Antisocial lady bun

[HannahB]

Right. A couple of months ago we list our beautiful 8 year old girl, leaving her 7 year old partner on his own. Within a couple of weeks we rescued Molly, a 4 (ish) year old spayed giant lop. It became clear quite quickly that Molly had spent her life until this point living alone - she didn't 'do' people and had no idea what bunnies are either. Naively, we attempted an introduction within a couple of days of her coming home, in a large space that neither bun had been to before (our office!). It went ok- they pretty much ignored eachother - but no fireworks if attraction.

A couple of weeks later we attempted another introduction at our home - again in a neutral area, having laid out lots of hay and food - and it went horribly. Like, really terrible. Harry went to mount Molly, who spun around and attacked him face on. They became locked in a dreadful spin and my husband and I had to separate them. Both had sustained nasty nips and we felt dreadful. We haven't attempted an introduction since, but adjusted their set up so they could get used to eachother a little better in a safe environment.

Their living arrangement are in separate cages, side by side so they can see eachother, smell eachother and be close (there's enough distance that they can't reach eachother!). We're having to let them out individually to exercise which isn't ideal, but works for now. They are both curious about eachother but become aggressive when approached by the other whilst in their cage, so we started propping up some clear Perspex around their cages so they can still see eachother but are protected when one is out hopping around. We decided to call a halt on further introductions until Molly showed more bunny-like behaviour, and just let them get used to eachother in the meantime. The idea is that Molly can watch Harry and hopefully see that he's 'safe' whilst she gets used to her new home. She's very nervous and is yet to explore the whole room, which makes me think that her aggression on the previous date was simply down to complete fear as she was terrified and didn't know what was happening. We've taken a hutch bunny who has lived on her own all her life, bought her into the house and expected her to bond with another bunny - it's a lot to ask.

Over the last week, Harry gas started to lie down next to her cage which is lovely! Molly, on the other hand, whilst growing hugely in confidence, has started pooing and peeing outside his cage when it's her turn for exercise and tonight she reached around the Perspex to try and nip him through the bars of his cage.

I don't know what to do about her pooing (which I can only assume is a territorial thing as she's becoming more confident...) and I'm literally scared stiff of introducing them again after the aggression last time.

I spoke to one of our wonderful bunny savvy vet nurses after the aggressive 'date' who told us to take our time as Molly has obviously not been socialised and simply doesn't know how to behave, but I'm starting to wonder if we ought to try another introduction soon as I'm wary of her current territorial behaviour becoming a habit if it's not nipped in the bud. I feel so bad as Harry just wants to make friends and Molly is being pretty horrid.

Sorry for such a long post! I know you guys will understand and if you have any pearls of wisdom I'd be so grateful

 

[tonibun]

It's really good that you are seeing things from your bunny's point of view. I wish I had some pearls of wisdom, or any other pearls would be nice for that matter! I think this has to be a very slow bond which I personally have never done. My New Zealand is very jumpy and attacked the boy I was trying to bond her with. She grabbed him round the neck and he looked so scared! So I have never tried again! She is neutered I suppose? And she is much bigger than your male rabbit? Sorry I have no advice but I wish you luck with this.

 

[HannahB]

Thanks, Tonibun. They're both neutered and similar sizes, although Molly is bigger than Harry. I thought that Harry would be the difficult one to rebond having lost his partner, but Molly is definitely the tricky one. Harry is showing interest in her and wants to say hello but she's definitely not feeling the same way towards him. We're taking it slow but I don't know how slow we can manage!

 

[Grasshopper]

I'm no expert at all but when my little male was bonded with our big boisterous lady, the RSPCA lady did it on his territory, to give him a bit of a boost. But if you think she attacked because she was feeling threatened then that sounds like it would be counter productive... How are you getting on socialising with her yourself?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

 

[daphnephoebe]

I too am so glad to see you thinking about this as if you're in the bunnies shoes. Not many people do this!

I agree with Tonibun about doing a slow bond. It may be worth, while they're living side by side swapping their cages on a daily basis as well to help them associate each others smells etc. I sometimes do this with difficult buns and I personally feel it helps.

I'd do the next bonding somewhere neither bunny can get a good "grip" such as a bath tub, but I wouldn't rush to get to this step. Her behaviour in a sense of marking etc shouldn't make much of a difference to how the next bonding experience will go and it may be easier to wait until you see her a little more relaxed around him/his cage as this will help give you confidence that she hasn't held a grudge over the negative bonding session previously.

If you're very nervous of it, you may benefit from trying to find somewhere that will do the bonding for you if you're comfortable with this. They often have more experience and a completely different environment with new people might be good for them both while attempting bonding.

You could also maybe look into use a couple of puppy pens to create a small run area off each cage to allow them both exercise in a similar size space (sometimes buns can get jealous of a bun with more room).

 

[Tamsin]

How they react at the territory boundary (the edge of the cage) isn't necessarily a good indicator of how they'll react somewhere neutral. Contested boundaries are the spot you'll get the worst behaviour so nipping noses through bars and weeing and piles of poop are all within normal range. The pooping isn't something that would concern me, it's just a rabbit saying this is my space and that's your space... and that's why we intro in a neutral space and then mix up the housing/neutralise before returning them once bonded.

The history or aggression in neutral territory is more of a worry, they can recall bad experiences and it's impossible to tell without trying it if it will work out ok or not. I'm not sure how long ago the last meet was? But continuing what you are doing may help - she's getting used to his scent and the way he moves. If you imagine she's not seen a rabbit move since she was weaned - they hop, and jump and sprint in unpredictable ways and it's very different to human movement.

 

[HannahB]

Hi Grasshopper. Socialising her with people is actually going really well! She came home a couple of months ago and was completely terrified of anyone getting close, but now if I'm sitting on the floor she'll come up to me, put her paws on my lap and ask for a head rub which is completely amazing. She's also coming out of her shell and playing a lot more, all the while in the same room as Harry. I stll don't feel she's confident enough to attempt another introduction just yet though, I think she still has a way to go.

Daphnephoebe, I'm seriously considering getting someone involved to help us with the bond. I'm so scared of them hurting eachother and I've no doubt that my anxiety is making an already tense introduction worse. In my mind, I've kind of decided that I want to see both of them happy enough to relax next to the others' cage before we go again. Harry seems to have let things go from last time enough to want to lie down right next to her cage, but she's not there yet. Someone else mentioned the bathtub thing but they're both so big (nearly 5kg each) that they'll pretty much fill the bath up! I've also read really ocnflicting things about giving them loads of space vs forcing them together in a tiny space and I don't know what's best. I'd feel happier if they had the room to moe away from eachother if a fight broke out as I personally think that the bathtub/ pet carrier idea puts an awful lot of stress on them and could make things more risky if a fight were to break out.

Tamsin - I'm mindful of the history, too, which is why I'm keen not to try again until both are more relaxed. The last attempt was probably a month ago now so quite a while. Harry is chilled enough about things and I don't think it's bothered him too much although I've no doubt he was very confused by her behaviour as his previous partner was so affectionate and I imagine he'd have expected the same from her having been bonded to his last partner for 7 years.

One thing that doesn't help is that Molly is also being medicated at the moment for an ear infection. She was initially on a month course of ear drops but as that hasn't quite cleared it up, we're doing another course to hopefully kick it. One lady I spoke to who helps with bonds wondered if that might not help as Molly will be smelling quite odd and also potentially feeling under the weather and a bit less friendly. I might wait out the current course of ear drops (should be another 3 weeks) and then try agian. It'll give them both more time to get used to eachother, plus my husband and I will be at home more over Christmas so should be able to let them both out for more time giving them more opportunity to watch each other and relax.

 

[tulsi]

I agree with you about waiting until Molly is over her infection before trying any more bonding.

 

[daphnephoebe]

One thing that doesn't help is that Molly is also being medicated at the moment for an ear infection. She was initially on a month course of ear drops but as that hasn't quite cleared it up, we're doing another course to hopefully kick it. One lady I spoke to who helps with bonds wondered if that might not help as Molly will be smelling quite odd and also potentially feeling under the weather and a bit less friendly. I might wait out the current course of ear drops (should be another 3 weeks) and then try agian. It'll give them both more time to get used to eachother, plus my husband and I will be at home more over Christmas so should be able to let them both out for more time giving them more opportunity to watch each other and relax.

Waiting until she's 100% healthy is best as she may be acting defensive/aggressive because she feels vulnerable.
I missed the fact that they are giants so maybe using the bath won't be a good idea. I tend to change bonding space depending on interactions - if they cope well in a small space I allow more room. If they don't cope well with a larger space they have all their bonding in a small area. I try to start with a medium size space (around 25sqft) and adjust from there.

Good luck with the future bonding - I hope it goes well and if you decide to get help that you find someone who has a good amount of experience.

 

[Tamsin]

I concur I'd definately wait until she's 100%, sore ears can make a bun grumpy!

 

[HannahB]

Thanks, Daphnephoebe. I have someone in mind who worked at a rescue centre and has done quite a few bunny bonds but keeping an eye out for anyone else in the Kent area who might be able to help, too!