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to those with trios/those who have attempted trios.

BattleKat

BattleKat

Wise Old Thumper
I know I'm flooding the place with threads but I really just want to do the best thing by my bunnies so please bear with me!

If you have (or have tried) a trio where two already bonded rabbits are introduced to a third do you find that one bunny gets left out? Has anyone had any experiences where the original pair's bond was broken?

I have two small breed girls and want to introduce a french lop buck but I'm getting increasingly worried that it will all go horribly wrong and I'll end up with three separate rabbits.

I'm thinking that, if the woman selling the frenchies will let me, I'll take my two girls up in the car and pop them in a run with him to see their initial reactions and take whichever buck they seem least against. Only thing is it's about a 40 minute car journey each way and I think this could be quite stressful for them.

Been up practically all night worrying about this :(
 
I HAD a trio. I had Mischa and Mini and then a friend said could I find a home for Nutmeg. I jumped at the chance because I'd always wanted a lionhead and I did successfully 'bond' her with the other two. There wasn't any fighting or nipping or even much humping to be honest. They tolerated her and licked her and she sometimes licked them but I always had the feeling she was being left out a bit. So I got Smudge and split them into two pairs with the possible intention of trying a quartet in the future.

These pictures kinda show the sort of thing that happened.

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Although in this they look completely at home together...

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I think it's just that Mischa and Mini have SUCH a strong bond that she was never going to totally integrate with them.
 
Schuette said:
I think it's just that Mischa and Mini have SUCH a strong bond that she was never going to totally integrate with them.
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those photos feel like they should have sad violins playing in the background!

That's my other worry, I don't know that the bond between my two is overly strong, hence the worry of them falling out. They were bickering in the few days before I had them spayed and they do spend quite a bit of time away from each other (probably 50/50 together and apart). I notice that my lola asks my rambo for grooming quite a lot and is just ignored, I think that's why she licks me and always asks for head rubs.
 
It wasn't all bad. We had grooming as well and they would snuggle up sometimes.

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Just not like this.

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I mean I don't have loads of experience at bonding. Nutmeg is an odd character anyway, much more like the temperament of Smudge than the lops, and I guess in time the bonds between them would've deepened. Maybe if they arn't that close in the first instance an extra bun would bridge that gap? I don't know. :?
 
I've had three trios. Two of whom have been bonding pairs with an additional rabbit. The first one was bonding a boy into a very sturdy and well bonded pair of girlies. The personalities all worked so nicely. The two girls were/are pretty much two halves of the same coin, so it was more a pair than a trio, to be honest, even though 3 rabbits were bonded together.

The second was two rabbits that I had bonded only a month previously and adding another into the mix. That also worked brilliantly, but for a different reason. These three were a motley crew and one of the original pair was a former wildie, so while he used to hide away, the two girls would be poddling about together and were best friends super quick.

The other trio are three bonded together from scratch. They work well because of their different personalities and how they interact together. No one gets left out, although sometimes they take themselves away from the others, if they want to.

I don't think all bunnies can work as a trio. I have some here I would not try, because I know they would not be happy, or it would not work (namely those in pairs who are more picky about friends, or a bit funky with other rabbits). I do know of someone who did have a pair and tried to bond a third and the original pair divorced and she was left with a pair and a single, but the single was one of the ones from the original pair. that, to me, is very sad, but it does happen.

Its a hard one to decide on what to do. I would suggest looking at their personalities and habits and seeing whether you think it is best for them to be tried in a trio, if you do that and think the answer is yes, then even if it goes wrong you know you made the right decision for the bunnies, based on the knowledge you had at the time.
 
ah, mine do cuddle up together and you'll quite often see them sprawled out together in the run so maybe they're closer than I think?

I've never bonded before and while I think I have a pretty good idea of what you should do I'm finding it really difficult to evaluate their closeness and temperaments and decide if it's worth trying.

The worry is that I know I couldn't afford 4 rabbits so if it didn't work I would have no option but to rehome one of them.
 
I'm thinking then that maybe its not worth the risk? Or if you really want a trio, find a neutered buck and ask a rescue to help?
 
Sky-O said:
I don't think all bunnies can work as a trio. I have some here I would not try, because I know they would not be happy, or it would not work (namely those in pairs who are more picky about friends, or a bit funky with other rabbits). I do know of someone who did have a pair and tried to bond a third and the original pair divorced and she was left with a pair and a single, but the single was one of the ones from the original pair. that, to me, is very sad, but it does happen.

Its a hard one to decide on what to do. I would suggest looking at their personalities and habits and seeing whether you think it is best for them to be tried in a trio, if you do that and think the answer is yes, then even if it goes wrong you know you made the right decision for the bunnies, based on the knowledge you had at the time.
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that's the very worst scenario to me. That one of my girls would bond with the new guy and the other would have to be rehomed. I'm not 100% sure I want to take the risk.

Rambo doesn't seem too bothered with affection while lola seems to be wanting more so I think one of two things would happen : The new guy will be great because he'll give lola the attention she wants from another bun and rambo will be happy because she doesn't have her sister pestering her. OR. New guy will come along, lola will love him because she gets attention and rambo will end up jealous or ignored totally.

The reason I'm thinking of getting him is quite selfish really, I want a french lop and he's at a terrible breeder (I've phoned the rspca) that I just want to get him out of. There are two possibles there.
One that seemed very calm, let me hold him for ages with no fuss. Another that is in a tiny cage with another french lop and as soon as I put my hand in to stroke him he backed in to the corner and put his head down (very submissive) - I think this could be good as he probably wouldn't fight the girls but on the other hand he may feel the need to establish dominance once he's faced with smaller rabbits.

how much can you tell from their initial reactions? for instance if I put the girls in for a test meeting and one of them likes him but the other doesn't - would that be a warning sign that in the long run they may split? I know it takes time to bond, but can you tell anything from an initial meeting?

I only have until tuesday to decide and it's so much pressure!
 
To be honest, I think your priority needs to lie with the bunnies you currently have, and if there is a scenario where one of those may need to be rehomed because you have got a different rabbit, I would suggest not getting a different rabbit.

You can tell a fair deal from a 'date' although its not actually 100% reliable. We do those at the RSPCA but we always warn people that it doesn't mean they will eventually end up bonding, and if they can only have the rabbits together, we suggest they foster so that they can return the rabbit and try another, if necessary.

Also, if the boy is not neutered or recently neutered, that won't provide an accurate bunny date.

To be honest, from what you have said, I don't think its necessarily going to be appropriate to do it this way. If you want to try an additional bunny to try and give Lola what she needs, then I would suggest working with a rescue who can help, who could take back the third bunny if it went wrong (although even then there would be no guarantee that if your buns divorced, that by removing the third, that they would rebond because there is a strong possibility they would end up apart and not able to be rebonded back).
 
Sky-O said:
To be honest, I think your priority needs to lie with the bunnies you currently have, and if there is a scenario where one of those may need to be rehomed because you have got a different rabbit, I would suggest not getting a different rabbit.

You can tell a fair deal from a 'date' although its not actually 100% reliable. We do those at the RSPCA but we always warn people that it doesn't mean they will eventually end up bonding, and if they can only have the rabbits together, we suggest they foster so that they can return the rabbit and try another, if necessary.

Also, if the boy is not neutered or recently neutered, that won't provide an accurate bunny date.

To be honest, from what you have said, I don't think its necessarily going to be appropriate to do it this way. If you want to try an additional bunny to try and give Lola what she needs, then I would suggest working with a rescue who can help, who could take back the third bunny if it went wrong (although even then there would be no guarantee that if your buns divorced, that by removing the third, that they would rebond because there is a strong possibility they would end up apart and not able to be rebonded back).
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that was my original plan but the only rescue near enough is the rspca and they won't let me try to bond a third with my girls because they say trios can not work. :(

On the upside, I've conveniently just been given a pay rise so probably could afford a fourth bunny now. this just keeps getting more complicated.

thanks for your advice. I think I'll talk it over with the OH tonight as the first two are our joint pets whereas the third would be mine. You've been very helpful.
 
I think that different branches, and even people within the branches, will have different views on trios, but that can make it hard. What branch is it you are near?
 
The lady has agreed to let me spend some time seeing how well the rabbits get on but has said if we take a frenchie home and it doesn't work out she won't be able to take him back (she is a terrible breeder).

I think I'm going to do it. If there are any fights obviously I won't bring either rabbit home but if they seem to get on alright then I'm going to take the risk. Any signs of fighting or a weakening in the bond between my two and I will separate and rehome the lop.
I'm leaning toward thinking the submissive male she had there could work out alright. I know I could just be being mindlessly optimistic.
the downside is that they haven't been neutered but I think that could only produce a more negative date rather than a more positive one, right?

would it be alright to do the introductions in the girls run if I take it with me or should I get a totally new one?
 
I am in the same dilemma at the moment, due to moving house and adopting a new bunny I now have 3 singles two bucks and a doe, I am contemplating bonding them as a threesome so will watch this thread for any tips ! I would in answer to your question suggest and just through what I've read rather than experienced that if you can make everything neutral to all the bunnies then it would be better even the run.:wave:
 
What happens if you can't rebond your girls? Also, is the boy going to be neutered and have no hormones by the time you date them?

The more neutral the better, definitely.

I have found that good runs for bonding are the ones you can buy at pets at home, like made up of metal panels (sometimes called puppy pens, but sometimes called other things too). They are often hexagonal, so no bunny can get stuck in or feel or be boxed in a corner. Those are also super easy to transport too.
 
Sky-O said:
What happens if you can't rebond your girls? Also, is the boy going to be neutered and have no hormones by the time you date them?

The more neutral the better, definitely.

I have found that good runs for bonding are the ones you can buy at pets at home, like made up of metal panels (sometimes called puppy pens, but sometimes called other things too). They are often hexagonal, so no bunny can get stuck in or feel or be boxed in a corner. Those are also super easy to transport too.
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Yes I agree with this, I have 4 now and they all connect together to make a massive area if wanted, be careful though when I went to PAH to get my latest 2 pens they pointed me in the direction of the puppy pens and they are different to the rabbit play pens, the panels are welded together and there are no stakes to push into the earth, the rabbit ones all clip together using the metal rods/stakes which push into the earth aswell, they are the same price as the puppy ones aswell, also with the rabbit ones you get a net for the top.;)
 
Sky-O said:
What happens if you can't rebond your girls? Also, is the boy going to be neutered and have no hormones by the time you date them?
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No, he'll be in tact. but surely it would only be worse as a result of hormones? I wouldn't have thought I'd have a more positive reaction, would I?

how does a bond breaking work? is it very sudden? From what I've read of other peoples experiences once they've all bonded the original pair grow apart gradually. I'd aim to keep an eye on them and separate at the first signs or anything not being right between the established two. Could they break up after separating the lop in that instance?
I suppose I'm jumping the gun here, is it possible for the bond to break just in a short (15 mins) introduction?

If the girls broke up and couldn't be rebonded we'd split the shed in to two halves and have two pairs (thank you pay rise!), each with a run off the side.

The more neutral the better, definitely.

I have found that good runs for bonding are the ones you can buy at pets at home, like made up of metal panels (sometimes called puppy pens, but sometimes called other things too). They are often hexagonal, so no bunny can get stuck in or feel or be boxed in a corner. Those are also super easy to transport too.
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I think that's what I'll get if I try it. thanks.

I don't mean to come accross as dismissive of your concerns, obviously they're my concerns too! I've just heard of many people successfully bonding groups and not many where the original two have split and all other advice has been to try an introduction and see what happens.
 
Don't worry about dismissing me, tis fine.

I think maybe the issue, in my eyes, is not so much that you want a trio (personally, I prefer trios and with the right trio would champion them) more what may happen if they don't bond (such as a bunny being rehomed). If you can definitely emotionally cope with four rabbits, and financially do that, then a lot of these concerns ease somewhat because you won't be 'turfing out' an older bunny in 'favour' of a new bunny. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but that is how it would look if that did happen and a new bunny bonded with one of your current two and the other was left alone and was then rehomed. Especially when you admit its a selfish want, as opposed to gaining a third because you think that is best for the bunnies involved.

Bonds can break instantly because rabbits can and do fight instantly, and they can turn on each other too. Likely? I don't know, but a definite possibility.

Hormones can actually mask the real rabbit and the real personality. I have come across a good few pairs where it was a spayed female and an unnuetered male and when the male was neutered, they fought, because when he had hormones he was dominant due to all the mounting (although obviously that in itself could cause fights obviously, with the harassment aspect of it), but when his hormones started to fade, he started to act less dominant, so then the girlie started to literally fight for dominance. I know of one pair who had to be separated after that, the girl was really ill with the stress of it all, and the boy was torn to shreds (because that was a more gradual thing than instant fighting).

If you do go ahead, then its definitely great you had this thread because you will have had to have thought it all through, and I do hope that it does work, because, like I say, I personally prefer trios, for a variety of reasons.


ETA- sorry, that first paragraph may have come out as more offensive than it was intended, because it wasn't intended to be offensive at all. Basically, all I'm saying is, if you have somewhere to keep him regardless then a lot of these points are non issues because its not dependent on bonding, but if there is a risk of one (but particularly one of your current bunnies) being rehomed then that, in my eyes is a different situation. Does that make sense?

Please don't hate me!
 
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Sky-O said:
Don't worry about dismissing me, tis fine.

I think maybe the issue, in my eyes, is not so much that you want a trio (personally, I prefer trios and with the right trio would champion them) more what may happen if they don't bond (such as a bunny being rehomed). If you can definitely emotionally cope with four rabbits, and financially do that, then a lot of these concerns ease somewhat because you won't be 'turfing out' an older bunny in 'favour' of a new bunny. I'm not saying that's what you are doing, but that is how it would look if that did happen and a new bunny bonded with one of your current two and the other was left alone and was then rehomed. Especially when you admit its a selfish want, as opposed to gaining a third because you think that is best for the bunnies involved.

Bonds can break instantly because rabbits can and do fight instantly, and they can turn on each other too. Likely? I don't know, but a definite possibility.

Hormones can actually mask the real rabbit and the real personality. I have come across a good few pairs where it was a spayed female and an unnuetered male and when the male was neutered, they fought, because when he had hormones he was dominant due to all the mounting (although obviously that in itself could cause fights obviously, with the harassment aspect of it), but when his hormones started to fade, he started to act less dominant, so then the girlie started to literally fight for dominance. I know of one pair who had to be separated after that, the girl was really ill with the stress of it all, and the boy was torn to shreds (because that was a more gradual thing than instant fighting).

If you do go ahead, then its definitely great you had this thread because you will have had to have thought it all through, and I do hope that it does work, because, like I say, I personally prefer trios, for a variety of reasons.


ETA- sorry, that first paragraph may have come out as more offensive than it was intended, because it wasn't intended to be offensive at all. Basically, all I'm saying is, if you have somewhere to keep him regardless then a lot of these points are non issues because its not dependent on bonding, but if there is a risk of one (but particularly one of your current bunnies) being rehomed then that, in my eyes is a different situation. Does that make sense?

Please don't hate me!
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I don't hate you, I'm honestly finding this very helpful, I started the thread to make sure I was considering absolutely everything as I do want to do what's best for my rabbits - you're being a great help!
Your main concern of a rabbit being rehomed is, and always has been, my main concern.
However, the conditions these rabbits are in is appalling and I have phoned the rspca who I believe will take them away from her so he's already really a rabbit that needs rehoming. If it doesn't work because he won't integrate I will rehome him and nothing has really changed.
If it doesn't work because my two divorce then I will find a way to keep four as two pairs (the pay rise my boss announced today will obviously be a great help).

Originally the want for a new rabbit was for lolas benefit, this particular french lop is where I think I'm being selfish as he's the rabbit I would like.
He is very submissive at the moment but I think that could be the fact he's in a tiny indoor cage with another french lop. The other option is another male, I couldn't tell much about his personality from the meeting I had with him but he seemed very calm with me and unphased by handling.
They are both (apparently) 3 months old, if the initial meeting went well and I bought one home they would be in adjacent runs until I have him neutered and move house so 1-2 months before being put in to a new shed together.

The girls were bickering in the few days before we had them spayed and we did consider separating them, but after the spay they were absolutely fine with each other so I think this is a good sign regarding the issue of them re bonding should the bond break.

I was hoping that the car journey there and the car journey home again would help ensure their bond was kept, but I suppose this could also mean they aren't their usual selves when introduced to the new rabbit.
 
I was so scared to open your reply then, but I'm relieved I said what I did because what you said makes complete sense. So thank you for explaining that to me. I understand far more now where you are coming from (especially with regards to your plans for if you did bring him home).

I can definitely understand why you would want a friend that can be a more suitable friend for Lola nd can meet her needs better. Its also great that you wouldn't rehome one of your girls.

If you got one of these chaps and it didn't work, but you still wanted a trio, then it may be a rescue further away could help you do the bonding as well as choosing one of their males for you.

It sounds like you have thought it through and have looked at all possibilities and whatever you decide, I wish you luck and hope that you end up with happy (or happier) bunnies at the end of it :)
 
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