Bonding - Pulling my hair out!!!!

[shannon321]

So on sunday morning i started seriously bonding my two again, they have been living side by side for months now and been dating.
Heres a little run down -

Day 1 - I moved them into our porch which is neutral to them and i set up a bed and spent a whole 24hours in there with them, including sleeping in there. It all went well, no bad behaviour. Lots of grooming and flopping near each other barely any humping.

Day 2 - They spent the day in a run outside, again went well although sammy (neutered male) had about half an hour of incessant humping, i gave him a time out for 10 mins in a carrier within the run and after that the day went with out trouble. The night they spent in the porch with me checking on the hour every hour

Day 3 -All went fine till the 6am check when some fur had been flying but no injuries and they where fine for the rest of the day, i then checked them at 11, 3 and 6 last night they where fine till the 6 am check again and lots of fur had been flying, i slept with my door wide open right near the porch so i'm suprised they didn't wake me. Sammy has had his front teeth removed so no injuries to bun bun but sammy had a little nip to his rump.

So now we are at day four and i'm at a loss as to what to do, my partner was off all weekend so it was easy to have someone with them constantly for the first 3 days but i had hoped by day four they would be able to be left for an hour or two as he's at work and i have a dog to walk, horse to do and a few errends to run but i don't feel happy leaving them but i also would be gutted to seperate them after putting in so much work over the last three days!

What seems to be happening is bun bun (spayed female) is humping sammy and he starts the fights, when sammy humps bun bun she tolarates it very well to a certain point them trys to get away which is where i step in and seperate him. After sammy starts the fight if bun bun goes any where near him he lunges at her and trys to start fur pulling. Generally ten mins in the carrier seems to reset him and she can then approach him with out him lunging but this morning that doesn't seem to be working and he keeps lunging for her so i'm now at a loss, should i seperate them? DOes this mean i wont ever be able to bond them ? i'm so tired and feel like the last 3 days have been a complete waste of my time

 

[shannon321]

They've just had another massive scrap, this time bun bun has nipped his side and while its not bad its drawn blood so i officially give up these last three days where a complete waste of time.

IF anyone knows of someone who will bond in cornwall for me let me know.

 

[Hele]

Awwww no Sorry, can't really help. The closest person I know who could is Glos way. But didn't want to read and run, it's sounds like this weekend has been tough on you xxx

 

[shannon321]

thank you yes its been very tough feels like such a waste of time!

I'd be happy to drive them as far as plymouth as thats 1hour 30 to 2 hours away, is there any rescues that way that offer the service does any one know?

thank you.

 

[Babsie]

The only suggestion I can make is that perhaps you moved them from your porch into a larger area (outside in the run too soon.

I think it is advised that they are kept in a small neutral area, with constant supervision) for longer than a day.

Perhaps you could start off in the porch again (neutralised again to get rid of smells) - but someone needs to be there all the time to supervise and break-up any serious fighting.

Don't give up - from what I've read it really does take quite a long time but is well worth it in the end.

 

[shannon321]

i don't think that putting them in the run was the problem as the problems didn't start till last night a full 36 + hours since they where in the run.

They had constant supervision for 3 days, i cant possibly give more than that and the next time i'll even have 3 days where they can have constant supervision is going to be a long time away, so i shan't be trying again any time soon as after this huge waste of time i don't have the time nor patience for it!

What i don't understand is why the first two days went so well then it went pair shape when nothing changed? inbetween fighting they where happily sharing hay from the same bowl etc ?

 

[natsusakura]

Your experience sounds very similar to mine.
Angel (un-neutered female) is now bonded with Parsley (neutered male)
Just like with your two everything was fine at the start and then Angel decided to try for dominance, plus she is a bit hormonal.
Parsley is quite docile and accepted it for a minute then turns the tables.
Me and the OH were really frustrated as they were pulling fur and Angel had a scratch on her ear, a tuft of fur pulled out at her eye, and a small cut on her brow. We had been keeping them in separate cages next to each other and swapping them every 2nd night or so, to get used to each others scent.
And when they were let out to play we let them run around a small area of the living room.
So we changed our tactics.
Took them both for a wee drive a couple of times, both in a washing basket, with a towel inside and a towel on top, to stop them jumping out. (Get your OH to drive and you sit in the back, in case of scuffles)
They snuggled in the basket, we went for a half hour drive each time. Then when we got home I sat with them both inside our small circular run.
I held Angel on my lap, and allowed Parsley to come sniff her as he wanted.
Then I sat Angel down facing him and stroked both their heads together, so they'd associate being stroked with being with each other, and more importantly being nice!
Made sure there were loads of herbs and hay etc to distract them. They were still being kept in separate cages each night, right next to each other.
When it was going really well inside the small run we let them back out into the rest of the living room. Parsley got a bit humpy, and I stoked Angel to keep her calm, and to stop her from jumping up straight away to chase him.
Then I stroked both of their heads at same time again. They both learned to just lie next to each other for noserubs.
Next stage, after I was happy that they were being nice to each other, without any mishaps for a few days, was to let them be in the same place overnight with me sleeping in the same room.
One thing I found helpful was to keep the sessions in the pen short and sweet, and if there was a slight scuffle to distract with noserubs then give a wee treat to both the buns, then separate for a while.
It can be really frustrating and so often it's one step forward and two back, but if you persevere then it can work
And it's lovely to see them snuggle and groom each other. Angel can't bear to be without him now :lol:
Sorry for the long post, but hope my experience helps you a bit!

 

[natsusakura]

How's it all going?

 

[Dave81]

I agree that moving them outside was probably too soon, I believe it needs to happen slower with the bonding pen been increased in size gradually.

I'm no expert though so could be totally wrong with what I've said

 

[runhardlivelong]

How about a car ride to snuggle close to each other? Or put them in a bath?!

I can't help with bonding places as I am in Liverpool but I think its really good to send them to a rescue, thats what I did with Walter and Lola and they have been great together.

Persevere, you are doing everything you can!