2 boys and a girl...possibly?

Hello everyone :wave:

I have found myself in a position of having acquired 3 new furry friends over the weekend. I won't go into detail but they were living all together in a small guinea pig cage, so I had to take them! They are now in a extra large double cage in my garden.

The person I got them from seemed to think they were 2 boys and a girl. They said the boys had been together for a while and the girl had been living with them for about 2 months (in this small cage! :shock: ) Since bringing them home last night though, I have noticed the one they said was a girl keeps getting 'humped'. She just moves herself off to another part of the hutch but the boys seem to lay all over her sometimes. The boys hump each other too, well mainly one more than the other! they said 'someone' had been neutered but didnt really tell me who. I don't know there ages either.

Anyway, can I assume these are a bonded group and this behaivour is normal? They seem to get on mostly, but I feel sorry for the girl who seems to be being harrassed a bit more than the boys! I have had rabbits before but its been a few years and I cant remember normal rabbit socializing behaivour!

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated.

Well done for taking them on, although you may have taken on more than you bargained for... it's not normal bonded group behaviour (except when actually in the process of establishing a hierarchy)... but it is normal hormonal sexual behaviour...

You need to get these rabbits to the vets asap - they need to be sexed and neutered if they are to live together.

Unfortunately, if you leave them you will either soon have more bunnies to worry about, or you will have to deal with fighting. Unneutered rabbits don't often live happily together - males sometimes will get to the point that they seriously injure each other. I personally have had a female rabbit rip the ear off another, it was horrific. Short term it can work if you are careful, especially if they are young, but long-term it can be a disaster.

When can you get to the vets, could you make an appointment for tomorrow? Many vets have evening appointments. In the meantime, make sure the rabbits have plenty of space to get away from each other and a minimum of 3 hiding places. If there is no fighting just yet and no signs of injury, I wouldn't separate them till you know the sexes, unless of course you need to leave them a few days, then I would. You could have a go at sexing them yourself - if they are adult then you can often spot the balls on males, however you do still need to get a vet to confirm, as they can look very similar down below.

If the supposed female at any point starts making a nest, you must remove the others straight away - she may give birth within a few hours and can get pregnant again also immediately after.

It's certainly jumping in the deep end but we'll help you out with any questions

Moving home can trigger mounting behaviour, as it can be part of establishing hierarchy in the new territory, if that's it then it should settle down ove rthe next few weeks but it can also be mating behaviour.

I'd echo getting them to the vet to figure out who is a boy and who is a girl and which are neutered. The vet should also be able to give you an idea of ages.

Pregnancy is about 28-30 days in rabbits, so it's also worth noting the date somewhere so you know when you can breath a sigh of relief and no for sure there aren't extras on the way.

Mmmm it sounds like trouble brewing I'm afraid! Humping is normal as part of a display of dominance which can be seen in new bonds, fragile bonds (e.g. Like moving to a new cage as in your case), and hormones. Humping can also be a sign of sexual behaviour, obviously, and if only one of them is fixed (don't hold your breath - if people say they 'think' that one of them is done, or they can't give you explicit information, they almost invariably aren't) then it could well mean that babies are on the way, or will be very soon if these are youngsters.

It sounds to me as if you've got a precursor to world war 3 brewing there, possibly made all the worse by a potential pregnancy. In well bonded, neutered rabbits, you might see a little humping from time to time, but it's the exception rather than the rule. I don't think I've seen any of mine hump each other for years.

I would advise getting them to a vet tomorrow if you can, finding out their sexes and their neuter status - harder for the girl but should be pretty obvious for the boys - and based on that, work out what the priorities for action are. I very much fear that it won't be possible to keep all 3 of them in the same hutch for much longer if they are mixed sexes and/or unneutered - unneutered males will fight at some point and will attempt to castrate each other, resulting in potentially life threatening and very painful injuries. a change of environment, even if a nice one like in your case to bigger accommodation, can be a trigger for something like this to happen.

If there is at least one unneutered male and a female, you will need to separate them straight away as if she is already pregnant, you won't know how far along she is and if she gives birth while still with the boys then they will get her pregnant again the same day she gives birth! If the vet has a good feel and can't find evidence of a spay scar and can't find evidence of a pregnancy, I would advise an emergency spay asap so that she then cannot get pregnant. If there are two unneutered boys, they will need separating too, as like I say, they will castrate each other at some point, it tends to randomly 'kick off' without any prior warning and by the time you discover it has happened, it may be too late.

Sorry it's not the most positive post - if they are all got to the vets and neutered very quickly, then they may well all rebond nicely and go on to live together very happily, but if you're not able to do this really soon then I fear you may need to separate all the bunnies to live separately until you're able to get them all neutered, and then attempt to rebond them in a neutral place once their hormones have calmed down.

Best of luck with them, hopefully a vet can give you a good indication of what the current situation is, and then you can decide what to do next. Do you know of a vet in your area who is good with bunnies?

Oh blooming heck. Am worried now! Will the vet be able to tell if they have been neutered? Thanks peeps!

OK, just booked appointment for 4.30pm today. Have text this lady again to see if she can shed anymore light on the neutering, but I now know the girl is apparently 10 months and the boys about a year. It is definitely one of the boys doing all the humping, the other two are quite quiet - do I need to move this one out of the hutch today does anyone think? I am worried WW3 is going to break out before I get them to the vets! I do have a separate hutch I can put him in if needs be? Just worried about the other two being harassed!

I have not got a massive garden, I would like to keep two of them but don't know if three is too many for me, not being an experienced rabbit owner? or is it unfair to separate them? or would it be better to re-home the dominant one? I don't want the others harassed or the dominant one feeling threatened!

Urgh wish I had not gone round there! :evil:

LauraLou1982 said:

Oh blooming heck. Am worried now! Will the vet be able to tell if they have been neutered? Thanks peeps!

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The vet should be able to tell if the boys are neutered :thumb: it's much harder with a female but sometimes they can see a scar. Good luck at the vets, I hope it all turns out well! And welcome to the forum :wave:

elmoandfern said:

The vet should be able to tell if the boys are neutered :thumb: it's much harder with a female but sometimes they can see a scar. Good luck at the vets, I hope it all turns out well! And welcome to the forum :wave:

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Thanks for the welcome!

I have now separated them - put the boy that was chasing the others around into a seperate cage, I have faced it opposite though so he can still see the others but they were really banging around in there so I had to do something, no idea if this is the right thing to do!

The lady they came from has now admitted the girl is not castrated at all, but she 'assumes' the boys are as they were all living together for 2 months with no resulting babies.

Now i REALLY wish I hadn't gone round there!

LauraLou1982 said:

Thanks for the welcome!

I have now separated them - put the boy that was chasing the others around into a seperate cage, I have faced it opposite though so he can still see the others but they were really banging around in there so I had to do something, no idea if this is the right thing to do!

The lady they came from has now admitted the girl is not castrated at all, but she 'assumes' the boys are as they were all living together for 2 months with no resulting babies.

Now i REALLY wish I hadn't gone round there!

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I don't really have much experience with pregnancy and babies, but it sounds likely that they are done if she didn't get pregnant in 2 months, depending on how old she is!

Well done - if there was banging and crashing around the hutch I think you're right to have separated the one being the main cause, it sounds to me like they were on the verge of a nasty fight.

It should be really easy for your vet to tell if the boys are neutered, they have big 'plums' on the outside under their fur, sometimes they can suck them back inside but this usually still leaves the sack visible. In neutered boys, the sack shrinks away to nothing so there is nothing to see. If they are easy to handle, you might be able to have an initial look yourself. If you can see any pink 'plums' hanging through the fur between bunny's back legs, then you have an unneutered male.

I do wonder whether they have actually never been really bonded at all, but that the small space they were living in meant that they tolerated each other (and perhaps prevented a pregnancy too).

If it turns out that the boys are not neutered, I would advise getting the female booked in for an emergency spay as soon as possible. Ideally, if she seems happy with the other male and you want to keep them together as a pair, book him in to be done at the same time, then they can recover together and hopefully stay together. A couple of years back I took in a 'breeding pair', I rang my vet as soon as I knew I was picking them up, and got them booked in for the following day. I separated them overnight just in case babies arrived overnight, to prevent them from re-mating straight away. No babies arrived, so they both went in for their neuters and they recovered together and went straight back together as a pair. If you're able to get them booked in quickly, you may find that you're able to do the same without breaking the bond.

She is 10 months, and I think they are fertile from 4 months, so as long as she is telling the truth I can safely assume both boys are done!

Now one of the boys is in the other cage though, the boy left with the girl is humping her...he will try to hump her, she goes downstairs, he thumps about upstairs and then she goes back upstairs after a minute, and the cycle begins again! They do this a few times and then stop for a while. I have been trying to observe how they have been behaving.

Really don't know what to do for the best now! Feel silly for taking them, they were just in such a tiny cage I couldn't leave them! :roll: and now just want to do the best for them!

Santa said:

Well done - if there was banging and crashing around the hutch I think you're right to have separated the one being the main cause, it sounds to me like they were on the verge of a nasty fight.

It should be really easy for your vet to tell if the boys are neutered, they have big 'plums' on the outside under their fur, sometimes they can suck them back inside but this usually still leaves the sack visible. In neutered boys, the sack shrinks away to nothing so there is nothing to see. If they are easy to handle, you might be able to have an initial look yourself. If you can see any pink 'plums' hanging through the fur between bunny's back legs, then you have an unneutered male.

I do wonder whether they have actually never been really bonded at all, but that the small space they were living in meant that they tolerated each other (and perhaps prevented a pregnancy too).

If it turns out that the boys are not neutered, I would advise getting the female booked in for an emergency spay as soon as possible. Ideally, if she seems happy with the other male and you want to keep them together as a pair, book him in to be done at the same time, then they can recover together and hopefully stay together. A couple of years back I took in a 'breeding pair', I rang my vet as soon as I knew I was picking them up, and got them booked in for the following day. I separated them overnight just in case babies arrived overnight, to prevent them from re-mating straight away. No babies arrived, so they both went in for their neuters and they recovered together and went straight back together as a pair. If you're able to get them booked in quickly, you may find that you're able to do the same without breaking the bond.

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Thanks Santa, thats lovely thanks for taking the time to reply! I just want to do the best for them. The boy and girl are quiet now, ones upstairs and ones downstairs. If the boys are nuetered, apart form cancer prevention, will the girl need spaying straight away too? I didn't expect to end up with these buns so don't have the spare money for a spay at the moment, but would be able to do early Sept. I dont know what to do about the trio though? I feel bad for the one on his own now, and don't want the poor female harassed either! If it turns out both boys are castrated (and the girl isnt spayed) what would you do?! Any advice gratefully received!

I wouldn't assume that they're done because she hasn't had babies yet, sometimes it takes a while. And I wouldn't assume that the previous owner is telling the truth. She could have had babies just before you collected them. If she was in a guinea pig cage with two males she would probably have killed the babies.

If the males haven't been castrated, and the vet can't feel any babies, then getting her in for an emergency spay would be the best course of action. The vet may let you pay in instalments.

Thanks Captain Helen. What would you do if both boys are castrated?

If they've both been humping her and annoying her, then it might be better for the two boys to stay together and for her to stay on her own until she's been done, but ideally they'd want to live far enough apart so the smell of an unspayed female doesn't make the boys fight and fall out. So maybe the boys could stay outside and she could stay inside? (That's if the boys will go back together.)

Hmmmm. My little boys asthmatic so I couldn't really have her indoors unfortunately...so best case scenario the vet tonight says both boys are done, you would try and put the boys together and keep the girl separate, and then once she is spayed try and reintroduce her?

without seeing how they are all behaving, its hard to tell what's best really. If the boys are both neutered (fingers crossed!) then if the pair are happy and have now settled, are snuggling up together and are not humping I would be inclined to just leave them as a pair, and either see if the third one can be rebonded back in, or I don't know how you would feel about getting the third one onto a rescue waiting list so he can be rehomed with a female friend of his own. Without knowing whether the behaviour was more likely sexual or dominance, its hard to advise really, so I think we are probably best off waiting until the vet has had a look later and then trying to help advise you on what might be the best course of action.

If they are neutered, I would be very wary of putting the boy back in without treating it as a whole new bond, because what you have described from yesterday makes it sound as if they were on the verge of fighting and not happily bonded. Bonding can be a tricky thing to do even for experienced bonders, so I would genuinely be more inclined to leave the pair as they are (assuming they are happy as a pair)and then working out what to do with the third one. I think trying to bond two boys together at the moment might end up with even more upset, and the net result would still be two together and one separate, and as thats what you already have right now, I'd probably stick with that unless their behaviour suggests not to.

Please do keep us informed as to what the vet says later, good luck xx

So glad I just read your post santa, I was thinking of taking the girl out and putting the two boys back together!
I will wait and see what the vet says about sex/castration status and then post again if thats OK? I would be really interested in hearing your take on things and what I should do (limited to my descriptions obviously though, I know it must be difficult without seeing them). The boy and girl are quiet now, the girl is lying stretched out downstairs and the boy is upstairs eating and grooming himself, so not snuggling or anything but not humping anymore either! The single boy is also lying stretched out.

Will update you later this afternoon! Thanks for your help!

Oh yes, if the male and female are happily bonded and he's done then I'd leave them together. It just sounded like they weren't very happy together due to him humping her and them staying one upstairs and one downstairs to stay away from each other.

Yes, with my limited knowledge I wouldn't call them bonded, they are sitting seperately! But is it easier to get a good bond between a 2 than a 3? Just thinking of all my options depending on the outcome of this afternoons appointment. They are definitely tolerating each other better than all 3 were together, that was chaos!