A Moment of Honesty.....

[Bunny Buddy]

If you set yourself up in a Practice treating Domestic Pets is it that unreasonable for clients to expect a reasonable knowledge base of the third most popular domestic Pet ?

I so agree with this. The problem seems to be the training and the whole set up historically. That said each vet seeing a patient has the responsibility to
know how to treat that patient, see the signs, make the diagnosis etc - you pay money for a service and should get what you are paying for. If they don't feel competent with that species they should say so and point you in the direction of a competent practitioner.

I've seen basic things that are across species being neglected, you don't have to be a rabbit expert to know these things- no health check before vaccination being a prime example.

I've been talked out of having a rabbit spayed when the consultation was set up to discuss the matter - it wasn't something I threw into the conversation. I was told VHD vaccination was not neccessary... the list goes on. These are also very basic things that a 'small animals' vet should be competent in.

 

[abbymarysmokey]

I think sometimes people need to vent if they feel they haven't received proper treatment from their vet...RU is the perfect place to let off steam.

IMO vets shouldn't be put on a pedestal and treated like gods, just because they've passed a few exams.

Everyone should be able to question their vet if they disagree with their rabbit's treatment, etc.

 

[Sky-O]

Another quick question, those bunnies that appeared to die of vet incompetence, did you get PM's done?

No PMs here, just common sense.

Flash- no. He had a cat incident. He wasn't ill. I didn't know about snuggle safes, or fluid, or pain relief or anything, and neither did they. He was very healthy and died due to the shock of it the next day. I could have turned that around had I know.

Moon- They weighed her wrong and gave her a larger dose of medication than she should have had. Prior to that they gave inaccurate and wrong diet advice (advice I would NEVER follow now), which indluced removing the hay to get her weight down. Moon died the day after the large dose of medication.

Sunshine- They did a dental on him and one of his teeth came out- they knew and were aware. I didn't know that the opposing one can cause problems, and he died a year later due to the abscess going into the bone and ravaging his body where the opposing tooth had grown up and through where the other one had previously been.

Boofa- She had problems kindling (and yes, I hate myself for this), and they dosed her up with Metachlopromide and sent her home. No emergency spay, no investigation to see why she was still bleeding, just gave the gut stimulant, told me she would be fine and sent us home. Boofa died that night.

At the time I didn't know any of those were wrong, it was only as I went on a crusade to learn as much as possible that I knew things had gone wrong. There is no point complaining eons after the event. Had I known at the time, I would have complained.

 

[Rachel89]

Iv'e complained about vets before, its incredibly fustrating takeing Honey to be told nothings wrong, its only a rabbit, too much hassle and pts. We had so much rudeness from them, they couldn't care. But I moved now I love my new vets, couldn't be happier.

We have two different horse vets and there amazing. Christmas day at 3am for emergency visit, no moaning or anything they were lovely, there so quickly even though I'm sure many would have a grumble.

I wouldn't knock any vet unless I peronally had had a bad experience with them, everyone gets a chance, someone I hadn't met say on here who was a vet I wouldn't tarnish at all.

 

[donnamt]

I wonder how many people actually approach and complain to the vets when they do have a problem rather that just change practice so the vet never know what they have done "wrong"

thankfully the vet i have issues with moved to dubai so i will never have to see him again and i didnt know he was a fraud until after he had gone so no point complaining now, altho i did put one vet right when he commented on not going against what had been said about a myxi jab. so i think they know how unimpressed i am with thier X exotics vet

 

[Sky-O]

That said each vet seeing a patient has the responsibility to know how to treat that patient, see the signs, make the diagnosis etc - you pay money for a service and should get what you are paying for. If they don't feel competent with that species they should say so and point you in the direction of a competent practitioner.

I think this is so true and very important.

 

[SuzieBlue]

Maybe it would be worth the people who have good vets posting about the kinds of things their vets do during a routine check up, to help people who aren't sure about their vet's competency? I know that in the practice I go to, there are one or two vets who are very competent when it comes to exotics, and some who are not so good, and you can tell the difference, as the exotics vets look for different things and are more thorough during a check-up.

This might help people make a decision about letting a particular vet treat their rabbit, and might stop the potential for misdiagnosis/treatment etc. It might also make people feel a bit more in control. I know I certainly don't have enough knowledge yet about bunny health to be able to challenge a vet if I felt they had missed something, so I need to be able to trust my vet completely.

I think it's a shame if someone who uses this forum is made to feel unwelcome or awkward, when they are trying to help. I also understand the frustration of some who have lost bunnies or whose bunnies are ill, and have unsympathetic or incompetent vets, so there must be a way via this forum for people to help one another?

 

[Sky-O]

I like that idea. Maybe we could also come up with a list of questions to ask your vet to check they know at least basic knowledge?

 

[Rachel89]

Thats a really good idea.
I guess I'm quite lucky in haveing a "complicated" rabbit as afterthe first 2mis of seeing them with Honey you can tell quite quickly if there any good :lol:

Also maybe a sticky or thread of vets people have had good experience in as lots of threads are posted asking about vets in areas.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Another quick question, those bunnies that appeared to die of vet incompetence, did you get PM's done?

Laura- Botched spay, seen by second Vet at another practice but could not be saved

Georgia- GI stasis, I was ignorant of Rabbit health issues and assumed that when told by a VET that 'a Rabbit will eat when they are hungry' she would.
She didn't and she died in agony. I took the matter to the Cheif Vet and obtained a written apology from the Vet who failed Georgia aswell as a full refund of my costs (Not that the money was the issue)

Anna- PTS because 'Rabbits with Dental problems cannot be treated'. Anna was 18 months old and her problem was just molar spurs.........

Robbie- PTS again as Vet said 'Dental problems in Rabbits cannot be treated'

Huckle Bunny Finn- Like Donna's Pearl Finn had severe Respiratory symptoms. Vet prescribed 7 days Baytril- no improvement- PTS 'offered'. I requested chest Xray, Vet refused. I continued to plead for Xray-Finn had his Xray, Thymoma diagnosed-Finn died.

David- Again presented with respiratory symptoms, lethargy, weightloss. Again Vet refused any treatment other than Baytril and refused my request for a Chest Xray. More insisting on my part. After several weeks Xray RELUCTANTLY done-enlarged heart and a chest/abdomen full of fluid- Heart failure. Told that PTS 'only option'.

Becks- Same as David. I finally realised this Vet was clueless, moved to my current Vet and she saved Beck's life.

My origional Vet also stated that VHD Vaccinations were unnecessary as the virus was 'near on impossible to transmit'............

The Vet also did something else highly illegal which I am not going to post on here but which Tamsin is aware of as at the time I did post it on here not realising the grave implications FOR ME aswell as for the Vet.

 

[Camp Nibble]

I'd just like to say how highly I rate the vets that we use for our own variety of pets and the different species of animals at Camp Nibble.

Thank you for all of your help guys :wave:

We are completely aware that it is not possible for vets to be masters of all trades so we see it as our responsibility to do our research and register each species of animal with an appropriate specialist BEFORE they become ill.

We have been very surprised in the past that vets that we would trust completely with our dog's lives have looked at our guinea pigs as though they were aliens :lol:

It would be helpful for vets to be honest and not be ashamed to say when they are clueless in a particular type of animal, but I still think it is part of an owners responsibility to make an effort to find a recommended vet.

I would find the guilt very hard of knowing that I'd let an animal down by taking them to the wrong vet. I would take full responsibility for that decision.

Really sorry to hear that you have been so upset by people's comments vikkivet

 

[georgie_f]

I'm guilty of complaining about my vet on RU.

There are no specialist vets here and it's very frustrating when you take your pet to the vets and all they do is perscribe Baytril and then offer to PTS. The vets themselves are all very pleasent and obviously care for animals very much but it bugs the hell out of me that they almost pretend to know what they're doing.

I very nearly had my conti PTS as the vet was insistant he had myxi. They sold me £80 worth of Baytril (nothing else) and sent me on my way with the warning that if it had no effect he'd have to be PTS. The Baytril didn't have any effect and that's when I joined RU to ask for advice, as I love that rabbit more than anything and I'd be damned if I was going to give up on him. After posting just one picture of Thistle's scabby nose, half a dozen people told me to take him back and get him put on Penicillin for syphallis. Thistle had this and is now 100% fine. I find it quite worrying that my rabbit could be diagnosed over the internet from one photograph by people who had no vetinary training at all when didn't my vet didn't have a clue. It makes me wonder if my bunnies from the past have been PTS or died from incorrect treatment too. When my vet realised the error, I had no appology. I'd been so close to having Thistle PTS for something so easily treated.

Another time, just before I joined RU, I had a tan bunny with EC. The vet would tell me to give him Panacur and Baytril for a week, he'd get a bit better, the vet would take him off it, he'd get worse again, get put back on it... this continued for three months until Diego got to the point where he was unable to stand and the vet told me he had to be PTS. I was beside myself earlier this year when Jess developed EC too (the vet had failed to inform me that Diego could have left spores behind in the shed). With a little research and a lot of advice from RU, I learnt the proper way to treat EC and Jess is now fighting fit. It even says on the Panacur website that it should be used for at least 28 days to treat EC. I feel I lost Diego for no reason now.

Anyway, getting to the point, I think sometimes the complaints are justified. I take my pets to the vet as I believe it's in their best interests and assume that the vet will know what they are doing and will tell me if they're unsure of the treatment they perscribe. Obviously, they don't. I will always research before a vet visit now. Always.

I would absolutely die of excitement if a rabbit savvy vet moved down here! :lol: I hear stories of the briliant vets some of the members of RU have and get a real case of vet envy!

Vikki.... come and live in my shed??! :angel:

 

[yoshi&gizmo]

i too have complained about my *old vets* on here but i feel with good cause.

They too were guilty of not admitting they were not rabbit savy and instead charged me a fair bit of money while they experimented on my bunny to try and work out what was wrong.

Now the positive bit my new vet who is a bunny mummy herself has alot of experience with rabbits and is a very loving and caring vet. [she even did a free home visit to check on my bunny when i was too ill to get to her....my OH was going to ride up to her but she said she wanted to see the bunny herself ]

She has also advised of a new vet who has come down to the area who is an exotic vet and basically admitted she is not an exotic vet herself but has done additional research etc into rabbits and works alot with rabbits that come into the surgery.... she also assures me if there is ever a problem she doesn't know she would contact her collegue who hopefully would be able to help.

So my point is this.... there are *some* good vets out there and there are some bad vets. I guess it is a case of doing research and word of mouth.... I know this site saved gizmo's life as if wasn't for on here we would never have found out about allen & page and gizmo wouldn't be here now.....

Thanks to ALL RU members

 

[Candiflare]

I understand you wanting to defend vets, Vikki but I think that the people who have complained have always been very careful to say *some* vets rather than talk about vets in general. Like all professions, the individuals within them are a mixed bag and you can't cast them all as positive or negative.

I think everyone here loves and values your interest and knowledge about rabbits and are so thankful that there's a great vet out there, but unfortunately all vets aren't like you. I feel like veterinary science should be much more divided into species and systems within the body like the medical profession is: gastroenterologist, cardiologist etc.

I understand that it's a really stressful and complicated profession with often very little reward. I proposed and founded Vets TV which is the tv station off the BVA website. At the time, I interviewed about 50 vets for features on the channel and I know that they all went into it for love and care of animals, so there's no question that all vet's intentions are good.

It's just that when i take my rabbit to the vet, when I don't know my good rabbit vet is there, I get the man who medicates the lions at the Cotswold Wildlife Park who has little to no interest in rabbit physiology at all.

 

[sillyrabbit]

Nobody is criticizing you personally though so I am not sure why it would upset you? :?

Its important for people to be aware that not all vets get it right or nobody would question anything or get second opinions. I feel I have had good reason to complain about the way some of my animals have been treated. How would you feel if it was your own animals? Its not a very nice feeling knowing a vet doesn't think your animal is important enough to bother finding out what's wrong so of course people are going to complain about it when it happens

There is also constant praise for vets on here, I see lots of posts where people say they are thankful for their vets and lots of recommendations to other members for good vets

 

[Gemmapookie]

I see your point that its a horrible thing when vets get slated on here, but you have to see it from our point of view. We are all on here because we adore our rabbits, they're our babies. When they get ill, which is a horrific time anyway, we want to feel like we can take them to a vet who is going to know what they're doing and treat them appropriately. Its horrible to not beable to trust that your vet is doing the right thing.
The vet i first went to with my buns to get them spayed, told me to fast them the night beofre the op. I was a new bunny owner back then but even I knew this wasnt good advise for buns! I didnt fast them and fortunatly the ops went well. But then Timmy got stasis, I called her straight away and told her he needed to be seen immediately, and she told me that if he still wasnt eating the next day to call again I switched vets immediately to a wonderful man, who got him in straight away and saved Timmys life. I cant understand why my original vet didnt just tell me that she was more informed about dogs and cats, and send me to the other vet instead. I would have much more respect for her if she had.
Its such a shame that people have such problems with their vets. Doctors have to go to seminars frequently all through their careers to learn about the latest diagnoses and treatments, and I feel that vets should do that aswell. With all the new rabbit info in recent years, it could have saved alot of bunnys lives.
Having said that i now have an amazing vet who i couldnt trust more. of course there are many out there like that and they should all be praised

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I understand you wanting to defend vets, Vikki but I think that the people who have complained have always been very careful to say *some* vets rather than talk about vets in general. Like all professions, the individuals within them are a mixed bag and you can't cast them all as positive or negative.

I think everyone here loves and values your interest and knowledge about rabbits and are so thankful that there's a great vet out there, but unfortunately all vets aren't like you. I feel like veterinary science should be much more divided into species and systems within the body like the medical profession is: gastroenterologist, cardiologist etc.

I understand that it's a really stressful and complicated profession with often very little reward. I proposed and founded Vets TV which is the tv station off the BVA website. At the time, I interviewed about 50 vets for features on the channel and I know that they all went into it for love and care of animals, so there's no question that all vet's intentions are good.

It's just that when i take my rabbit to the vet, when I don't know my good rabbit vet is there, I get the man who medicates the lions at the Cotswold Wildlife Park who has little to no interest in rabbit physiology at all.

* Gulps *......................

 

[Santa]

I'm going to sit on the fence as I have sympathy with both "sides"...

I do know of some vets who I think are a disgrace to the profession and I would happily see struck off; I think there are some who would do well to recognise their weaknesses and either take steps to address them or admit that they don't know and allow owners to make an informed choice based on species specific knowledge. Some vets, like my own, are pretty good all rounders but are by no means experts, and will happily admit that they don't know...but will take sensible steps to find out. And of course then there are the wonderful vets like Marie, Rodneyvet, William and soon-to-be-Vikkivet who are enthusiastic and knowledgeable and happy to share their knowledge.

I also think that veterinary training on the country's third most popular pet is woefully inadequate - an issue I have previously taken up with the RCVS. They said they would discuss it at their next education committee, but whether anything came of it I know not and I don't have the time or energy to follow it up at the moment.

I also agree with Liz that many vets do get frustrated by the fact that many of their clients aren't like most of us here and won't pay for detailed or different treatments, so general practice vets don't get the chance to learn either. My vet has said to me before that she finds it frustrating that for most people, the rabbit is their child's pet and they don't want to try much, and certainly wouldn't cope with injecting/working out how to give tablets/nebulising etc (or paying to leave their pet at the clinic so it can be done there).

Vikki - you're obviously more enlightened on rabbits than many of your peers: do they realise that their rabbit training is inadequate or do they just assume that it reflects the difficulty of treating rabbits and that there isn't much you can do?

 

[weeble]

I think the problem with *some* vets is that they dont like to admit that they dont know. I can understand this is it might make you question their ability.

To cheer you up my vets are fab and also very honest. I took my cat to see Mel and she said he had an ulcer in his eye. She was really honest and said it was different to any she had seen before and consulted colleagues and also an eye specialist. Luckily it turned out to be fairly minor but she was great and told me what she thought could be best and worse case scenario

 

[coco1200]

well, I adore the two vets who share the care for Noisette... they are both always in discussion about animals and show true compassion for rabbits. They are both so lovely and so caring, and will do everything possible. Paula is adamant that PTS is always a last route and we do EVERYTHING possible to get the bun better before we even consider going down there.

My vet surgery did a PM free for Hermione when she passed because they wanted to learn more about the condition and to up their knowledge on it! They even wiped all my outstanding bills (£300+) and paid for Hermiones cremation. I don't think I will ever want to change vets. If this isn't true compassion, then what is it? I am glad to know my vet surgery is willing to learn more about bunnies and to increase their capacity for it.