best set up for 2 giant continentals?

[carah]

Hi, this is really premature as my buns are not getting along at all,but i'm hoping fat fluffs can help me with bonding them by the time warmer weather shows its face. I'd like to be prepared for if they do bond.

They are currently housed in my kitchen/conservatory in separate hutches which they are obviously rapidly growing out of. They have free roam of downstairs (in seperate rooms) until we go to bed then they go back in their hutches for the night.

I was looking at moving them outdoors once it gets warmer so i looked at housing with as much space as possible, i thought chicken coops may be good as there was a 13ft one including partially covered run which would provide great space for them to play safe outside...... but it looks like unless i did some major DIY to make the indoor bit large enough for the two buns to sleep (which i really cant see myself doing) means this option is a no go, The steps also look abit steep and not sure if my buns could be bothered to jump up onto various objects to get in. Does anyone have a large chicken coop set up?
Would it work for such big bunnies baring in mind they are the size of cats already at 5-6 months old? I can only go by pictures and dimensions i've seen on supplier websites

So anyway, now i've looked at kennels with runs but would a 10ft x 4ft be enough for them?? Plus would it be ok during the winter? Do bunnies reject going indoors once outside? I've already got behavioral problems with my doe biting and dont want to make matters worse by her not being around us as much once outside.
I like the look of playhouses but cant find tall, covered ( as in has a top to it to stop cats getting them) runs that are ready made, does everyone just buy the panels with mesh on then build them themselves?

I want something that is safe and easy to clean which doesn't require too much modification and that allows them enough space to roam and relax when they cant go free in the garden...........asking too much???

I was originally hoping they stay indoors but without the hutches...........But even if they bonded, Rosie constantly misses the litter tray and pees abit when she poops staining my tiles and carpets :roll: They both spray everywhere at the moment too but am hoping this could stop if they get on?
Would a dog bed be enough for them to sleep on (indoors) Any ideas for covered areas so they can hide away when they want some quiet time?

 

[Elena]

Not giants but mine sleep under my bed. They never sleep in their dog beds :roll: they much prefer their 'warren' under the bed with their blankets.

I really wouldn't go for a coop. In my opinion they aren't big enough even for small bunnies. The recommended minimum for two small rabbits is a 6x2 hutch and 8x4 run so you'd need at least that and a bit more. It works out about 44 sq ft so 10x4 might be slightly too small. I think I'd want at least 60 sq ft personally. My trio have double that and they're small to medium, but they're indoors and it's probably a bit easier to provide that indoors with one group.

There lots of ideas here that might help. Specifically the shed and playhouse setups might work well for you. You could maybe get a large shed and attach a large aviary to it. You can get made up aviary panels and then bolt them together to make a large aviary or run. Sometimes they come pre made. Make sure you lay mesh underneath and then turf or place on slabs and make sure it's secure. Foxes can lift runs and can also dig in, as can bunnies dig out.

http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?311878-Outdoor-Housing

As for the behavioural aspects, are they spayed? It's really important for them to get on and also to get on with you and your family. Once outside they can come back indoors but the problem is the temperature difference. So if it's 'just for play' then it needs to be only for a short period of time (30 mins?) and in a cool room. If it's permanently then it's best to gradually acclimatise so again a cool room to start with. Once indoors though they can't go back out unless the temperature outside is similar to in, so between the late spring and summer months.

If they aren't spayed then that could explain the spraying as well. I use high sided underbed storage trays, makes it impossible for weewee to go over the edge. One of mine sometimes wees outside of the box (she has, shall we say, issues?! Most rabbits once spayed are pretty clean and tidy.) but I clean it up with white wine vinegar and it doesn't stain. Fortunately she only ever does small wees!

 

[carah]

thanks that was really helpful
They are both spayed she was last done 5 weeks ago now and has completely changed from coming upto us and lying down for cuddles to spraying and biting
She attacks Jim ( the buck) at every opportunity, no matter what distractions are there. I gave up trying to bond them but was naughty last night and tried to get a good little meeting going as Jim had lay next to the mesh gate that separates them when out of their hutches. He looked like he was loved up and she kept biting the gate to get in ( for some reason he thought it would be a good idea to keep following her mouth and had a few nips off her)she didnt seem fussed about him. Sooooo i gave in and got them together in a corner of a room with cauliflower leaves , they were quite happy munching away then he went astray and she wasnt impressed.......alot of fluff and a bite to the ear later and i feel that iv completely failed so will take advice from forum posters and ask for fat fluffs help in a few weeks time From what iv'e read on here it sounds like he is letting her be the dominate but shes just carrying on being a cow bag someone said it may be her hormones still settling........i hope so, i want my old Rosie back Then again that doesnt explain his behaviour last night...............so confused!!!!!!

I would love for them to stay inside but she has become very messy although she does poop around the litter tray and attempts to wee in it, her hutch is covered in poop so needs cleaning out properly daily which in itself is a tiring and costly task, i think we would both benefit if she toileted outside. I cleaned all my walls/doors yesterday and i never had any idea that they could get it so far up the wall!! It was atleast 5ft up............i've never actually seen them do this which is all the more confusing.
I do not recall having any of this with any of my previous bunnies I just want them to get along and not be in blooming seperate hutches kicking out sawdust all over my floor and giving each other the evil eye threw mesh ...........fingers crossed for a good outcome (hopefully sooner rather than later)

 

[Elena]

Five weeks is a long time for her to still be hormonal although having said that, it took ages for my boy to loose his hormones after his neuter! Spraying tends to be more a boy thing though girls can do it. It could be due to being able to see and smell another bunny, even when they are neutered this can happen if they aren't bonded. I used to have two pairs and if one pair smelt the other pair, even through a closed door, one of them would spray the door and leave a large line of poops at the door!

Other people are more accomplished at bonding than me but it needs to be somewhere neutral, otherwise they start defending their territory. A place neither has been is best but not always practical! You can neutralise a room by spraying a solution of vinegar and water on everything from about three foot downwards, it stinks initially but it goes quite quick. It's also best to start with a small space initially and not to split them unless a fight breaks out. A fight is when they scramble on the floor in a ball, whereas mounting, chasing and pulling fur out is completely normal and is them sorting out whose the boss. When I first did my trio bond the first few days I seperated them at night, one of mine has issues with her breathing and she needed a bit of a rest. It can be done but tends to extend how long the bond takes and is best to keep them somewhere where they can see each other but not bite each other.

I know how frustrating it can be, I was desperate for my trio to bond and after the first few days when they were chasing all the time I really thought it was never, ever going to work, but it did. I'm sure with FatFluffs help you'll get there eventually It might be that you just need to give her a few more weeks for her hormones to die down completely. I think with Smudge it took a few months! Some just seem to take longer than others.

 

[Alexander]

Ginger, my male house rabbit, was a complete terror for a good 6-7 weeks after he was neutered. He started biting me for no apparent reason and I couldn't walk around with bare feet because I was scared he'd attack my ankles. He was obsessed with spraying by the front door (we eventually had to throw away the doormat and carpet there) and also weeing on the sofa. He did settle down after that though and being bonded with his friend Hettie also helped a lot. He was back to his perfect self again after a few more weeks, but I remember being at my wits end with him.

I really hope your female settles down too. I would wait and see what she's like after a few more weeks and after bonding before making any big decisions about future accommodation. If you do decide to go for the outside option, I don't think a chicken coop is a very good use of space for rabbits (we've got one for our chickens), but loads of people find playhouses/ sheds and aviaries a good option. We've got a walk-in aviary for our chickens which we built ourselves. Our rabbits live indoors and they have a variety of favourite places to hide and sleep. They're very tiny though, so it's tricky for me to suggest anything for giant rabbits. One thing that seems to be important to mine though is they like to have more than one entrance/ exit to any hiding place. They also love tunnels.

I hope things improve soon for you and your rabbits. Fat Fluffs seem really experienced with bonding and I'm sure they'll be able to help. For me, the few weeks around neutering were definitely the toughest time as a house rabbit owner so hopefully things will get better for you too.

Amy.

 

[carah]

Thanks guys,

I think i've come to the decision that the easiest option is to keep them as house rabbits weather they make friends or not. So i've set up a room for each of them which they have free roam of all day then go back in their hutches at night until they completely out grow them (i'll cross that bridge when i come to it) . The rooms are seperated by a mesh/fabric door guard so they can still see and smell each other (they both tend to lie on either side) Only trouble with this is, if or when they bond will these rooms then cause territory issues???? and is it ok to alternate them with entry to the lounge where we tend to be most? I was thinking Rosie could have the daytime and Jim could have until bedtime then theres abit of routine for them.

I've got Jim the cleaner one of the two in our games room which is carpeted and Rosie is in the kitchen/conservatory which is tiled, she has a bed aswell as her hutch incase she gets cold but i cant help but feel like shes being left out, i really dont know what i can do to make her happy at the moment and he seems to want her companionship.

 

[el1983]

Bella took ages to litter train, i got her a bigger litter box and she has been 99% better since then. I need to get another litter box for in the conservatory but i've just put some paper down in the corner she kept weeing in and she goes on that. Hope you get sorted.

 

[Elena]

Thanks guys,

I think i've come to the decision that the easiest option is to keep them as house rabbits weather they make friends or not. So i've set up a room for each of them which they have free roam of all day then go back in their hutches at night until they completely out grow them (i'll cross that bridge when i come to it) . The rooms are seperated by a mesh/fabric door guard so they can still see and smell each other (they both tend to lie on either side) Only trouble with this is, if or when they bond will these rooms then cause territory issues???? and is it ok to alternate them with entry to the lounge where we tend to be most? I was thinking Rosie could have the daytime and Jim could have until bedtime then theres abit of routine for them.

I've got Jim the cleaner one of the two in our games room which is carpeted and Rosie is in the kitchen/conservatory which is tiled, she has a bed aswell as her hutch incase she gets cold but i cant help but feel like shes being left out, i really dont know what i can do to make her happy at the moment and he seems to want her companionship.

If you thoroughly clean the rooms and take it gradually once bonded then it should be fine. My lionheads, Nutmeg and Smudge, used to live in the spare room and my lops, Mini and Mischa, used to live in my bedroom. My trio now live quite happily in both rooms plus the landing that joins them. I wouldn't swap them over, I would expect them to mark a lot more if you did as they'd feel unsettled.

 

[carah]

Bella took ages to litter train, i got her a bigger litter box and she has been 99% better since then. I need to get another litter box for in the conservatory but i've just put some paper down in the corner she kept weeing in and she goes on that. Hope you get sorted.

to be fair they have been really good at litter training, she just sticks her bum up in the air more than he does so it squirts over the edge :lol: but it looks like i may have fixed that today seeing as they arnt sharing a room they arnt scenting the litter tray plus i put a waterproof backed door mat under the trays and a plastic dog feeding mat behind the tray

 

[carah]

If you thoroughly clean the rooms and take it gradually once bonded then it should be fine. My lionheads, Nutmeg and Smudge, used to live in the spare room and my lops, Mini and Mischa, used to live in my bedroom. My trio now live quite happily in both rooms plus the landing that joins them. I wouldn't swap them over, I would expect them to mark a lot more if you did as they'd feel unsettled.

The only trouble i have with them not being in the lounge is that thats where they choose to toilet then they run off to the games room to lounge around and play ( although now jim can only go in there now so rosie is more likely to stay in the lounge once there as its carpeted)
I cleaned all my walls/ carpets yesterday and brought them all new bits and pieces today and i can happily say it looks like its been recieved positivly as theres no squirts up the wall and they havnt spent there whole free time scenting everything They have both been camped out by the door guard most of the day/night.
I will try rosie having free run of the lounge and kitchen in the morning and see what she does, if i bring all her bits in then fingers crossed she shouldnt make too much mess ( or thats what im hoping atleast) If this works out ok then i'll just have to get a double door guard to block their access to each other from lounge to games room as my toddler will be in and out of there getting his toys.

 

[Elena]

Unfortunately it is entirely natural for them to mark a room they haven't been in before. One of mine takes months in a new place to stop leaving puddles everywhere. They've been together since about November and she's only just stopping now. She just takes a long time to settle, probably due to her history. Most bunnies don't take that long though! She's a (nut) case! I have lino so it's a bit easier for me. Once she settled in their main room though she was more relaxed when they went into the other rooms and she hasn't marked those. Having them in one group has definitely helped as now there isn't any bunnies she doesn't 'know'.