Has anyone had their rabbits spayed using keyhole surgery?

Or is that what everywhere does now?

My last bun was spayed about 2 years ago, and it wasn't keyhole surgery then.

Belle's spay wasn't keyhole which was done 2months ago. They removed everything though not just the ovaries and it was Italian but they called him 'the rabbit god' so i think if keyhole was the best/most advanced thing he would have been able to do it. She had a pretty big line stitched up for the size of her and it really upset me when i saw it but it healed soo quick and she was back to her normal self within 2 days

I didn't think this was possible?

Very, very few veterinary surgeons are able to perform Laparoscopic surgery on rabbits, and it is considered the gold standard, but my vet only works with rabbits and my doe was spayed using this technique. It's not just about smaller wounds and less risk of infection, but it is in general much safer, visual surgery with far lower risks. My bun is tiny and had a dreadful start in life being almost starved to death. She was spayed a little later because with this keyhole surgery they do need to weigh a minimum of 1kg, and we needed to get some weight on her beforehand. I'm so glad Simon could do this and apparently does about a 1000 a year, because I think the more usual way would have been too traumatic for me if I'm honest. Couldn't bear to see Pippa with a bigger incision.

My understanding is that rabbit keyhole surgery for spaying doesn't remove the uterus, it simply removes/ties off the ovaries and leaves the uterus in place. Given that aside from eliminating pregnancy, the main reason for spaying females is to remove the risk of uterine cancer (and, to a lesser extent, pyometra), current keyhole surgery probably wouldn't be suitable for most bunnies at the moment. I'd be interested to know if your vet does remove the uterus completely when he does it, RogerRabbit, as it sounds as if he is very experienced at the op.

RogerRabbit999 said:

Very, very few veterinary surgeons are able to perform Laparoscopic surgery on rabbits, and it is considered the gold standard, but my vet only works with rabbits and my doe was spayed using this technique. It's not just about smaller wounds and less risk of infection, but it is in general much safer, visual surgery with far lower risks. My bun is tiny and had a dreadful start in life being almost starved to death. She was spayed a little later because with this keyhole surgery they do need to weigh a minimum of 1kg, and we needed to get some weight on her beforehand. I'm so glad Simon could do this and apparently does about a 1000 a year, because I think the more usual way would have been too traumatic for me if I'm honest. Couldn't bear to see Pippa with a bigger incision.

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When I spoke to the vet that performs the spay about it he told me he had a lot of experience in other countries and it was safer, easier etc. He also mentioned about the risks of uterine cancer so surely the uterus must be removed? That's what I'm confused about Thanks for your informative answer though.

How interesting! Which vet have you been speaking to? I'm in Essex too so I'd be really interested to know who is doing keyhole surgery on bunnies in these parts - especially if it does remove all the uterus too.

I briefly looked in to this before and I from what I gathered the other posters are right in saying they don't remove the uterus. Would be interesting to see what the situation actually is, as I did find it confusing :?

Santa said:

How interesting! Which vet have you been speaking to? I'm in Essex too so I'd be really interested to know who is doing keyhole surgery on bunnies in these parts - especially if it does remove all the uterus too.

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Don't take my word for it because he only vaguely skimmed over everything but he was Aubrey Kumm at Companion Care Harlow vets. You can read about him here: http://www.companioncare.co.uk/Harlow-meet-our-team.html

Thanks Well I had no idea we had someone in Essex who is one of only 11 in Europe to hold that qualification and an amazing array of expensive equipment! He looks quite hot, too

I can't find any info on bunny laparascopic spays, but the general info I've seen for dogs suggests that it is normal to just tie off and remove ovaries and to leave the uterus in tact - but that removing the ovaries does seem to prevent pyometra in the remaining uterus :shock: I wonder if the same is true of the cancer risk in bunnies - I guess it's possible that it's hormonally driven from the ovaries so taking the ovaries out has the same impact, maybe? Even if this is the explanation, I'm still not certain I'd go with it yet, as I doubt there are large enough numbers who have had it done to test that theory out. Fascinating though, and I'm sure it will become much more common over the coming years!

Santa said:

Thanks Well I had no idea we had someone in Essex who is one of only 11 in Europe to hold that qualification and an amazing array of expensive equipment! He looks quite hot, too

I can't find any info on bunny laparascopic spays, but the general info I've seen for dogs suggests that it is normal to just tie off and remove ovaries and to leave the uterus in tact - but that removing the ovaries does seem to prevent pyometra in the remaining uterus :shock: I wonder if the same is true of the cancer risk in bunnies - I guess it's possible that it's hormonally driven from the ovaries so taking the ovaries out has the same impact, maybe? Even if this is the explanation, I'm still not certain I'd go with it yet, as I doubt there are large enough numbers who have had it done to test that theory out. Fascinating though, and I'm sure it will become much more common over the coming years!

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Would it be more complicated in Rabbits given that they have two uterine horns ?

Santa said:

Thanks Well I had no idea we had someone in Essex who is one of only 11 in Europe to hold that qualification and an amazing array of expensive equipment! He looks quite hot, too

I can't find any info on bunny laparascopic spays, but the general info I've seen for dogs suggests that it is normal to just tie off and remove ovaries and to leave the uterus in tact - but that removing the ovaries does seem to prevent pyometra in the remaining uterus :shock: I wonder if the same is true of the cancer risk in bunnies - I guess it's possible that it's hormonally driven from the ovaries so taking the ovaries out has the same impact, maybe? Even if this is the explanation, I'm still not certain I'd go with it yet, as I doubt there are large enough numbers who have had it done to test that theory out. Fascinating though, and I'm sure it will become much more common over the coming years!

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:lol: you'll have to go for a visit. I think I'm going to ask him lots of questions and maybe go with it if he assures me she won't have any higher risks of cancer etc. I don't know any rabbit savvy vets near me apart from them so I would find it quite hard to get her spayed anywhere else. I don't drive so have to rely on lifts from people. Still not sure though. Thanks for all that info

I know a vet who does this too, strangely he is also South African! He removes everything including the uterus and cervix, but it does require specialist equipment as well as training so it is still a very rare procedure in rabbits. None of mine have been done this way as they were already spayed when he joined the practice, and now unfortunately he doesn't work there any more It also cannot be performed on older does due to the deposition of fat around the uterus as they get older. I know someone who had their rabbit spayed by him and she recovered very quickly, she was back to her normal self by the next morning. There is no large wound so they are not as sore afterwards

jazxo said:

:lol: you'll have to go for a visit.

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I go to the Chelmsford Companion Care, I'll ask my vet if she knows of him next time I'm in there - I don't know how much they 'network' between branches or if they all act independently so don't know others in the chain at all.

Good luck - I'd be really interested to hear the outcome of your chat and if you go ahead

Santa said:

My understanding is that rabbit keyhole surgery for spaying doesn't remove the uterus, it simply removes/ties off the ovaries and leaves the uterus in place. Given that aside from eliminating pregnancy, the main reason for spaying females is to remove the risk of uterine cancer (and, to a lesser extent, pyometra), current keyhole surgery probably wouldn't be suitable for most bunnies at the moment. I'd be interested to know if your vet does remove the uterus completely when he does it, RogerRabbit, as it sounds as if he is very experienced at the op.

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From what I can remember, to spay using this procedure and to remove the uterus, ideally it would be done as soon as bunny is 16 weeks old and weighing at least 1kg. Pippa was 27 weeks, but because she had been nearly starved to death and so something to do with less fatty deposits, she was still considered an ideal candidate for the keyhole surgery. Also, because of her very bad start in life, he felt it was much safer for her as well. Pippa's inicision's were approx 5mm and were glued not stitched. Apparently less risk of infection with glue. I've just realised I have wrongly called it 'keyhole surgery' which isn't actually good on such a small animal as a rabbit. Pippa had and you must make sure your vet is going to actually do 'laparoscopic' surgery, which is when they watch what they are doing on like a tv screen. Keyhole surgery how I understand it is very bad, because they are then trying to remove organs through very small incisions and can't actually see what they are doing because there are no screens used. In older rabbits using this procedure the uterus does need to be left in place, but my vet explained that as long as the ovaries and all the ovary tissue is removed, it is perfectly safe because when the overies are removed hormone production totally ceases and it becomes impossible for these tumours to occur because the source of Progesterone has been removed. He has been neutering rabbits using this procedure for nearly 12yrs, and there is no evidence of any increased risk. Interestingly, apparently he has only lost one rabbit in all this time as well using 'laparoscopic' surgery, but more with the usual open surgery because of the greater risks involved. When Pippa was spayed I can honestly say she was absolutely fine and had no pain the following day, and really was back to normal that quickly. As we all know, rabbits cope very badly with pain, and there is definately a lot more pain involved with the usual open surgery. I think few practices offer it because it is very technically demanding, and the vet needs a lot more training, and I don't think so many vets are interested in specialising in bunnies. The cost of the specialised paediatric equipment might not be justified in a lot of practices, especially if they don't even see many bunnies, but I guess because my vet only works with buns and guinea pigs, he only needs to buy that equipment, not stuff for dogs etc as well. I love the fact as well that because of his patients small size he uses 2 induction agents, whereas in practices that mainly do dogs etc, they just have one normally, which is perfectly fine for bigger pets, but for bunnies is to restrictive, and if you run into problems and the bun isn't very stable, I don't quite see what they can do then. Probably that is when they end up going too deep and fail to wake up. Pippa as well as being nearly starved to death was so horrendously abused that initially she screamed every time she was picked up, and I just couldn't face putting her through something that would cause her more pain than was actually needed. I'm not knocking the traditional open surgery at all, and most places is what they do, but fortunately I had a choice, and taking into account Pippa's history I just wanted her to have what seemed to be the easier, better option.

Interesting - so it sounds like it might be a fine technique for young bunnies where removing the ovaries but leaving the uterus removes the risk of uterine cancer because it is driven by hormones - but maybe not for older bunnies where there is a possibility that they might already have uterine changes? It's fascinating stuff and I've certainly learnt something in this thread!

Santa said:

Interesting - so it sounds like it might be a fine technique for young bunnies where removing the ovaries but leaving the uterus removes the risk of uterine cancer because it is driven by hormones - but maybe not for older bunnies where there is a possibility that they might already have uterine changes? It's fascinating stuff and I've certainly learnt something in this thread!

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Yes that is exactly it, but Pippa's uterus was removed and is removed in younger bunnies i.e. under 2, but cannot be after that age because of the size increase because of the fatty deposits. But apparently with the ovaries removed and the uterus left in older buns, there has not been any indication that it is not effective at preventing uterine cancer anyway, and as how my vet explained it, was that if there was any, than the laprascopic surgery could be carried out up until 2 yrs old, providing the bun is not overweight, and then the traditional surgery would be the only option thereafter to remove the uterus, and they are constantly kept up to date with research and when changes need to be made and of course act accordingly, but that there has been nothing to suggest that there is any increased risk of leaving the uterus after 2yrs of age, but absolutely all the ovarian tissue must be removed. Does that make sense??

Wow so much interesting information on this thread! I definitely have a lot to talk to the vet about. Do you think I could just call them and request to talk to him or would I have to make an appointment just to talk to him? :?

jazxo said:

Wow so much interesting information on this thread! I definitely have a lot to talk to the vet about. Do you think I could just call them and request to talk to him or would I have to make an appointment just to talk to him? :?

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I would phone them and ask when would be a good time to call to discuss spaying your bunny. If you make an appointment that is in effect taking up a consultation slot. When I need to discuss something with my vet, I know to phone about 11.30, as the morning surgery has finished, and he starts his ops at 12 but has a half hr slot for speaking to clients, and discussing inpatients with the nurses. I would have thought most vets would have to manage their time like that.