A thought... not meant to be provocative but maybe it is....

[keletkezes]

Threads like these just makes me feel depressed and guilty

I agree with the guilty bit, but I have to remember that I'm doing better than where Lopsy was before: it might still be a planning and execution thing, but it's better than the small if well-meant space before!

they are very lively, manic bunnies, very rabbity rabbits and not interested in humans unless you have food :lol:

Lopsy too: free range for him means FIND FOOD first and shelter will come along at some point, although personally I think buzzards, foxes or traffic would happen first :roll:

As for hutches, I like them but they have to be permanently open into a run (or just open to the outside world) somehow: that's how I've always kept rabbits and it seems weird to contemplate any other way! I think they make a nice snuggly hidey-hole. But then I would also not want to include them when calculating floorspace if they were under 2'x2' in the shortest dimensions (like Lopsy's original one is)

I would love to have Lopsy freerange in the garden but I can't be out there 24/7 with him and it seems crueller to me to let him out for an hour or whatever a day and then restrict him for the rest of the time: what you don't know can't hurt you (and I know that's not really true ;P)? Best for us is outside where he can get grass and sunshine and hear the birds and shout at the ducks and play in the rain, but in a safe environment.

I'm not a true bun-fanatic: I don't live for the bunbuns, but now I've got this poor thing I think I should give him the best life I can manage!

 

[Aly&Poppy<3]

I get upset when I get told I need to find friends for my single rabbits, I burst into tears once when someone said to me "lol, are any actually bonded?"
I can't help that Leo is ill, I can't help that Kerbie is ill. I hope one day they can be well enough to rebond, but currently they are just way too poorly. They're both happy though, not sure unhappy rabbits would binky all the time. I can't do anything with Charley, I don't even want to go there until she knows she doesn't have to be scared anymore.

The boys can't freerange in the house because of the dog, but in the warmer months they go in the conservatory for a change of scenery which is the most exciting thing ever apparently.
I would like to let Donny and Lola and Charley freerange in the garden but they'd either be on the road or next door in 5 seconds, there is no way to bunny proof our garden so I do all I can do give them space. Instead of transporting them into an extended run on the patio my bf is making them a door on the run so I can attach those runs to that instead.

My bf tells me I shouldn't let people's opinions get to me, but unfortunately my anxiety clings onto it and I feel like the worst owner ever. He says they can have their opinions but the facts are our rabbits aren't single through choice.

 

[BattleKat]

The issue of space is one of the main reasons that I don't really believe that rabbits are suitable as a pet species.

 

[BattleKat]

The boys can't freerange in the house because of the dog, but in the warmer months they go in the conservatory for a change of scenery which is the most exciting thing ever apparently.

I think being able to have a change of scenery is actually preferable to having more space all the time anyway, personally

 

[Hesperus]

Some really interesting opinions here.

I'd really like to stress that I'm not out to judge anyone, I think there are amazing rabbit owners on here, but that I just had this thought after seeing the 'if you saw' argument used in another context. I think all the replies here just show how everyone is doing their best but in so many different ways. Some people have ideal set-ups, other have ideal group relationships... etc.

 

[Aly&Poppy<3]

I think being able to have a change of scenery is actually preferable to having more space all the time anyway, personally

I never thought the boys would enjoy it, but out of both of them Leo loves it the most. He's deaf so I thought the change might scare him, as well as the tiled floor but it gets him using his leg muscles as he jumps on to the low sofas It would be good if the roof was redone as it's plastic so gets really hot or really cold, if it were glass at least it could be a more regular thing.

I get judged on Instagram a lot, because my rabbits live in a shed/run.. If you search 'rabbithutch' in Instagram you find tiny hutches, no hay etc and I'm the one who gets attacked?! I hate that I feel I have to explain myself too, when my rabbits have lots of space and are well looked after. Like I'm defending the fact I revolve my life around the rabbits :lol:

 

[BattleKat]

I get judged on Instagram a lot, because my rabbits live in a shed/run.

As opposed to in the house? :?

 

[elmoandfern]

I never thought the boys would enjoy it, but out of both of them Leo loves it the most. He's deaf so I thought the change might scare him, as well as the tiled floor but it gets him using his leg muscles as he jumps on to the low sofas It would be good if the roof was redone as it's plastic so gets really hot or really cold, if it were glass at least it could be a more regular thing.

I get judged on Instagram a lot, because my rabbits live in a shed/run.. If you search 'rabbithutch' in Instagram you find tiny hutches, no hay etc and I'm the one who gets attacked?! I hate that I feel I have to explain myself too, when my rabbits have lots of space and are well looked after. Like I'm defending the fact I revolve my life around the rabbits :lol:

You do an amazing job looking after your bunnies and give them the best life, you have nothing to feel guilty about whatsoever...there are some idiots on Instagram!

 

[SarahP]

I kept rabbits in a hutch/run combo outside, then they had to be brought inside for health reasons. They had the run of the kitchen and hallway/stairs/top of stairs. But that wasn't enough for them - they constantly chewed on doors and resented any closed doors whatsoever. Before I had them, they were notorious for digging through into the neighbours' gardens etc. So my view is that, you need to have as much space as possible for rabbits, but that they will always resent barriers and see them as a challenge to get through!

 

[tabithakat64]

I saw that comment as well OP & whilst it is true for the vast majority of bunnies are happy to be bonded with somebun else there are some that will not accept another rabbit and some that may need to be kept alone for health reasons.

Sadly, some people only see the works in black and white.

I recently spent a great deal of money in setting up a shed and bespoke run in order to give my four a much larger and more suitable living space and we've also been doing a lot of work on the garden to increase the amount of suitable free range space they have too.

I do think it's important to provide rabbits with as much space and enrichment as possible and that the RWAF guidelines are the absolute minimum that is acceptable for the average sized pair of rabbits.

Would I love to have my rabbits inside, but my OH is a techie so we have lots of expensive equipment with meters of wiring so they would have to be restricted. Plus they would bully my cat all the time. The get the option of coming in side during free range time and only one of them has ever ventured in. Two I think would be fine but the other two aren't litter trained and like to dig and chew and do lots of rabbit things so would be happier out side.

 

[Aly&Poppy<3]

As opposed to in the house? :?

It's 90% americans that comment asking how I can keep rabbits outdoors and indoors and (I'm quoting here) "your outdoor rabbits must really resent you for having indoor rabbits" !!
I could have them all indoors but they would have to be in cages as there is no room which isn't fair so they live outdoors in large set ups. The americans who have commented on my photos have also told me I'm mean (yes, mean :lol to have outdoor rabbits because of the temperature and "how on earth can they keep themselves warm?!" I said, with their natural thick coats and an abundance of hay :lol: They refused to believe the temperatures aren't as drastic as they get over in the states!

 

[louise200]

If the inside to outside temp changes weren't a concern, my ideal would be to have a catflap through the wall between our small utility off the kitchen, connected outside to pipe going along the decking and down into their aviary. Mesh door to utility. Then I could see where they'd rather be and at which time of day and they could come in and free range when they decided

 

[Lea-Anne]

If the inside to outside temp changes weren't a concern, my ideal would be to have a catflap through the wall between our small utility off the kitchen, connected outside to pipe going along the decking and down into their aviary. Mesh door to utility. Then I could see where they'd rather be and at which time of day and they could come in and free range when they decided

That's such a great idea.

 

[icklepxy]

It's 90% americans that comment asking how I can keep rabbits outdoors and indoors and (I'm quoting here) "your outdoor rabbits must really resent you for having indoor rabbits" !!
I could have them all indoors but they would have to be in cages as there is no room which isn't fair so they live outdoors in large set ups. The americans who have commented on my photos have also told me I'm mean (yes, mean :lol to have outdoor rabbits because of the temperature and "how on earth can they keep themselves warm?!" I said, with their natural thick coats and an abundance of hay :lol: They refused to believe the temperatures aren't as drastic as they get over in the states!

As an american please let me apologize on behalf of my people. They probably think they are helping but no, they have NO idea what they're talking about in terms of the temperate climate over here. And not only that but wild rabbits survive just fine in the cold (or as fine as wild rabbits fare any time of year at least...). Narrow minded judgmental.....grr.

Which takes me nicely into my next point. Hasn't the lifespan of domestic rabbits INCREASED over the last several years due to their living conditions being made better? Wild rabbits don't fare that well, with natural predators and disease and diet issues and all sorts. So there has got to be something to be said for altering the bunny environment for the health of the bunny if not the happiness. Natural environment isn't always the best for a species (look at humans, you want to go live in a cave compared to your living room? I think not )

On the other hand we need to balance this with the rabbits actual behavioral, physical and psychological needs and this is why I think it's great that we are constantly challenging each other and ourselves to give our rabbits better lives. But a bit like childcare, one size will not fit all and we have to do what's best for our individual buns. That's how I feel about it anyway.

 

[MightyMax]

I've just been reading a different rabbit thread on a different website, someone said if you saw two rabbits grooming you'd never keep a single rabbit. (Not the topic this thread is about though pleae- there have been plenty of those).

That got me thinking about my own position on rabbit keeping and I've realised I personally believe that if you saw a free-range rabbit environment you'd never keep a rabbit in a hutch/run or shed. I know that these often well exceed the minimums recommended by the RSCPA etc but when I see Ludo pelting around our house, which is very large, up and down the stairs, round and round the hall, doing binkies all the way, I start to wonder if it's unkind to keep rabbits in any enclosed space.

Now, I don't mean this to be controversial at all, because I also believe that there is no single model of what's best, you have to adapt situations for individual buns and environments, (like how I am sure Ludo's health is only now controlled because he is single). But the fact that what I believe (rabbits should run free for at least most of the time) is clearly contrasting with expert advice, and it got me thinking.

But I was wondering what other people think? I'd like to hear from you all, whether you have a hutch/run or a freerange environment.:wave:

I'm not quite sure what you mean - expert advice suggests they should *not* run free most of the time?

My beliefs are entirely in agreement with yours. My rabbits are never caged - they follow me everywhere. Into the kitchen (and the fridge), the loo, sit by the fire ... However, this is totally impractical for many people so a compromise has to be achieved to suit both parties. Also, for outdoor rabbits their freedom has to be balanced against their safety.

 

[Hesperus]

I'm not quite sure what you mean - expert advice suggests they should *not* run free most of the time?

My beliefs are entirely in agreement with yours. My rabbits are never caged - they follow me everywhere. Into the kitchen (and the fridge), the loo, sit by the fire ... However, this is totally impractical for many people so a compromise has to be achieved to suit both parties. Also, for outdoor rabbits their freedom has to be balanced against their safety.

No, it's probably not the best written phrase of mine. I just mean that the advice (I know it's a minimum) gives a square footage which personally I would think is far too small. And I think that's the advice that a lot of people follow (if indeed they follow any!)

 

[MightyMax]

No, it's probably not the best written phrase of mine. I just mean that the advice (I know it's a minimum) gives a square footage which personally I would think is far too small. And I think that's the advice that a lot of people follow (if indeed they follow any!)

Agree totally. However, having done home checks for rabbits for many years, I feel you have to work within what people are able or indeed willing to do. It's a really big compromise and the ones who suffer are the rabbits, undoubtedly.

However, giving guidelines means that at least some rabbits will have some kind of quality of life. If you base a rabbit's exercise needs on what they would do in the wild, we come nowhere close. That's why I cannot cage my rabbits, and they are free to run up and down stairs, or sit and slob out in front of the tele or hide behind the sofa as they wish.

I think you were right that the advice is a minimum and some people take that as gospel. The sky's the limit as far as I can see. I can't restrict a rabbit to one room any more than I could put them into a cage!

 

[Santa]

J

That got me thinking about my own position on rabbit keeping and I've realised I personally believe that if you saw a free-range rabbit environment you'd never keep a rabbit in a hutch/run or shed.

Having previously had rabbits who fee ranged all the time, and having discovered after eight years of not having ever see a fox that all of a sudden we did have a fox, and at the same time finding a headless rabbit, I realised that while I thought I personally believed that quality over quantity is best, actually I now believe that it is my responsibility to ensure their safety and security. So I now have bunnies in a large shed and run, and I do not rehome to houses where free range is the main form of exercise or where unsupervised free range is allowed.

So my experience is the opposite - once you've seen a headless rabbit because you allowed them to free range, you'll never want to allow that to happen again!

 

[Hesperus]

J

Having previously had rabbits who fee ranged all the time, and having discovered after eight years of not having ever see a fox that all of a sudden we did have a fox, and at the same time finding a headless rabbit, I realised that while I thought I personally believed that quality over quantity is best, actually I now believe that it is my responsibility to ensure their safety and security. So I now have bunnies in a large shed and run, and I do not rehome to houses where free range is the main form of exercise or where unsupervised free range is allowed.

So my experience is the opposite - once you've seen a headless rabbit because you allowed them to free range, you'll never want to allow that to happen again!

I absolutely agree with you, my experience of free range is indoors. I live in a badger/fox-filled area so no way I could let any pet free range outdoors. Harry used to have a good hour or two a day in the garden with me though which he enjoyed.

 

[MightyMax]

J

Having previously had rabbits who fee ranged all the time, and having discovered after eight years of not having ever see a fox that all of a sudden we did have a fox, and at the same time finding a headless rabbit, I realised that while I thought I personally believed that quality over quantity is best, actually I now believe that it is my responsibility to ensure their safety and security. So I now have bunnies in a large shed and run, and I do not rehome to houses where free range is the main form of exercise or where unsupervised free range is allowed.

So my experience is the opposite - once you've seen a headless rabbit because you allowed them to free range, you'll never want to allow that to happen again!

Although I have known of a rescue who *did* rehome where outdoor free range was allowed, I personally would never rehome to anywhere where unsupervised outdoor free range is permitted.