until they are ingested by a suitable host (ie rabbit). While the parasite is in the rabbit, it is capable of causing a lot of cellular damage as it invades cells, multiplies and bursts out. Rabbits that are prone to EC symptoms really need to keep the potential parasitic loading down as far as possible to reduce the damage it causes. Some rabbits do seem to be far more prone to infection than others. In the groupings I've had, it's always been just one of 2 or 3 rabbits showing the typical symptoms, sometimes to quite a severe level, while the others sharing the same space appear to be unaffected.

Although EC spores are able to survive in the normal environment for a very long time, simple disinfection procedures will easily destroy it, so it's worth maintaining a good level of routine hygienic practices (eg weekly clean of hard surfaces with bleach solution). It's also a good idea to paint wooden surfaces inside a hutch to enable it to be cleaned properly, as that is where there is likely to be a collection of urine. Unfinished wood will soak up urine and provide tiny crevices for the spores to hang out in. It's so much easier to wipe down a painted surface than to scrub and then dry an unpainted one.