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Rabbit eating pellets but off hay

S

Snowymouse

Young Bun
Hi all, hope you can help give me some advice. My boy rabbit (Dust) was very quiet yesterday evening, I didn't see him touch his hay (he's normally a pretty good hay eater) but he still went mad for his pellets and had some fresh grass and hawthorn that I got for him so I wasn't too concerned. This morning however he was still acting strange and didn't run up to me as normal for breakfast, just sat there in a grump. When the pellets came out he got a bit more lively and ate them but then went back to sitting in a corner and completely ignored his fresh hay. Poo output was also down overnight so I took him to the vets this morning.

Now these vets aren't rabbit specialists but seem to know what they're doing. Today however I saw a different vet to normal. He said Dust had a normal temperature, didn't seem bloated and teeth seemed fine except that he didn't do a visual inspection of the teeth just said the jaw had a smooth motion to it, and as Dust is young (2.5yrs) he wouldn't expect dental issues. He said he will do a full dental insepction under GA if he thinks teeth are the issue. The last vet we saw here (in September) did do a visual check and said some small spurs were forming so I instantly thought teeth might be the problem.

He gave Dust injections of Baytril, a gut stimulant and metacam (after I asked for pain relief just in case) and wants to see him again tomorrow morning - does this sound okay? Is there anything I should ask at the second consult (presuming Dust is not much improved)? I forgot to mention the spurs this time but I will tomorrow. Also yesterday he got into some peanuts meant for the birds - could this have upset his gut?

Sorry - many questions!
 
Snowymouse said:
Hi all, hope you can help give me some advice. My boy rabbit (Dust) was very quiet yesterday evening, I didn't see him touch his hay (he's normally a pretty good hay eater) but he still went mad for his pellets and had some fresh grass and hawthorn that I got for him so I wasn't too concerned. This morning however he was still acting strange and didn't run up to me as normal for breakfast, just sat there in a grump. When the pellets came out he got a bit more lively and ate them but then went back to sitting in a corner and completely ignored his fresh hay. Poo output was also down overnight so I took him to the vets this morning.

Now these vets aren't rabbit specialists but seem to know what they're doing. Today however I saw a different vet to normal. He said Dust had a normal temperature, didn't seem bloated and teeth seemed fine except that he didn't do a visual inspection of the teeth just said the jaw had a smooth motion to it, and as Dust is young (2.5yrs) he wouldn't expect dental issues. He said he will do a full dental insepction under GA if he thinks teeth are the issue. The last vet we saw here (in September) did do a visual check and said some small spurs were forming so I instantly thought teeth might be the problem.

He gave Dust injections of Baytril, a gut stimulant and metacam (after I asked for pain relief just in case) and wants to see him again tomorrow morning - does this sound okay? Is there anything I should ask at the second consult (presuming Dust is not much improved)? I forgot to mention the spurs this time but I will tomorrow. Also yesterday he got into some peanuts meant for the birds - could this have upset his gut?

Sorry - many questions!
Click to expand...

I would not be happy with today's consultation. Going off hay is a classic sign when Dental problems occur, especially spurs. The Rabbit uses a rotational jaw action when eating hay and this can mean that the spurs scratch the Rabbit's cheeks/tongue. Eating pellets involves a more 'up and down' jaw action so the spurs may not interfere with eating so much, at least not initially.

I would want to consult a much more Rabbit savvy Vet to get Dust's teeth checked again. As to why the Vet gave Baytril I have no idea, as you know it is an antibiotic and Dust does not appear to have any clinical evidence to point towards an active bacterial infection. The unnecessary prescribing of antibiotics is something all Vets (and Doctors) should avoid.

I hope that you are able to consult a different Vet tomorrow and that Dust will soon be feeling much better xx
 
Where abouts are you. Maybe you can start a thread asking for vet recommendations in your area
With teeth not everything is visible so an X ray could be needed to see if there are any spurs but I would definitely find a rabbit savvy vet first
 
Snowymouse said:
Hi all, hope you can help give me some advice. My boy rabbit (Dust) was very quiet yesterday evening, I didn't see him touch his hay (he's normally a pretty good hay eater) but he still went mad for his pellets and had some fresh grass and hawthorn that I got for him so I wasn't too concerned. This morning however he was still acting strange and didn't run up to me as normal for breakfast, just sat there in a grump. When the pellets came out he got a bit more lively and ate them but then went back to sitting in a corner and completely ignored his fresh hay. Poo output was also down overnight so I took him to the vets this morning.

Now these vets aren't rabbit specialists but seem to know what they're doing. Today however I saw a different vet to normal. He said Dust had a normal temperature, didn't seem bloated and teeth seemed fine except that he didn't do a visual inspection of the teeth just said the jaw had a smooth motion to it, and as Dust is young (2.5yrs) he wouldn't expect dental issues. He said he will do a full dental insepction under GA if he thinks teeth are the issue. The last vet we saw here (in September) did do a visual check and said some small spurs were forming so I instantly thought teeth might be the problem.

He gave Dust injections of Baytril, a gut stimulant and metacam (after I asked for pain relief just in case) and wants to see him again tomorrow morning - does this sound okay? Is there anything I should ask at the second consult (presuming Dust is not much improved)? I forgot to mention the spurs this time but I will tomorrow. Also yesterday he got into some peanuts meant for the birds - could this have upset his gut?

Sorry - many questions!
Click to expand...

Hello Snowmouse and welcome :wave:

I'm sorry to hear about Dust being off his food. What I would mention at the second consult is the peanuts and the dental, as you've identified. It sounds like he's got the beginnings of Gastic Stasis:

http://anyflip.com/dvpt/hzvv/basic

... and what your vet has given you is correct for that. He's also given Metacam which will help with any tooth pain.

I would get the vet to look into his mouth as best as possible. If your vet doesn't do 'conscious dentals' he won't be able to see more than about 60% of the back teeth (cheek teeth) but it's better than nothing. You want to avoid if possible Dust completely not eating, especially if he will require a GA for a possible dental.

Good luck xx
 
cpayne said:
Where abouts are you. Maybe you can start a thread asking for vet recommendations in your area
With teeth not everything is visible so an X ray could be needed to see if there are any spurs but I would definitely find a rabbit savvy vet first
Click to expand...

That's a good idea :)
 
It does sound like classic molar spurs problems. I would want his back teeth looking at properly if there is nothing else obvious. With patience, a vet should be able to see some of the back teeth with an otoscope - the thing normally used to look down ears, but put in the mouth in this case - during a normal examination. Not all tooth surfaces can be seen while a rabbit is conscious, though. If there were spurs noted before, I would be asking for these to be assessed again - and probably be prepared for a general anaesthetic. Meanwhile, get him eating as much of his normal food as possible (grass, pellets, etc) to keep his gut function normal and his poos as normal as possible. Good call to ask for pain relief - it can make a big difference to how much they will eat - and therefore help to avoid any gut stasis as a secondary issue. Also well done for getting prompt treatment when you noticed some changes in his normal behaviour. Rabbits are good at hiding symptoms and they can escalate quickly if left for even a few days.

I would also suggest seeing the vet who diagnosed the original spurs if possible. My preference is always for a vet who has experience with rabbit dentals.
 
Thank you for all the advice! You're all so helpful. It's reassuring to know I'm not just being paranoid about the vet not doing a good enough assessment. All the other vets I have seen have actually looked in the mouth so I'm not sure why this one didn't. He's actually the senior partner in the practice so I thought he might have more experience but clearly not!

A few hours later and Dust is still much the same but he is definitely eating his pellets more slowly...I'm sure teeth must be involved. Given that a GA may be in order I don't know whether to carry on with the current vets or get a referral to an exotics vet. The vet nurse in the past has recommended a place for specialist rabbit problems (Taylor & Marshall in Shifnal , Shrops) so that is an option. The only reason I didn't go there in the first place was because I was hoping it might be a simple case of tummy ache and our vets is much closer (and far less expensive for consults!).
 
I wasn't referred on to my specialist I just booked an appointment. If he's hardly eating you need to get him sorted quickly before he stops eating entirely. I would book an appointment. You'll be surprised at how much knowledge the specialist has. My specialist is actually any more expensive than my vets. It will work out cheaper in the long run for you if they are anyway by keep going back to the original one and not getting it sorted and a lot less stressful to get your bunny healthy again.
 
Snowymouse said:
Thank you for all the advice! You're all so helpful. It's reassuring to know I'm not just being paranoid about the vet not doing a good enough assessment. All the other vets I have seen have actually looked in the mouth so I'm not sure why this one didn't. He's actually the senior partner in the practice so I thought he might have more experience but clearly not!

A few hours later and Dust is still much the same but he is definitely eating his pellets more slowly...I'm sure teeth must be involved. Given that a GA may be in order I don't know whether to carry on with the current vets or get a referral to an exotics vet. The vet nurse in the past has recommended a place for specialist rabbit problems (Taylor & Marshall in Shifnal , Shrops) so that is an option. The only reason I didn't go there in the first place was because I was hoping it might be a simple case of tummy ache and our vets is much closer (and far less expensive for consults!).
Click to expand...

You're welcome :wave:

You don't need a referral to another vet. You can simply take yourself off to another one :D

http://findavet.rcvs.org.uk/find-a-vet/referrals-second-opinions-and-changing-practices/

I have also found an appointment with a specialist to be the same cost as my local vet, and in the long run, because they tend to deal with the issue much quicker, there are less consults.
 
cpayne said:
I wasn't referred on to my specialist I just booked an appointment. If he's hardly eating you need to get him sorted quickly before he stops eating entirely. I would book an appointment. You'll be surprised at how much knowledge the specialist has. My specialist is actually any more expensive than my vets. It will work out cheaper in the long run for you if they are anyway by keep going back to the original one and not getting it sorted and a lot less stressful to get your bunny healthy again.
Click to expand...

cpayne has given you good advice, especially about the importance of getting any Dental issues sorted out before Dust stops eating all together. I certainly would not want the Vet you consulted today to GA my Rabbit. The Vet may be great with Dogs and Cats but his Rabbit knowledge sounds to be minimal.
 
cpayne said:
I wasn't referred on to my specialist I just booked an appointment. If he's hardly eating you need to get him sorted quickly before he stops eating entirely. I would book an appointment. You'll be surprised at how much knowledge the specialist has. My specialist is actually any more expensive than my vets. It will work out cheaper in the long run for you if they are anyway by keep going back to the original one and not getting it sorted and a lot less stressful to get your bunny healthy again.
Click to expand...

Indeed - as I mentioned before, you need to get the GA done whilst he's still eating, even if only a bit. You don't want an anorexic rabbit to undergo a GA :)
 
Okay I took all your advice and he's booked into the exotics vet tomorrow morning - at least a proper assessment will put my mind at rest if nothing else! It's funny isn't it, I'm normally quite a confident person but I shied away from asking a vet if he knew what he was doing. Bit annoyed at myself to be honest. Dust is still munching leaves but is no longer interested in pellets (even mushed up ones) so something must be wrong because he's normally shoving his wifebun out of the way to get to them. Fingers crossed we get answers tomorrow.

Regarding money - he is insured with Petplan but I've fortunately never had to claim on it...would today's visit count towards the excess even if he continues with treatment elsewhere? Of course I will pay out regardless but it would be nice if the insurance could kick in sooner rather than later!
 
Snowymouse said:
Okay I took all your advice and he's booked into the exotics vet tomorrow morning - at least a proper assessment will put my mind at rest if nothing else! It's funny isn't it, I'm normally quite a confident person but I shied away from asking a vet if he knew what he was doing. Bit annoyed at myself to be honest. Dust is still munching leaves but is no longer interested in pellets (even mushed up ones) so something must be wrong because he's normally shoving his wifebun out of the way to get to them. Fingers crossed we get answers tomorrow.

Regarding money - he is insured with Petplan but I've fortunately never had to claim on it...would today's visit count towards the excess even if he continues with treatment elsewhere? Of course I will pay out regardless but it would be nice if the insurance could kick in sooner rather than later!
Click to expand...

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure PetPlan *should* pay up as it's the same condition.

I know what you mean about not wanting to ask a vet if they know what he/she is doing .. however, this gets a lot easier with practice, so start now :lol: You are paying a sum of money and you need to get your money's worth :D

Good luck for tomorrow!
 
Snowymouse said:
Okay I took all your advice and he's booked into the exotics vet tomorrow morning - at least a proper assessment will put my mind at rest if nothing else! It's funny isn't it, I'm normally quite a confident person but I shied away from asking a vet if he knew what he was doing. Bit annoyed at myself to be honest. Dust is still munching leaves but is no longer interested in pellets (even mushed up ones) so something must be wrong because he's normally shoving his wifebun out of the way to get to them. Fingers crossed we get answers tomorrow.

Regarding money - he is insured with Petplan but I've fortunately never had to claim on it...would today's visit count towards the excess even if he continues with treatment elsewhere? Of course I will pay out regardless but it would be nice if the insurance could kick in sooner rather than later!
Click to expand...

I'm glad you are consulting an Exotics Vet. I am not with Pet Plan so I cant comment on that issue. Best of luck for the appointment xx
 
I'm so pleased you're seeing a specialist now. It will get sorted a lot quicker. At least he is still eating something.
I'm not sure as never claimed but I should imagine it is since its the same issue.
Good luck tomorrow.
 
tonibun said:
Did he stop eating hi hay after he had eaten the peanuts? Did he eat a lot?
Click to expand...

Yes it was a few hours after. He can't have had many, I only saw one or two nibbled and then he must have lost interest. He had managed to escape his pen so I didn't witness it!
 
I haven't checked with them yet, I'll see what the damage is tomorrow and take it from there. I'll try and remember to update in case the info is useful to anyone else!
 
My Raven was only 1.5 years old when he needed a dental six months ago to remove some spurs. I only had him for eight months at the time, so I am not sure if prior diet, genetics, or other factors resulted in his needing a dental so early in life.
Keep your bunny eating to keep his gut moving even if you can only get him to eat mushy pellets or critical care.
 
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