Advice and Help RE: Jaw Abcess U/D Post 20

[Cari]

I'm having a second opinion in Northampton with a very bunny savvy vet. I couldn't get to Manor Vets in time for the free consultation and I've had a very good recommendation for the vets we're going to on Tuesday.

Her abcess is now turning purple. The vet saw it yesterday when she went for her injection (vet wanted to check I was comfortable to do it - crikey buns have thick skin...) and thinks it's going to burst open, it has a scab on it and is wet to touch.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

My first thought when you said the vet put her on Baytril was that if it were me, I would have her looked at and evaluated by a very rabbit savvy vet. Also, having known several bunnies who have not survived very long having had most/all of their teeth removed, I personally would not go down that route either.

Depocillin and manuka honey are what I have found to be most effective against jaw abscesses. I don't believe *all* rabbits are in pain with their abscesses, but they sure hate being fiddled with to get the wound cleaned!

I wish you all the very best with your bunny

Unfortunately, not that they would ever admit it, but bunnies that do badly after teeth removal are usually operated on by inexperienced, over-ambitious vets, who to be blunt make a right mess of it and then leave the bunnies to suffer afterwards. Before you all shout me down, I have had 2 buns over the years who had teeth removed and they positively thrived afterwards and were both eating the next day, but then there is a whole world of difference when your vet is a highly experienced, extremely specialised bunny vet, who does numerous dentals and extractions every week. You know what they say about 'practice makes perfect'.

Oh and there is also something else that I need to say, because far too many bunnies on this forum are suffering (no offence intended to anyone), because of owners sadly putting misguided trust in their vets and assuming that they know what they are talking about. Seriously, if you take your bun to a vet with an abscess or any kind of infection at all to be honest, and they prescribe you Baytril, then my advice to you, and this has also come from my vet, you may just as well save your money, and go and fill your syringes with water, because that is as much good as Baytril will do. Honestly my heart just sinks when I keep reading about these poor buns who have been struggling with various infections for weeks, sometimes months, and all their vet keeps prescribing is Baytril.

There will be people that will disagree with me, but I can honestly say my vet has never given any of my buns Baytril, and he has no faith in it whatsoever, and there is actually a very good reason for that, and that is because it does NOT work!!! Over the years I have presented bunnies with Pasterella, abscesses, respiratory infections, strokes, EC, to Simon. You name it and he has seen it, and not once has he prescribed Baytril, not once has he left the bunny for any time longer than 48hrs, before if no improvement has been seen, obtaining a culture and then administering the appropriate treatment, and actually these things are not the terrible things people usually think they are, not if your vet is at all clued up and knows what drugs are really needed to treat the problem, but at the end of the day, the real problem believe it or not is THE VETS!!!!!

There is only one condition as yet that Simon has not successfully treated for me, and that was when my severely disabled bunny, Roger, last year developed a brain tumour, but to be fair Roger was a good age and with all his disabilities, we were up against a wall so to speak. I think what I am also trying to say is don't let your vets intimidate you or fob you off. At the end of the day, you are the paying client, and all that matters really is your buns well-being, and if you are not happy about something or not sure that what your vet is suggesting is the appropriate treatment, then you are well within your rights to get him/her to explain themselves.

Sorry Cari, for hijacking your thread, just too many 'Baytril Buns' on the forum going nowhere, and definitely not getting any better :evil:

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Unfortunately, not that they would ever admit it, but bunnies that do badly after teeth removal are usually operated on by inexperienced, over-ambitious vets, who to be blunt make a right mess of it and then leave the bunnies to suffer afterwards. Before you all shout me down, I have had 2 buns over the years who had teeth removed and they positively thrived afterwards and were both eating the next day, but then there is a whole world of difference when your vet is a highly experienced, extremely specialised bunny vet, who does numerous dentals and extractions every week. You know what they say about 'practice makes perfect'.

Oh and there is also something else that I need to say, because far too many bunnies on this forum are suffering (no offence intended to anyone), because of owners sadly putting misguided trust in their vets and assuming that they know what they are talking about. Seriously, if you take your bun to a vet with an abscess or any kind of infection at all to be honest, and they prescribe you Baytril, then my advice to you, and this has also come from my vet, you may just as well save your money, and go and fill your syringes with water, because that is as much good as Baytril will do. Honestly my heart just sinks when I keep reading about these poor buns who have been struggling with various infections for weeks, sometimes months, and all their vet keeps prescribing is Baytril.

There will be people that will disagree with me, but I can honestly say my vet has never given any of my buns Baytril, and he has no faith in it whatsoever, and there is actually a very good reason for that, and that is because it does NOT work!!! Over the years I have presented bunnies with Pasterella, abscesses, respiratory infections, strokes, EC, to Simon. You name it and he has seen it, and not once has he prescribed Baytril, not once has he left the bunny for any time longer than 48hrs, before if no improvement has been seen, obtaining a culture and then administering the appropriate treatment, and actually these things are not the terrible things people usually think they are, not if your vet is at all clued up and knows what drugs are really needed to treat the problem, but at the end of the day, the real problem believe it or not is THE VETS!!!!!

There is only one condition as yet that Simon has not successfully treated for me, and that was when my severely disabled bunny, Roger, last year developed a brain tumour, but to be fair Roger was a good age and with all his disabilities, we were up against a wall so to speak. I think what I am also trying to say is don't let your vets intimidate you or fob you off. At the end of the day, you are the paying client, and all that matters really is your buns well-being, and if you are not happy about something or not sure that what your vet is suggesting is the appropriate treatment, then you are well within your rights to get him/her to explain themselves.

Sorry Cari, for hijacking your thread, just too many 'Baytril Buns' on the forum going nowhere, and definitely not getting any better :evil:

I think it to be highly unfair to state that a Vet who immediately opts for Baytril as the first line of treatment is automatically 'causing a Rabbit to suffer'. That is a totally misleading and unfounded statement that will simply cause a lot of additional anxiety to people already upset that their Rabbit is ill.

Yes, other antibiotics are often more appropriate for managing Rabbit abscesses, BUT all Vets BY LAW have to abide by the Veterinary Prescribing Cascade when deciding what medication to use, very few medications are actually LICENSED for use in Rabbits. The Cascade gives a Legal Defination of when and how medication can be prescribed 'off license'.

http://www.bsava.com/Advice/BSAVAGu...nes/Prescribingcascade/tabid/360/Default.aspx

So I think we all (me included!!) need to be more mindful of making assumptions, we cannot possibly know the full facts of every case posted about on here. No matter how informed/experienced we may be very few of us are Vets and none of us have examined the Rabbit being discussed.

The issue of tooth extraction in Ellie's case was referring to her having ALL her molars extracted, not just one or two. I 100% stand by my previous post on this matter and totally agree with MightyMax

So Cari, I am sure you must be very, very worried about Ellie and I know that you want to do all you can for her. I hope the consult in Northampton offers some more hope.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

I think it to be highly unfair to state that a Vet who immediately opts for Baytril as the first line of treatment is automatically 'causing a Rabbit to suffer'. That is a totally misleading and unfounded statement that will simply cause a lot of additional anxiety to people already upset that their Rabbit is ill.

Yes, other antibiotics are often more appropriate for managing Rabbit abscesses, BUT all Vets BY LAW have to abide by the Veterinary Prescribing Cascade when deciding what medication to use, very few medications are actually LICENSED for use in Rabbits. The Cascade gives a Legal Defination of when and how medication can be prescribed 'off license'.

http://www.bsava.com/Advice/BSAVAGu...nes/Prescribingcascade/tabid/360/Default.aspx

So I think we all (me included!!) need to be more mindful of making assumptions, we cannot possibly know the full facts of every case posted about on here. No matter how informed/experienced we may be very few of us are Vets and none of us have examined the Rabbit being discussed.

The issue of tooth extraction in Ellie's case was referring to her having ALL her molars extracted, not just one or two. I 100% stand by my previous post on this matter and totally agree with MightyMax

So Cari, I am sure you must be very, very worried about Ellie and I know that you want to do all you can for her. I hope the consult in Northampton offers some more hope.

Fair comment Jane, think I just got into a bit of a rant mode. I guess what my concern really is, is for vets that are reluctant to try anything else and that just leave buns on baytril for weeks when it is obviously not working. Wouldn't it be fair to say that if no improvement is being seen in a few days, then that is probably a good indication that something more appropriate is required. Wouldn't you agree though that baytril for conditions such as abscesses and ear infections probably in particular, does have a renowned extremely poor prognosis, and therefore it kind of does feel a bit of a pointless route to go down even in just the first instance.

I take on board though that every bun is going to be an individual case, but for myself, I am just very, very glad that my vet does head for the big guns so to speak in the first instance, as such conditions are much easier to treat and clear permanently before they have a chance to get fully established.

It's a nightmare to be honest isn't it, vets and bunnies, and the ridiculously small amount of training that they receive, leaving MOST to be fair without the knowledge, to treat even the most basic of conditions effectively. I guess I was just hoping with my post, to give people the confidence to challenge their vets, and be quite certain that the vet in question is treating their bunny in the best possible way.

Just one last thing while we are on this subject, would you also not agree as my vet also maintains, that these penicillin injections given at 3 day intervals, don't often tend to be the most effective either, because the gap in between is actually too great, and by the time the third day comes around, the infection has in effect started to take hold again. Isn't it therefore more appropriate as he states to give injections daily, and really hit the infection hard and clear it up completely?

 

[Mrs. Bunnykins]

I'm exceptionally lucky by having marvellous vets nearby who specialise in rabbits. The practice also teaches to veterinary students so all in all they are spot on in their knowledge.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

I'm exceptionally lucky by having marvellous vets nearby who specialise in rabbits. The practice also teaches to veterinary students so all in all they are spot on in their knowledge.

Absolutely, myself too. I would be at a total loss without Simon and his wife Kim, who are both bunny specialists and actually run a rabbit clinic can you believe, which is pretty unique, as most vets tend to see all manner of animals don't they.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Fair comment Jane, think I just got into a bit of a rant mode. I guess what my concern really is, is for vets that are reluctant to try anything else and that just leave buns on baytril for weeks when it is obviously not working. Wouldn't it be fair to say that if no improvement is being seen in a few days, then that is probably a good indication that something more appropriate is required. Wouldn't you agree though that baytril for conditions such as abscesses and ear infections probably in particular, does have a renowned extremely poor prognosis, and therefore it kind of does feel a bit of a pointless route to go down even in just the first instance.

I take on board though that every bun is going to be an individual case, but for myself, I am just very, very glad that my vet does head for the big guns so to speak in the first instance, as such conditions are much easier to treat and clear permanently before they have a chance to get fully established.

It's a nightmare to be honest isn't it, vets and bunnies, and the ridiculously small amount of training that they receive, leaving MOST to be fair without the knowledge, to treat even the most basic of conditions effectively. I guess I was just hoping with my post, to give people the confidence to challenge their vets, and be quite certain that the vet in question is treating their bunny in the best possible way.

Just one last thing while we are on this subject, would you also not agree as my vet also maintains, that these penicillin injections given at 3 day intervals, don't often tend to be the most effective either, because the gap in between is actually too great, and by the time the third day comes around, the infection has in effect started to take hold again. Isn't it therefore more appropriate as he states to give injections daily, and really hit the infection hard and clear it up completely?

My point about Baytril being prescribed as a first option is that LEGALLY this is what a Vet has to do unless they can justify going 'off license' as detailed in the link I posted previously re the Cascade System. The owner should then be asked to sign a Disclaimer if Off License prescribing takes place.

As to the efficacy of Baytril, each case is unique and should be treated as such. Prescribing on the basis of the Vet's clinical findings and their professional judgement. Yes, some Vets do fall short in their Rabbit knowledge, very short in some cases. But to slate all Vets who prescribe Baytril as a first option is unfair and misleading. It also adds to the distress of the care giver which in turn may impact on their Rabbit who may well pick up on their Human's distress.

The frequency of dosing with Depocillin is again a very individual case matter. Depocillin is not only unlicensed for use in Rabbits it is also classified as a 'high risk' antibiotic with regards to gut dysbiosis/enteroxaemia. I have had Rabbits on Daily Depocillin injections, some every 2 days, some every 3 days and some once a week (to treat Treponematosis) There really cannot be one size fits all with regards to both the choice of antibiotic and the dose rate.

All we can do on here is offer suggestions that could be put to the Vet treating the Rabbit and offer the care giver as much moral support as possible. Strongly worded rants implying that their Vet may be useless helps no-one.

 

[Cari]

sigh. I think my vet tried her hardest to help, she is an excellent vet that honeybunnies use for all their rabbits, it's just that Ellie's teeth are so very bad and this abcess has gotten so much worse so quickly.

I signed a disclaimer for the Depocillin, she feels that every other day is enough and I'm hoping it is. It doesn't appear to have gotten any bigger in the past 5 days, whereas before it was getting larger every day. I hope she's ok until Tuesday, I am trying my best.

It still hasn't popped but the whole thing is turning purple. :? Going to the vets for third injection today as she wanted to look at it.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

sigh. I think my vet tried her hardest to help, she is an excellent vet that honeybunnies use for all their rabbits, it's just that Ellie's teeth are so very bad and this abcess has gotten so much worse so quickly.

I signed a disclaimer for the Depocillin, she feels that every other day is enough and I'm hoping it is. It doesn't appear to have gotten any bigger in the past 5 days, whereas before it was getting larger every day. I hope she's ok until Tuesday, I am trying my best.

It still hasn't popped but the whole thing is turning purple. :? Going to the vets for third injection today as she wanted to look at it.

Sounds like you have done brilliantly and done everything possible for Ellie. Good luck for Tuesday :thumb:

 

[Hugo's There]

Unfortunately, not that they would ever admit it, but bunnies that do badly after teeth removal are usually operated on by inexperienced, over-ambitious vets, who to be blunt make a right mess of it and then leave the bunnies to suffer afterwards. Before you all shout me down, I have had 2 buns over the years who had teeth removed and they positively thrived afterwards and were both eating the next day, but then there is a whole world of difference when your vet is a highly experienced, extremely specialised bunny vet, who does numerous dentals and extractions every week. You know what they say about 'practice makes perfect'.

Oh and there is also something else that I need to say, because far too many bunnies on this forum are suffering (no offence intended to anyone), because of owners sadly putting misguided trust in their vets and assuming that they know what they are talking about. Seriously, if you take your bun to a vet with an abscess or any kind of infection at all to be honest, and they prescribe you Baytril, then my advice to you, and this has also come from my vet, you may just as well save your money, and go and fill your syringes with water, because that is as much good as Baytril will do. Honestly my heart just sinks when I keep reading about these poor buns who have been struggling with various infections for weeks, sometimes months, and all their vet keeps prescribing is Baytril.

There will be people that will disagree with me, but I can honestly say my vet has never given any of my buns Baytril, and he has no faith in it whatsoever, and there is actually a very good reason for that, and that is because it does NOT work!!! Over the years I have presented bunnies with Pasterella, abscesses, respiratory infections, strokes, EC, to Simon. You name it and he has seen it, and not once has he prescribed Baytril, not once has he left the bunny for any time longer than 48hrs, before if no improvement has been seen, obtaining a culture and then administering the appropriate treatment, and actually these things are not the terrible things people usually think they are, not if your vet is at all clued up and knows what drugs are really needed to treat the problem, but at the end of the day, the real problem believe it or not is THE VETS!!!!!

There is only one condition as yet that Simon has not successfully treated for me, and that was when my severely disabled bunny, Roger, last year developed a brain tumour, but to be fair Roger was a good age and with all his disabilities, we were up against a wall so to speak. I think what I am also trying to say is don't let your vets intimidate you or fob you off. At the end of the day, you are the paying client, and all that matters really is your buns well-being, and if you are not happy about something or not sure that what your vet is suggesting is the appropriate treatment, then you are well within your rights to get him/her to explain themselves.

Sorry Cari, for hijacking your thread, just too many 'Baytril Buns' on the forum going nowhere, and definitely not getting any better :evil:

I am really quite shocked at this post. Having two rabbits with a similar condition doesn't mean you know exactly how every bunny should be treated. We have had between 150-200 rabbits here and I would think around 50% have had some sort of dental/tooth root issue. Our vets while not referral specialists for rabbits they are obviously very rabbit savvy and there are exotic specialists there who have lectured at cambridge vet school.

As Jane has very rightly pointed out the vets legally have to use the cascade when prescribing. I completely disagree that baytril is useless in all cases. we have had some excellent results with high doses of baytril for a range of different issues. it is an extremely effective antibiotic. However the one downfall it does have is that it is unable to penetrate pus, which is what you need when treating an abscess, so baytril is rarely effective in those circumstances. But i completely understand why the OPs vet feels they need to prescribe this first. If it is frustrating for owners to have to go through these legal procedures just consider how frustrating it is for vets. Just because they stick to the legal requirements it in no way makes them bad vets, in fact in my opinion it makes them good vets. I had a long conversation about this to our senior vet nurse a couple of weeks ago and they do find it incredibly difficult to have to stick to the rules sometimes but as she said they have to weigh that up against the risk of being sued. from what i could gain from the conversation it seems our vets have unfortunately had issues with this in the past

Going back to the dental issue. With the tooth root bunnies we have had, very rarely have any bunnies been able to have their molars removed. X-rays have revealed that the roots are so elongated and twisted or wrapped around each other that removal would be impossible. Either that or infection has spread to the bone making it likely to crumble when attempting removal. The only time molars have been removed is when they have been loose and xrays revealed that the roots could easily come away. I would not be happy with a vet trying to extract every molar, I don't think I would ever be able to give permission for that and sadly most of the time where there are root issues, it is usually all or the majority of the teeth that are involved, so removing one or two is unlikely to fix the problem.

Cari, if it were me I would be pushing for a different antibiotic at this stage, asking for up to date x-rays to see exactly what teeth are involved and whether infection has spread to the bone.
Sadly with beetroot we found the bone was so infected that it was crumbling round her gums so there was absolutely nothing we could do except end her pain. Don't panic I don't think your bunny is any where near that stage and there is plenty to do first, just wanted to point out to the poster above that sometimes doing nothing but ending pain is the best thing.
Once you know exactly what teeth are involved and the state of the bone, then you can decide whether opting for surgical removal of the abscess is the right option. I also agree with others that manuka honey is excellent. With Nessa we had to open and drain her abscess twice daily, she used to cry each time and we used to cry with her, poor baby.We packed it each time with manuka honey and while it didn't fix the issue it gave her an extra 6 months

Wishing you loads of luck at the new vet x

 

[Jack's-Jane]

sigh. I think my vet tried her hardest to help, she is an excellent vet that honeybunnies use for all their rabbits, it's just that Ellie's teeth are so very bad and this abcess has gotten so much worse so quickly.

I signed a disclaimer for the Depocillin, she feels that every other day is enough and I'm hoping it is. It doesn't appear to have gotten any bigger in the past 5 days, whereas before it was getting larger every day. I hope she's ok until Tuesday, I am trying my best.

It still hasn't popped but the whole thing is turning purple. :? Going to the vets for third injection today as she wanted to look at it.

I hope that the consult on Tuesday offers some more treatment options for Ellie. Good luck xx

 

[RogerRabbit999]

My first thought when you said the vet put her on Baytril was that if it were me, I would have her looked at and evaluated by a very rabbit savvy vet. Also, having known several bunnies who have not survived very long having had most/all of their teeth removed, I personally would not go down that route either.

Depocillin and manuka honey are what I have found to be most effective against jaw abscesses. I don't believe *all* rabbits are in pain with their abscesses, but they sure hate being fiddled with to get the wound cleaned!

I wish you all the very best with your bunny

I think again the tooth extraction versus none is still something that needs to be looked at on an individual basis. Although Jacks Jane agrees with your views, I personally do not, and am still convinced that a lot of the time, bunnies left with even more problems, or failing to survive, may well be down to the limitations of the vet who carried out the procedure. I had a bunny who had such severe dental problems, but at the same time neurological issues as well, and it simply wasn't an option to keep giving GA's. He therefore had a number of teeth removed that were the real problematic ones, and also the ones that would then not have had anything to grind against, or else we would simply have been swapping one problem for another, and still requiring on going dental work. I can honestly say it was the best thing ever done for that bunny, and what a relief to have all the infections, abscesses, weight loss, mouth ulcers, soft tissue damage etc etc, all behind him. There were never any pain issues, and he was even eating soft food the next day!! Yes, pellets needed to be soften before feeding, treats such as carrot, apple were grated, but he still ate hay very well, and had another 7 years of the best quality life he had ever had, with his dreadful teeth gone. So, I don't think it is fair to assume that all bunnies would have such a bad prognosis, and maybe even simply not survive, because that certainly wasn't the case for my bun, nor for those that I encountered in the waiting area, who had had much the same work done. I personally feel my vet is spot on when he says that if something is causing that much of a problem and affecting the rabbits quality of life, and can be removed, then that is the best route to go down.

 

[hoppetylop]

In my experience because of Baytril being a licenced med for rabbits where many meds are not some vets are reluctant to move on to a different med when Baytril isnt being effective.It was only through being on this forum and having some great advice that ive had the confidence to ask a vet whether an alternatve med can be used after many months of trying Baytril without effect-with good results.My old vets treated my rabbit for 5 months on Baytril without effect before i asked if we could try something else.Needless to say i dont go there anymore!

 

[RogerRabbit999]

I am really quite shocked at this post. Having two rabbits with a similar condition doesn't mean you know exactly how every bunny should be treated. We have had between 150-200 rabbits here and I would think around 50% have had some sort of dental/tooth root issue. Our vets while not referral specialists for rabbits they are obviously very rabbit savvy and there are exotic specialists there who have lectured at cambridge vet school.

As Jane has very rightly pointed out the vets legally have to use the cascade when prescribing. I completely disagree that baytril is useless in all cases. we have had some excellent results with high doses of baytril for a range of different issues. it is an extremely effective antibiotic. However the one downfall it does have is that it is unable to penetrate pus, which is what you need when treating an abscess, so baytril is rarely effective in those circumstances. But i completely understand why the OPs vet feels they need to prescribe this first. If it is frustrating for owners to have to go through these legal procedures just consider how frustrating it is for vets. Just because they stick to the legal requirements it in no way makes them bad vets, in fact in my opinion it makes them good vets. I had a long conversation about this to our senior vet nurse a couple of weeks ago and they do find it incredibly difficult to have to stick to the rules sometimes but as she said they have to weigh that up against the risk of being sued. from what i could gain from the conversation it seems our vets have unfortunately had issues with this in the past

Going back to the dental issue. With the tooth root bunnies we have had, very rarely have any bunnies been able to have their molars removed. X-rays have revealed that the roots are so elongated and twisted or wrapped around each other that removal would be impossible. Either that or infection has spread to the bone making it likely to crumble when attempting removal. The only time molars have been removed is when they have been loose and xrays revealed that the roots could easily come away. I would not be happy with a vet trying to extract every molar, I don't think I would ever be able to give permission for that and sadly most of the time where there are root issues, it is usually all or the majority of the teeth that are involved, so removing one or two is unlikely to fix the problem.

Cari, if it were me I would be pushing for a different antibiotic at this stage, asking for up to date x-rays to see exactly what teeth are involved and whether infection has spread to the bone.
Sadly with beetroot we found the bone was so infected that it was crumbling round her gums so there was absolutely nothing we could do except end her pain. Don't panic I don't think your bunny is any where near that stage and there is plenty to do first, just wanted to point out to the poster above that sometimes doing nothing but ending pain is the best thing.
Once you know exactly what teeth are involved and the state of the bone, then you can decide whether opting for surgical removal of the abscess is the right option. I also agree with others that manuka honey is excellent. With Nessa we had to open and drain her abscess twice daily, she used to cry each time and we used to cry with her, poor baby.We packed it each time with manuka honey and while it didn't fix the issue it gave her an extra 6 months

Wishing you loads of luck at the new vet x

I am in no way implying that just because I have had 2 very severe dental buns, that that makes me an expert on ALL buns. I'm not the expert BUT my vet is, and we have discussed at length such issues, and I am certainly not an idiot either that fails to absorb any of the information passed on to me. My point was that Baytril, as you yourself have stated, so I fail to see why you are so shocked, IS very ineffective at treating abscesses or very severe infections, and so does seem a bit of a pointless route to go down even initially.

It is reassuring that there do appear to be some very good rabbit vets about, but there are no doubt more, simply because of the lack of training, absolutely horrendous ones as well who have in effect contributed to the loss of a much loved bunny, and yes myself having also been in that desperately sad situation, and it is simply devastating to later discover that you lost such a fab bunny because of an ear infection, and it was nothing to do with the brain at all!!!!

Maybe it is because of my own previously really bad experience with vets, resulting in the worse possible outcome, that makes me mistrust all vets other than my own, but NO vet will ever cause any one of my buns the pain and suffering that have previously been caused by an incompetent vet, and the fact that the vet concerned was then disciplined by the RCVS and lost his license to practice was a good result in my eyes, and maybe gives you a bit of an insight into why I feel as strongly as I do.

 

[RogerRabbit999]

In my experience because of Baytril being a licenced med for rabbits where many meds are not some vets are reluctant to move on to a different med when Baytril isnt being effective.It was only through being on this forum and having some great advice that ive had the confidence to ask a vet whether an alternatve med can be used after many months of trying Baytril without effect-with good results.My old vets treated my rabbit for 5 months on Baytril without effect before i asked if we could try something else.Needless to say i dont go there anymore!

My point exactly, in that just because Baytril is a licenced med, CAN (not will!!) make some vets reluctant to try other more effective meds, even when it is clearly not working. That is NOT a good vet and to me is shocking and unacceptable practice.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

My point exactly, in that just because Baytril is a licenced med, CAN (not will!!) make some vets reluctant to try other more effective meds, even when it is clearly not working. That is NOT a good vet and to me is shocking and unacceptable practice.

I think you have made your point and perhaps now we can return to supporting Cari and Ellie

 

[Hugo's There]

I am in no way implying that just because I have had 2 very severe dental buns, that that makes me an expert on ALL buns. I'm not the expert BUT my vet is, and we have discussed at length such issues, and I am certainly not an idiot either that fails to absorb any of the information passed on to me. My point was that Baytril, as you yourself have stated, so I fail to see why you are so shocked, IS very ineffective at treating abscesses or very severe infections, and so does seem a bit of a pointless route to go down even initially.

It is reassuring that there do appear to be some very good rabbit vets about, but there are no doubt more, simply because of the lack of training, absolutely horrendous ones as well who have in effect contributed to the loss of a much loved bunny, and yes myself having also been in that desperately sad situation, and it is simply devastating to later discover that you lost such a fab bunny because of an ear infection, and it was nothing to do with the brain at all!!!!

Maybe it is because of my own previously really bad experience with vets, resulting in the worse possible outcome, that makes me mistrust all vets other than my own, but NO vet will ever cause any one of my buns the pain and suffering that have previously been caused by an incompetent vet, and the fact that the vet concerned was then disciplined by the RCVS and lost his license to practice was a good result in my eyes, and maybe gives you a bit of an insight into why I feel as strongly as I do.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there. you had a bad experience so now mistrust every vet except your own. But it goes without saying nearly everyone of us has a different vet to you and realistically that doesn't mean they are always getting bad treatment. May be it's time to try to let go of the past and see all the amazing things vets are doing for different rabbits on this forum. There are some amazing and dedicated vets out there who do try their very best for their bunny patients.of course there will be bad vets too but coming on and ranting to use your own words to people who are worried about their sick rabbit isn't the most constructive way to help a situation. I understand you had a bad experience in the past and it still hurts you but that doesn't mean vets aren't generally doing a good job . I'm not referring to this particularly thread as the owner is now seeing a different vet and hopefully things will get sorted.

Oh and no where did I call you an idiot You just seem like someone who is still really hurting and that means maybe you can't always give the most objective advice xx

 

[Hugo's There]

I think you have made your point and perhaps now we can return to supporting Cari and Ellie

:thumb: Good luck Ellie x

 

[Barn Yard Bunnies]

Best of luck Cari. If you have honeybunnies vet I am sure they are really good. Hope all goes well on Tuesday.

I have used 6 different vets for my rabbits over 14 years, none have been bad, some not savvy but not bad, so try not to worry. I now have a great vet and they are learning all the time. There is still a lot vets don't know about rabbits, unlike cats and dogs but it is all greatly improving.

 

[weeble]

I think you have made your point and perhaps now we can return to supporting Cari and Ellie

Agreed please can we get this thread back on track and not turn it into a debate