Ec impossible to get rid of?

If I've touched my rabbit who had EC adonia, then my other buns are suspected of having it. Even if i treat them all for the time period- is it likely to recur? Can this not travel on my cats also aswell as my own clothing etc. I can't possibly see how it is possible to bleach everything that myself or the cats and rabbits have been into contact with. Is it contagious to hamsters?

Can someone give me a step by step routine to eradicate it completely please or as near possible? I mean- i've been in contact with so many things- if it's on me. It would be impossible to actually eradicate.

Do the cats need any additional treatment or my hamster?

no idea about cats but from what i hear bleaching everything your rabbit may have wee'd on is the way to eradicate it at day 21 and 28 of the course. i dont see how i can completly do so either as the grass cannot be bleached.sigh. i think other animals can carry it but not contract it if they have walked in a wee'd area, hope this helps im in a similar dilema with my buns x

bunlover said:

no idea about cats but from what i hear bleaching everything your rabbit may have wee'd on is the way to eradicate it at day 21 and 28 of the course. i dont see how i can completly do so either as the grass cannot be bleached.sigh. i think other animals can carry it but not contract it if they have walked in a wee'd area, hope this helps im in a similar dilema with my buns x

Click to expand...

None of my other buns have been anywhere near where she has wee'd i know this for certain. It's just any spores that may have been carried on me- or is that just through wee only? If it's just wee then i don't think i have anything at all to worry about. I'm thinking i couldn't have transfered the EC everywhere- to the cats- handling my hamster, generally anywhere i've touched if it survives 30 days- but she didn't pee on me either.

Ive heard its just spores in the urine.
When I had an EC scare I bleached like everything :lol: and kept them off the grass the rabbit had been on for just over a month.

:wave: Ambience
I have replied to your thread previously suggesting ways you can reduce the risk of passing ec on between buns.
Like you I was unable to bleach everything and while I agree your rabbit may not have wee'd on you - it would be likely the spores of ec are on her feet as she would obviously walked around where she has wee'd.

Like many others I have 4 rabbits, 2 hamsters, 5 cats and a dog and therefore there is always potential of passing parasites (apart from but including ec) between others. Also shortly after Buttercup began recovering from ec she was taken in for boarding by a very very reputable rabbit boarder who like us handled Buttercup responsibly and kept her and anything there was likely to be spores on away from other boarders.

Perhaps you would be more reassured if you spoke to your vet about how the spores pass between buns and the best way to minimise further risk.

Best wishes

Ruth xx :wave:

The spores are in the urine. They can live for up to 4 months after being in the urine. I would think that, in this recent weather, any outside would have les chance of being alive!

I have had two house buns with EC, i could only bleach the cage base, litter trays etc. I washed all washable bedding at 60degrees and chucked the hay etc.

I have carpets in some rooms, this could not be bleached.

I was worried about this because we are treated Muesli and Starbuck for EC and they are housebunnies, so I was worried because there has been some urine on the carpets, which we have got up with vinegar, but obviously we cant bleach the carpet.

My OH has said that the vet said the main bit to worry about is wherever they eat - as it is in the urine spores and then if this contaminates any bits of hay or whatever and then they eat that, that is how it is re-ingested (?). So I am going to make sure that they eat nowhere else except their pen/base for at least the next 4 months.

I dont know if that helps you at all though.

Kermit said:

The spores are in the urine. They can live for up to 4 months after being in the urine. I would think that, in this recent weather, any outside would have les chance of being alive!

I have had two house buns with EC, i could only bleach the cage base, litter trays etc. I washed all washable bedding at 60degrees and chucked the hay etc.

I have carpets in some rooms, this could not be bleached.

Click to expand...

I thought it was 4 weeks, not 4 months.

For carpets, they can be steamed.

Again I have to agree with the advice given here - RU ers certainly know their stuff as it is based on experience and the love they have for their furries as well as the concern for everyone else's furries!

Steam cleaning carpet is an option as been said. Washing the clothes you have worn on a good wash cycle will save you bleaching them though the 'bleached look' may catch on!! :lol: Wish it would in our house as I always have bleach splash marks on clothes especially around my tummy and boobs - I'm short so often end up stretching and getting wet around that area when bleaching out cages etc :roll:

I have maintained some basic routine as far as ec goes. Our 4 buns are panacured every few months (under the direction of our brilliant rabbit savvy vet), I bleach the night cages every other wash out so once a fortnight, I try to keep all rabbit food up off the floor to reduce the risk of buns weeing on or walking on and then eating hay etc. I also bleach solution all our wooden, tiled and laminate floors and the cat litter trays (which are sometimes used by the buns) once a week.

I don't steam the carpets but we only have them in two bedrooms and the lounge anyway and the rabbits don't eat in either unless they are having hand fed treats.

The reality of it is that we can never totally eradicate this horrible parasite but we can minimse the risk. Also if you read some of the many articles found on the net about EC they say that many rabbits carry ec but remain unaffected.

We can and should do our best but need to stay real too - that's easy for me to say now 10 months down the line after Buttercup being so ill. If nothing else though her illness and subsequent recovery has made me more determined to help others who are going through the same ordeal as Buttercup.

Good luck, hang in there and believe that what you are doing is right.

Best wishes

Ruth xx

Again I have to agree with the advice given here - RU ers certainly know their stuff as it is based on experience and the love they have for their furries as well as the concern for everyone else's furries!

Steam cleaning carpet is an option as been said. Washing the clothes you have worn on a good wash cycle will save you bleaching them though the 'bleached look' may catch on!! :lol: Wish it would in our hose as I always have bleach splash marks on clothes especially around my tummy and boobs - I'm short so often end up stretching and getting wet around that area when bleaching out cages etc :roll:

I have maintained some basic routine as far as ec goes. Our 4 buns are panacured every few months (under the direction of our brilliant rabbit savvy vet), I bleach the night cages every other wash out so once a fortnight, I try to keep all rabbit food up off the floor to reduce the risk of buns weeing on or walking on and then eating hay etc. I also bleach solution all our wooden, tiled and laminate floors and the cat litter trays (which are sometimes used by the buns) once a week.

I don't steam the carpets but we only have them in two bedrooms and the lounge anyway and the rabbits don't eat in either unless they are having hand fed treats.

The reality of it is that we can never totally eradicate this horrible parasite but we can minimse the risk. Also if you read some of the many articles found on the net about EC they say that many rabbits carry ec but remain unaffected.

We can and should do our best but need to stay real too - that's easy for me to say now 10 months down the line after Buttercup being so ill. If nothing else though her illness and subsequent recovery has made me more determined to help others who are going through the same ordeal as Buttercup.

Good luck, hang in there and believe that what you are doing is right.

Best wishes

Ruth xx

one of the family said:

Again I have to agree with the advice given here - RU ers certainly know their stuff as it is based on experience and the love they have for their furries as well as the concern for everyone else's furries!

Steam cleaning carpet is an option as been said. Washing the clothes you have worn on a good wash cycle will save you bleaching them though the 'bleached look' may catch on!! :lol: Wish it would in our house as I always have bleach splash marks on clothes especially around my tummy and boobs - I'm short so often end up stretching and getting wet around that area when bleaching out cages etc :roll:

I have maintained some basic routine as far as ec goes. Our 4 buns are panacured every few months (under the direction of our brilliant rabbit savvy vet), I bleach the night cages every other wash out so once a fortnight, I try to keep all rabbit food up off the floor to reduce the risk of buns weeing on or walking on and then eating hay etc. I also bleach solution all our wooden, tiled and laminate floors and the cat litter trays (which are sometimes used by the buns) once a week.

I don't steam the carpets but we only have them in two bedrooms and the lounge anyway and the rabbits don't eat in either unless they are having hand fed treats.

The reality of it is that we can never totally eradicate this horrible parasite but we can minimse the risk. Also if you read some of the many articles found on the net about EC they say that many rabbits carry ec but remain unaffected.

We can and should do our best but need to stay real too - that's easy for me to say now 10 months down the line after Buttercup being so ill. If nothing else though her illness and subsequent recovery has made me more determined to help others who are going through the same ordeal as Buttercup.

Good luck, hang in there and believe that what you are doing is right.

Best wishes

Ruth xx

Click to expand...

Thats a very thoughtful post! Thanks for the advice.

vee-jay said:

Ive heard its just spores in the urine.
When I had an EC scare I bleached like everything :lol: and kept them off the grass the rabbit had been on for just over a month.

Click to expand...

Thanks.

one of the family said:

:wave: Ambience
I have replied to your thread previously suggesting ways you can reduce the risk of passing ec on between buns.
Like you I was unable to bleach everything and while I agree your rabbit may not have wee'd on you - it would be likely the spores of ec are on her feet as she would obviously walked around where she has wee'd.

Like many others I have 4 rabbits, 2 hamsters, 5 cats and a dog and therefore there is always potential of passing parasites (apart from but including ec) between others. Also shortly after Buttercup began recovering from ec she was taken in for boarding by a very very reputable rabbit boarder who like us handled Buttercup responsibly and kept her and anything there was likely to be spores on away from other boarders.

Perhaps you would be more reassured if you spoke to your vet about how the spores pass between buns and the best way to minimise further risk.

Best wishes

Ruth xx :wave:

Click to expand...

Thanks Ruth- i have a book coming by frances harcourt brown- i'll see what she has to say about it.

Kermit said:

The spores are in the urine. They can live for up to 4 months after being in the urine. I would think that, in this recent weather, any outside would have les chance of being alive!

I have had two house buns with EC, i could only bleach the cage base, litter trays etc. I washed all washable bedding at 60degrees and chucked the hay etc.

I have carpets in some rooms, this could not be bleached.

Click to expand...

I have wood floors too which i can't do anything about. Guess i just don't let my other buns run round on it for 30 days.

Thanks.

helgalush said:

I was worried about this because we are treated Muesli and Starbuck for EC and they are housebunnies, so I was worried because there has been some urine on the carpets, which we have got up with vinegar, but obviously we cant bleach the carpet.

My OH has said that the vet said the main bit to worry about is wherever they eat - as it is in the urine spores and then if this contaminates any bits of hay or whatever and then they eat that, that is how it is re-ingested (?). So I am going to make sure that they eat nowhere else except their pen/base for at least the next 4 months.

I dont know if that helps you at all though.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I'm not sure- it still confuses me abit- If the rabbits are all infected now- even once treated do they remain carriers?

one of the family said:

Again I have to agree with the advice given here - RU ers certainly know their stuff as it is based on experience and the love they have for their furries as well as the concern for everyone else's furries!

Steam cleaning carpet is an option as been said. Washing the clothes you have worn on a good wash cycle will save you bleaching them though the 'bleached look' may catch on!! :lol: Wish it would in our house as I always have bleach splash marks on clothes especially around my tummy and boobs - I'm short so often end up stretching and getting wet around that area when bleaching out cages etc :roll:

I have maintained some basic routine as far as ec goes. Our 4 buns are panacured every few months (under the direction of our brilliant rabbit savvy vet), I bleach the night cages every other wash out so once a fortnight, I try to keep all rabbit food up off the floor to reduce the risk of buns weeing on or walking on and then eating hay etc. I also bleach solution all our wooden, tiled and laminate floors and the cat litter trays (which are sometimes used by the buns) once a week.

I don't steam the carpets but we only have them in two bedrooms and the lounge anyway and the rabbits don't eat in either unless they are having hand fed treats.

The reality of it is that we can never totally eradicate this horrible parasite but we can minimse the risk. Also if you read some of the many articles found on the net about EC they say that many rabbits carry ec but remain unaffected.

We can and should do our best but need to stay real too - that's easy for me to say now 10 months down the line after Buttercup being so ill. If nothing else though her illness and subsequent recovery has made me more determined to help others who are going through the same ordeal as Buttercup.

Good luck, hang in there and believe that what you are doing is right.

Best wishes

Ruth xx

Click to expand...

Thanks Ruth,

So glad that buttercup is okay- I think you have done a fantastic job nursing her back to health and managing the problems associated with EC.

Great advice xx

I have posted this link on several of your EC threads

http://wildlife1.wildlifeinformation.org/S/00dis/Parasitic/Encephalitozoonosis.htm


Please take the time to read it. It explains how EC is transmitted, how it effects the Rabbit etc. It may be a lot to read but it really does answer your questions

The understanding of EC is still very much 'work in progress' for VETS. There has been limited research and much more needs to be done in this respect to enable a better understanding of the disease.

Jack's-Jane said:

The understanding of EC is still very much 'work in progress' for VETS. There has been limited research and much more needs to be done in this respect to enable a better understanding of the disease.

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was going to say. There is not much knowledg around and not much study done in recent years (although I believe there is one due or running at the mo) and its mostly based on inaccurate info from previous years.

With regards to the bleaching, I remember the post with the feedback from the RWA conference and they said that the only reason day 21 and 28 were chosen was because it was a 'round number' or something to that effect. So there is no proper cleaning schedule actually based on evidence of the spore (as I understand it).

In terms of whether EC rabbits are always carriers, my experience tells me that they are. However my understanding is that the spores are only shed at certain times.

just picking out bits i was interestetd to find in janes long article on ec, there are many more details in the article link she supplied iv just highlighted a few bits that were useful to me.

This parasite may remain infective in contaminated bedding and environment.

* Dry spores: at 22° C they remain infective outside of the host for over a month. (B602.20.w20, B603.3.w3)
* Wet spores: may remain infective for 98 days. (B603.3.w3)
Specific Medical Treatment
--
Lagomorphs Treatment of this disease is not always successful but in many cases it has at least led to an improvement. However, if the patient does not receive any treatment there is increased likelihood of this animal being euthanised due to severe neurologic disease. (B602.20.w20)

The aims of treatment are to reduce inflammation and prevent the formation of spores. (B601.11.w11)

* Benzimidazole anthelmintics
o Effective against this parasite in vitro and they have been reported to prevent experimental infection in the rabbit. However, their efficacy in rabbits showing clinical signs of this disease is not known. There are anecdotal reports suggesting a response to treatment but often rabbits with neurological signs may improve with or without treatment. (B609.2.w2)
o Long term treatment is recommended, as treatment will only prevent replication rather than killing the parasite. (B609.2.w2)
o Eradication of this parasite is possible with prolonged use of a benzimidazole. (B603.4.w4)
o Treatments include using one of the following:
+ Fenbendazole
# 20 mg/kg orally every 24 hours for 28 days. (B601.11.w11, B602.20.w20, B603.4.w4, B609.2.w2)
# This is presently the only drug with published data showing it to be effective in vivo. It is not effective against clinical disease but in the elimination of the parasite from rabbits infected naturally. It has also been effective in vivo in preventing infection and serological conversion in animals experimentally inoculated with this parasite. (B602.20.w20, B603.3.w3, B603.5.w5)
+ Oxibendazole
# 30 mg/kg orally every 24 hours for 7 to 14 days then reduce to 15 mg/kg every 24 hours for 30 to 60 days. (B602.20.w20, B609.2.w2)
* In some cases, the neurological signs have abated during treatment with this drug and then reoccurred after the treatment was stopped. Treatment with oxibendazole should be continued indefinitely in these cases at 15 to 30 mg/kg orally every 24 hours. (B602.20.w20)
+ Albendazole
# 20-30 mg/kg every 24 hours for 30 days then 15 mg/kg PO every 24 hours for another 30 days. (B602.20.w20, B609.2.w2)
# 10-15 mg/kg orally every 24 hours for three months. (B602.20.w20)
# This drug is reportedly the most effective agent for the treatment of microsporidiosis in humans. It is thought to have better absorption from oral administration in comparison to the other benzimidazoles. It has also been reported that dexamethasone administration increases the plasma levels of albendazole by 50 %. (B602.20.w20)
# Associated with bone marrow toxicity in cats and dogs but the toxicity in rabbits is not known; "however, anecdotal reports of pancytopenia leading to death in rabbits exist".
(B609.2.w2)
* Antibiotics
o Some practitioners prescribe systemic broad spectrum antibiotic therapy to be used concurrently with the 28 day course of fenbendazole. One of the following can be used:
+ Enrofloxacin: 10mg/kg orally every twelve hours for seven to ten days. (B601.11.w11)
+ Trimethoprim (Antibiotic) (Chemical Page)Trimethoprim (Sulphonamides): 15-30mg/kg orally every 12 hours for seven to ten days. (B601.11.w11)
+ Chloramphenicol: 50 mg/kg by subcutaneous injection every twelve hours for seven days. (B602.20.w20)
* Systemic corticosteroids
o Anti inflammatory medication is most important in acute disease. The clinical signs seen are caused not by the presence of the parasite but by the granulomatous inflammation. (B603.4.w4)
o Dexamethasone:
+ 0.1 - 0.2 mg/kg subcutaneously every 48 hours for three doses may be used in rabbits that present with the acute stage of disease. (B601.11.w11)
+ "0.1 mg/kg SC q24h, then at 48h for two more doses". (B602.20.w20)
o Some practitioners advocate this for treating CNS granulomatous inflammation induced by the Encephalitozoon cuniculi infection. Most advise a single immunosuppressive dose of a short acting corticosteroid and then subsequent anti-inflammatory doses if necessary. However, this is controversial. (B609.2.w2)
o Precautions:
+ The use of either topical or systemic corticosteroids is controversial in rabbits with encephalitozoonosis. Rabbits are particularly sensitive to the immunosuppressive effects of these drugs. It is possible that they may exacerbate the encephalitozoonosis or a subclinical bacterial infection. (B609.2.w2)

For the treatment of phacoclastic uveitis

* 1% Prednisolone acetate drops every 6 to12 hours for 5 days. (B609.2.w2)
o See precautions of corticosteroids above.
* Use benzimidazole anthelmintics concurrently. (B609.2.w2)
* Albendazole, 30 mg/kg orally every 24 hours for four weeks, plus topical steroids. (B601.11.w11)
o In one case, the lens and associated granuloma were removed by phacoemulsification. Recurrent granuloma in the anterior chamber was treated successfully with albendazole orally (30 mg/kg daily for four weeks, then 15 mg/kg daily for four weeks) plus topical 1% prednisolone (every six hours for four weeks then every 12 hours for four weeks). (J541.7.w1)

For the treatment of severe vestibular signs (torticollis or rolling) or seizures
One of the following medications can be used:

* Diazepam
o 1-2 mg/kg intramuscularly (B609.2.w2)
o 0.5 mg/kg subcutaneously, intramuscularly, or intravenously. May repeat three times in refractory cases. (B601.11.w11)
o 0.1 mg/kg by subcutaneous injection as necessary. (B602.20.w20)
* Midazolam
o 1-2 mg/kg intramuscularly (B609.2.w2)
o 0.07-0.22 mg/kg intravenously or intramuscularly. May repeat three times in refractory cases. (B601.11.w11)
o This drug may also be used by subcutaneous injection. (B602.20.w20)

For the treatment of vestibular signs

* Meclizine
o 2 - 12 mg/kg orally every 24 hours may reduce the clinical signs, control nausea, and provide mild sedation. (B609.2.w2)
enviromental control measures
* Good sanitation. (J29.5.w1)
* Clean the environment daily, because spores are inactivated by most of the common disinfectants including:
o quaternary ammonium compounds
o amphoteric surfactants
o phenolic derivatives
o alcohols
o iodophors
o hydrogen peroxide
(B609.2.w2, B614.10.w10)
* Spores are also easily destroyed by autoclaving and boiling. (B601.11.w11)
* To reduce the risk of urinary transmission, use raised food dishes and use water bottles rather than bowls. (B601.11.w11)
* Avoid contact with wild rabbits and rodents who could possibly act as a source of infection. (B601.11.w11, B602.20.w20)
sion

* Ingestion: the spores are shed in urine and are infective by ingestion of contaminated water or food. (B600.16.w16, B601.11.w11, B602.20.w20, B603.4.w4, B604.5.w5, B614.10.w10, J29.5.w1)
* Inhalation: spores may also be inhaled. (B600.16.w16, B601.11.w11, B602.20.w20, B603.4.w4)
* Young rabbits may be infected by their dam within the first few days of life. (B600.16.w16)
o Maternal transfer of immunity appears to occur in newborn rabbits. (B600.16.w16)
+ Maternal antibodies subside when the young rabbit is around four weeks old. (B604.5.w5)
o The major exchange between the doe and her young occurs between the fourth and sixth weeks of life. Sero-conversion of the young rabbits occurs during the seventh and ninth weeks of life. (B604.5.w5)
* Transplacental transmission also occurs. (B601.11.w11)
o Transplacental transmission, with the organism entering the lens during development of the eye in utero is thought to be responsible for cases of ocular encephalitozoonosis. (B600.11.w11, B601.12.w12)
* Most rabbits are exposed to this disease in utero or at birth. (B609.2.w2)
* Endo- or ectoparasites may act as transport/vector hosts. (B603.4.w4, B614.10.w10)
* Rabbits that are showing clinical signs of this disease are no longer shedding spores as the spores are only shed for three weeks after infection.
and lastlly this section
General Information on Environmental Factors/Events and Seasonality

* This parasite may remain infective in contaminated bedding and environment.
o Dry spores: at 22° C they remain infective outside of the host for over a month. (B602.20.w20, B603.3.w3)
o Wet spores: may remain infective for 98 days. (B603.3.w3)

iv split it into sections by making every other topic bold hope that this helps anyone without time to read whole article. though you should really i had to look up several words as didnt understand the medical meaning but am a bit clearer now! x