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Bonding Diary - Anna and Abby
- Thread starter nessar
- Start date
Oh really? Anna and Barney's bonding was so easy, there was humping and chasing but no aggression in it, and they allowed each other to rest and eat. This is a completely different kettle of fish - I knew it would be more difficult but I thought that once they sorted out the hierarchy it would settle, but Abby has been nothing but submissive after the first half an hour, which was about this time yesterday.
Day 2
So we have made progress today. The box was great last night as it allowed Abby some rest and let her hide from Anna, but I removed it this morning as they were just avoiding each other and staying on separate sides of the pen. Removing the box helped and Anna has been letting Abby eat and wash, but she'll allow a small amount of movement and then suddenly snap and charge in lunging at Abby, chasing her again. We did however have instances of Anna choosing to sit just a foot away from Abby, and she was sniffing her face as well, but as soon as Abby moved or went to sniff her back, on the face or the side, Anna would try and bite her and the chasing started again. Anna has stopped stamping as much but Abby has started stamping whenever she is being chased.
This afternoon the sides were still apparent, and Anna was going for Abby if she went too near 'her' side. So we popped them in a neutralised carrier and my partner kept a close eye on them whilst I redid the pen and changed the soiled puppy pads. They were really good in the carrier and Anna didn't bite Abby at all, and they didn't seem to mind that body contact, which is a big change from being in the pen. At one point Anna sniffed and leaned up against Abby, resting her head on her back. The pen has been made smaller, now 160cm x 80cm, pic below, it still occupies the same part of the room, just in the middle of the area they current had, which means it cuts off both the 'sides' that they were camping out in. They are now occupying all parts of the pen which is good.
They are now chasing every half an hour or so, but the chasing goes on for longer as Abby can't get as far away to diffuse the aggression. Abby has approached Anna a few times to make friends, even going and sitting next to her, but it always ends with Anna trying to bite and chase her. Anna also just went nose to nose with Abby, then nipped her face. The big plus side of today is that Abby is eating and drinking well now, and is calming down between incidents.
I am keeping a close eye on them and my partner and I will be taking turns watching them and sleeping downstairs, as I'm don't think it's safe to sleep with them as they are. Last night I did 10pm - 3am and he did 3am-8am.
Pic of the new pen:
So we have made progress today. The box was great last night as it allowed Abby some rest and let her hide from Anna, but I removed it this morning as they were just avoiding each other and staying on separate sides of the pen. Removing the box helped and Anna has been letting Abby eat and wash, but she'll allow a small amount of movement and then suddenly snap and charge in lunging at Abby, chasing her again. We did however have instances of Anna choosing to sit just a foot away from Abby, and she was sniffing her face as well, but as soon as Abby moved or went to sniff her back, on the face or the side, Anna would try and bite her and the chasing started again. Anna has stopped stamping as much but Abby has started stamping whenever she is being chased.
This afternoon the sides were still apparent, and Anna was going for Abby if she went too near 'her' side. So we popped them in a neutralised carrier and my partner kept a close eye on them whilst I redid the pen and changed the soiled puppy pads. They were really good in the carrier and Anna didn't bite Abby at all, and they didn't seem to mind that body contact, which is a big change from being in the pen. At one point Anna sniffed and leaned up against Abby, resting her head on her back. The pen has been made smaller, now 160cm x 80cm, pic below, it still occupies the same part of the room, just in the middle of the area they current had, which means it cuts off both the 'sides' that they were camping out in. They are now occupying all parts of the pen which is good.
They are now chasing every half an hour or so, but the chasing goes on for longer as Abby can't get as far away to diffuse the aggression. Abby has approached Anna a few times to make friends, even going and sitting next to her, but it always ends with Anna trying to bite and chase her. Anna also just went nose to nose with Abby, then nipped her face. The big plus side of today is that Abby is eating and drinking well now, and is calming down between incidents.
I am keeping a close eye on them and my partner and I will be taking turns watching them and sleeping downstairs, as I'm don't think it's safe to sleep with them as they are. Last night I did 10pm - 3am and he did 3am-8am.
Pic of the new pen:
Day 3
Bunnies are very tired after a night of chasing.
Anna is still lunging at Abby if she comes near, and randomly for no apparent reason. They are maintaining a good distance from each other. She is also approaching Abby more peacefully at times, but Abby is now so nervous of her that she runs off, which sets Anna off chasing her again.
They were chasing for so long early this morning on my partner's watch, that he put them in the carrier to stop it. Not to take them anywhere, or stress them out, just had the carrier sitting on the bed with him so they couldn't chase any longer. He says they calmed down and sat next to each other peacefully for 40 minutes until he put them back in the pen. Since then, they've been chasing every hour or so.
I'm hoping we can make more progress today, as we only have till Saturday to get them to a place where they can spend time together unsupervised safely.
Any ideas welcome
Bunnies are very tired after a night of chasing.
Anna is still lunging at Abby if she comes near, and randomly for no apparent reason. They are maintaining a good distance from each other. She is also approaching Abby more peacefully at times, but Abby is now so nervous of her that she runs off, which sets Anna off chasing her again.
They were chasing for so long early this morning on my partner's watch, that he put them in the carrier to stop it. Not to take them anywhere, or stress them out, just had the carrier sitting on the bed with him so they couldn't chase any longer. He says they calmed down and sat next to each other peacefully for 40 minutes until he put them back in the pen. Since then, they've been chasing every hour or so.
I'm hoping we can make more progress today, as we only have till Saturday to get them to a place where they can spend time together unsupervised safely.
Any ideas welcome
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Day 4 - getting worried -advice needed
We did not make much progress yesterday. During the day the chasing/lunging decreased to every hour or two, and was just when Abby dared get too close or was moving hay about too vigorously. But then all through the night Anna has been stamping, nipping, lunging and chasing Abby every 20 mins or so. The chasing generally only lasts a few seconds now, the main issue is the nipping, which has increased.
They are not spending any time next to each other, and when they do approach each other it ends with Anna nipping Abby, usually on the face now. The only time they have been in body contact is when they were in the carrier or when we had to do a quick run round with the hoover as the bedroom current resembles a stable. Most of the time they are sitting at opposite ends of the pen. They are both comfortable enough to wash, eat, sleep and lie with their legs kicked out, & we had a flop from Anna yesterday.
So I have a problem - in just over 24 hours we will need to leave them unsupervised for 6 hours, we have to go out tomorrow and cannot avoid it. After that, we'll have another day of bonding and then it's back to work on Monday.
So I either need this bond to really progress in the next 24 hours, or I may have to split them whilst I can't supervise. I don't want to split them, as I feel we'll take a few steps back.
What can I do to reduce the aggression from Anna and increase their interaction? My partner wants to decrease the pen to 80cmx80cm but I'm not sure this is a good idea? Help please! :wave:
We did not make much progress yesterday. During the day the chasing/lunging decreased to every hour or two, and was just when Abby dared get too close or was moving hay about too vigorously. But then all through the night Anna has been stamping, nipping, lunging and chasing Abby every 20 mins or so. The chasing generally only lasts a few seconds now, the main issue is the nipping, which has increased.
They are not spending any time next to each other, and when they do approach each other it ends with Anna nipping Abby, usually on the face now. The only time they have been in body contact is when they were in the carrier or when we had to do a quick run round with the hoover as the bedroom current resembles a stable. Most of the time they are sitting at opposite ends of the pen. They are both comfortable enough to wash, eat, sleep and lie with their legs kicked out, & we had a flop from Anna yesterday.
So I have a problem - in just over 24 hours we will need to leave them unsupervised for 6 hours, we have to go out tomorrow and cannot avoid it. After that, we'll have another day of bonding and then it's back to work on Monday.
So I either need this bond to really progress in the next 24 hours, or I may have to split them whilst I can't supervise. I don't want to split them, as I feel we'll take a few steps back.
What can I do to reduce the aggression from Anna and increase their interaction? My partner wants to decrease the pen to 80cmx80cm but I'm not sure this is a good idea? Help please! :wave:
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Horace the Bold
Alpha Buck
Bumping you up
I have no experience of bonding, but I would put a barrier between them when they are unsupervised. This looks like it is going to be a slow bond [emoji45]
I have no experience of bonding, but I would put a barrier between them when they are unsupervised. This looks like it is going to be a slow bond [emoji45]
You can't leave them together for 6 hours if you are not happy. The thing which would be worrying me the most is all the stress could bring on sickness. And, if like in Daphnephoebe's case, it takes 3 months for them to live harmoniously together, I would question is it really worth it as they are not young bunnies.
Yes I wouldn't leave them together unattended without seeing a massive improvement on today. I just don't know what to do to help them get there...
Abby did just approach Anna very tentatively, groom her face briefly and then hop off, which is new. What is better is that Anna let her do it and didn't bite her!
I don't think they're too stressed currently, both are relaxed now and eating and sleeping well, and Abby flopped earlier. They are fine as long as there is some distance between them, it's just when they get closer now that Anna has an issue with
I just dont know whether to just leave them as they are or whether to try something new to help them along.
Abby did just approach Anna very tentatively, groom her face briefly and then hop off, which is new. What is better is that Anna let her do it and didn't bite her!
I don't think they're too stressed currently, both are relaxed now and eating and sleeping well, and Abby flopped earlier. They are fine as long as there is some distance between them, it's just when they get closer now that Anna has an issue with
I just dont know whether to just leave them as they are or whether to try something new to help them along.I got my wish and this afternoon we have seen lots and lots of progress!
Abby has been grooming Anna a LOT - and Anna has been really enjoying it. Abby did present for grooming twice but Anna stamped instead, but didnt nip her. Abby has also decided that she wants to be near Anna all the time, so they are generally less than 2 foot apart now - although Anna isn't always happy with this she is for the most part allowing it. We have also had lying together!
Abby has also humped Anna today, which is strange, and she also nipped Anna after Anna objected to her sniffing her. She is growing more confident.
Anna's behaviour has changed as well, and is no longer chasing. Instead she is stamping a fair bit and thrusting her head forward in a threatening manner, like a mini lunge but not trying to bite, which is usually enough to make Abby hop off sharpish. When annoyed, Anna will stamp, then if Abby doesn't move she will head-thrust, then if she doesn't heed these warnings, she'll nip her face. We have also had 2 instances of using her front paws to smack her, which is new. But it is good that she is warning her, and most of the time these behaviours are provoked by Abby sniffing her bum/back or Abby not moving out of her way.
I'll see how they are overnight, as they are generally worse then. Whilst I really don't want to separate them, I think dividing the pen in 2 may be the safer option, I just hope it doesn't cause them to take a step back!
Here is a pic of them lying together for the first time, that my partner took, its hard to see but he said Abby was snuggling her head into Anna's neck
Abby has been grooming Anna a LOT - and Anna has been really enjoying it. Abby did present for grooming twice but Anna stamped instead, but didnt nip her. Abby has also decided that she wants to be near Anna all the time, so they are generally less than 2 foot apart now - although Anna isn't always happy with this she is for the most part allowing it. We have also had lying together!
Abby has also humped Anna today, which is strange, and she also nipped Anna after Anna objected to her sniffing her. She is growing more confident.
Anna's behaviour has changed as well, and is no longer chasing. Instead she is stamping a fair bit and thrusting her head forward in a threatening manner, like a mini lunge but not trying to bite, which is usually enough to make Abby hop off sharpish. When annoyed, Anna will stamp, then if Abby doesn't move she will head-thrust, then if she doesn't heed these warnings, she'll nip her face. We have also had 2 instances of using her front paws to smack her, which is new. But it is good that she is warning her, and most of the time these behaviours are provoked by Abby sniffing her bum/back or Abby not moving out of her way.
I'll see how they are overnight, as they are generally worse then. Whilst I really don't want to separate them, I think dividing the pen in 2 may be the safer option, I just hope it doesn't cause them to take a step back!
Here is a pic of them lying together for the first time, that my partner took, its hard to see but he said Abby was snuggling her head into Anna's neck
That looks very promising and with more time I think you will get there! Just a little worry if you divide the pen - Anna might get territorial at this stage. If you want to make sure they are safe when you aren't there, I would pop them back into their original housing until you get home.
Days 5 & 6
So yesterday was day 5, and we had to split them whilst we went out. When we put them back together, we put them in the carrier first, as they are much better in there for some reason. I cleaned out the pen whilst they were in the carrier, Then we put them in and there was some nipping and chasing and stamping, but also some grooming from Abby.
For the last couple of nights I've been sleeping next to them instead of staying up. I was woken a few times by incidents of chasing/Anna generally being unpleasant. Then at 2am Anna started chasing Abby and just wouldn't stop, so they went back in the carrier to calm down. They stayed in the carrier for approx 40 mins, and during that time ate together, lay down companionably, Abby groomed Anna and Anna even gave Abby a few licks! Im guessing this bout of negative behaviours was caused by them being separated earlier that day.
Then back in the pen and they were pretty good, no chasing and just a couple of nips, but again they were relaxed but sitting at opposite ends of the pen. We thought about how good they were in the carrier, and wondered whether it was the smaller space, so this afternoon we made the pen smaller, it is now 80cmx80cm. Since then we've had some nipping incidents from both parties, and a little stomping from Anna, but lots and lots of grooming (from Abby not Anna) and lots of lying together.
Tomorrow they'll be separated for about 11 hours whilst we're at work, so I'm hoping we don't have a repeat of last night when we put them back together.
Typically, as I'm writing this though, my partner dropped the water bowl which made a huge crash, and which for some reason prompted Abby to hump Anna a LOT, which then has caused some chasing and circling :roll:
Anyway, a picture of calmer times:
So yesterday was day 5, and we had to split them whilst we went out. When we put them back together, we put them in the carrier first, as they are much better in there for some reason. I cleaned out the pen whilst they were in the carrier, Then we put them in and there was some nipping and chasing and stamping, but also some grooming from Abby.
For the last couple of nights I've been sleeping next to them instead of staying up. I was woken a few times by incidents of chasing/Anna generally being unpleasant. Then at 2am Anna started chasing Abby and just wouldn't stop, so they went back in the carrier to calm down. They stayed in the carrier for approx 40 mins, and during that time ate together, lay down companionably, Abby groomed Anna and Anna even gave Abby a few licks! Im guessing this bout of negative behaviours was caused by them being separated earlier that day.
Then back in the pen and they were pretty good, no chasing and just a couple of nips, but again they were relaxed but sitting at opposite ends of the pen. We thought about how good they were in the carrier, and wondered whether it was the smaller space, so this afternoon we made the pen smaller, it is now 80cmx80cm. Since then we've had some nipping incidents from both parties, and a little stomping from Anna, but lots and lots of grooming (from Abby not Anna) and lots of lying together.
Tomorrow they'll be separated for about 11 hours whilst we're at work, so I'm hoping we don't have a repeat of last night when we put them back together.
Typically, as I'm writing this though, my partner dropped the water bowl which made a huge crash, and which for some reason prompted Abby to hump Anna a LOT, which then has caused some chasing and circling :roll:
Anyway, a picture of calmer times:
Days 7 & 8
Good news! We spoke to Abby's owners and we will be keeping her whether or not the bond works out.
We have been splitting them whilst we are at work and then putting them together for the night time, I've been sleeping next to them and waking up to stop excessive chasing.
Things are looking good - there has been lots of lying down together snuggling. There is still some chasing and nipping but not a lot. Abby has however taken up humping Anna, and she's not very impressed. Mostly she tolerates it but often it will cause a spat of growling or chasing. I'm not quite sure why Abby is so humpy all of a sudden - she's meant to be the submissive one. It doesn't seem related to food or anything.
So alll in all a positive couple of days !
Good news! We spoke to Abby's owners and we will be keeping her whether or not the bond works out.
We have been splitting them whilst we are at work and then putting them together for the night time, I've been sleeping next to them and waking up to stop excessive chasing.
Things are looking good - there has been lots of lying down together snuggling. There is still some chasing and nipping but not a lot. Abby has however taken up humping Anna, and she's not very impressed. Mostly she tolerates it but often it will cause a spat of growling or chasing. I'm not quite sure why Abby is so humpy all of a sudden - she's meant to be the submissive one. It doesn't seem related to food or anything.
So alll in all a positive couple of days !
Days 9 - 14
Sorry I haven't updated this for a few days! To recap - Anna is the larger black spayed doe and Abby is the smaller orange unspayed doe. Most of last week they were together for 4 hours each evening, and as a general rule, for the first hour Abby would frequently hump Anna, Anna would nip and chase Abby, then they'd settle down.
On Friday, Abby got a tiny scratch on her eyelid, so I separated them so she could rest. It is healing well. My BF then flea treated them Saturday and put them together that afternoon as they both seemed fine, but when I got home from work I saw that they had both reacted to the flea stuff, so again I separated them.
So they finally went back together properly (hopefully for good this time!) yesterday, and my BF has this week off work so we can bond them. There has been lots of humping from Abby, and grooming from both. I'm surprised that Anna has groomed Abby, even only a couple of times, as she never groomed her old husbun Barney. It seems like the power balance is shifting, but Abby still goes back to being submissive if Anna lunges or otherwise gets annoyed.
Apparently they have been very good today, there has been a little humping and nipping but mostly they have just been snuggled up. Their main problem seems to be that when one bunny wants to get up, the other one gets cross with them!
Sorry I haven't updated this for a few days! To recap - Anna is the larger black spayed doe and Abby is the smaller orange unspayed doe. Most of last week they were together for 4 hours each evening, and as a general rule, for the first hour Abby would frequently hump Anna, Anna would nip and chase Abby, then they'd settle down.
On Friday, Abby got a tiny scratch on her eyelid, so I separated them so she could rest. It is healing well. My BF then flea treated them Saturday and put them together that afternoon as they both seemed fine, but when I got home from work I saw that they had both reacted to the flea stuff, so again I separated them.
So they finally went back together properly (hopefully for good this time!) yesterday, and my BF has this week off work so we can bond them. There has been lots of humping from Abby, and grooming from both. I'm surprised that Anna has groomed Abby, even only a couple of times, as she never groomed her old husbun Barney. It seems like the power balance is shifting, but Abby still goes back to being submissive if Anna lunges or otherwise gets annoyed.
Apparently they have been very good today, there has been a little humping and nipping but mostly they have just been snuggled up. Their main problem seems to be that when one bunny wants to get up, the other one gets cross with them!
Day 15 - the first day with no squabbling!
I have been informed that they have been really good today, with no squabbling! We had a little humping this morning, and then all day they have been inseparable.
They have been snuggled up all day, and whenever one moves to go to the litter tray or eat, the other follows
They are still wary of each other around their bums, but that's understandable since they have spent two weeks nipping and humping each other's bottoms!
Apparently they have been like this pretty much all day:
I'm just hoping the bunny love continues during the night, as nighttime is when they bicker most.
I have been informed that they have been really good today, with no squabbling! We had a little humping this morning, and then all day they have been inseparable.
They have been snuggled up all day, and whenever one moves to go to the litter tray or eat, the other follows
They are still wary of each other around their bums, but that's understandable since they have spent two weeks nipping and humping each other's bottoms!
Apparently they have been like this pretty much all day:
I'm just hoping the bunny love continues during the night, as nighttime is when they bicker most.
Horace the Bold
Alpha Buck
Fingers crossed it continues to go well for you and the bunnies
