Comfrey : UD post 47 still not good - don't know what to do

Comfrey recovered really really well and quickly from Eednesdays tooth op (just a quick burr under GA). He was eating and pooing etc so we put him back outside yesterday morning.

BUT this morning he had dreadful diarrhoea (runny) and his tummy is swollen.

We think that he has reacted badly to the Septrin they gave him (he had a little mouth ulcer due to the tooth spurs). Unfortunately we didn't realise until after we had given him this mornings meds.

Anyway we took him to the vet who said to stop the septrin as they think he has reacted badly to it; and they gave him some fibreplex and a critical care feed and bunpronorphine (not sure why they did the latter). They said his stomach wasn't gassy just a bit swollen.

Since then (that was 10.00am - its 2pm now) he has not eaten or pood or peed or anything. And I think his stomach is getting bigger - in fact I am convinced it is bigger. Of course the bup. has slowed him down but even so I am concerned.

Do you think I can give Infacol???? (trouble is its sweet and he is not meant to have sweet things).

He is meant to stick to hay (which he never ever eats) and greens - which he never eats after an op. and pellets - which he usually eats but won't eat today. In fact he won't eat anything today.

I am really really worried about him. he is just sitting there and I am sure his tum is bigger and harder.

Would normally give infacol but not sure of its impact on his gut flora which has obviously been badly affected by the septrin. Just wish we had noticed before giving this mornings dose

Infacol shouldn't affect his gut flora at all as far as i'm aware but i'm worried about his lack of eating and distended belly. I think he needs to go back to the vet to be honest - they may need to reexamine to check for impaction/obstruction and 'possibly' relieve any gas build up if he is obstructed.
The vetergesic should be helping with any pain but it also 'slows' the gut down which won't help him empty his stomach and move his guts along. He may benefit from some metacam as well and I would want him given some sub-cut fluids to rehydrate him properly, as this should also help 'shift' any blockage/impaction in his gut.

You may want to try some oral fluids in the meantime - just a little to see how he goes, it may help.

ETA tummy rubs 'might' help him pass the gas.
If he is not obstructed some metclopramide may also be in order. But that is up to your vet based on his presentation.
Lots and lots of vibes for Comfrey :wave:

Oh blimey

Personally I would not give Infacol. I would probably contact the Vet again

Some Buscopan may help re the bloating and he could probably do with some fluid therapy too.

Is he mainting his body temperature. Buprenorph' can lower the BP so he may be chilled.

Poor lad I really hope he recovers very soon.

Thank you - forgot to mention that he has had subcuts.


An obstruction doesn't seem likely given that he has had diarrhoea does it? unless it became obstructed after that.


He also had some metacam first thing as part of his 'normal' post op meds before we discovered the diarrhoea. (though low dose).

We will go back this eve if no improvement but thought of just trying the infacol if it wouldn't make things worse??

we have him inside on hot water bottle at present.

Sorry - writing as Jacks Jane posted - ok will forget the infacol.

will see how he is in an hour or so and see if can get another vets appt. Unfortunately my rabbit vet away.

I would be inclined to give him some infacol if it were me as it is pretty inert stuff, but that's just me and i'm not suggesting you do, just saying what I would do.
I hope he feels better soon x

went to vet again - vet gave some metaclopromoide and some more subcuts (2nd lot today) and a syringe feed.

Vet confirmed pockets of gas and said I could use infacol (which she hasn't used before).

We've now been home an hour and chased him round the garden a bit (always makes me feel so cruel) and given infacol and rubbed tum, and sat him on hot water bottle etc etc - but other than some loud gurgles in his tum (which are new - before the infacol it was all silent in there) there is 'no change'

I feel so sorry for him - poor soul sailed through his tooth op. and all the pain in his teeth last week, and it was the stupid septrin that triggered all this. I don't know what to do now as he won't eat or drink and hasn't pood for at least 10 hours.

How often do you think I can give the infacol??

I was thinking I would also give another 0.2 metacam later this eve - he had 0.2 this morning and bupronorphine but I find metacam does often help more and there is plenty of 'allowance' in his dose. he weighs about 2.2k.

He's really not happy.

Wish we hadn't given him more septrin this morning before we realised.

Please don't blame yourself you were trying to help him. Anyway, I half suspect this could have been caused by all the stress etc he's also recently been through - delayed stress reaction - the Septrin may not have been the primary cause, he could already have been in ileus, they hide it well.

I would personally give him the rest of his dose of metacam if you are allowed to do this later - I find it works better overall than the vetergesic - particularly where there is gut slowdown. It depends on the bun, Poppy tolerates it well, Nino does not and goes out for the count and then I can't keep him eating which is not ideal so prefer to tailor the vetergesic off after the acute phase of extreme pain.

I would personally, if it were my bun, be giving infacol every couple of hours at the moment, say 2-4 hours, and reduce it as things improve. I would also accompany this with syringe feeds and oral fluids - so basically, pick bunny up, warm them up and tummy rubs, then infacol and other medicines if having (fibreplex once bun starts producing droppings helps) I would certainly be giving Zantac (ranitidine) alongside the metclopramide - I find the two together works very well. After medicines I proceed with syringe feeds and oral fluids, then put bunny down to run around or encourage to do so, then leave to rest somewhere dark and warm and repeat the whole thing about 3 hours later. Hope that helps :wave:

ETA I would also be tempting with solid foods during the syringe feed to see if any interest shown at any stage. We find apple leaves and j. artichoke leaves good here but I know they are over now, i'm sure you have plenty of goodies to hand in your garden though, Poppy went mad for rosemary last time she was like this. Sorry if my post came across patronising - I know you've been through this many times and are more experienced than I nursing sick buns, what with Viola Rose....was just hoping that by talking through what I do it might help you to remember

however many times one has done it - as soon as your own bun is ill you just fall apart and look to others for advice!! Which you have given wonderfully!!

I don't think we have any Zantac at all in the house - so it will be tomorrow morning before I can get that one - in fact don't recall my vet ever giving it (will check my bunny medicine box).

I think he is farting little noisless farts - but if it is him (and there is only him and me in the room - and its not me) they don't smell like bunny farts they smells like dog poo.

he keeps laying down and his tummy looks huge - its all gurgly as well.

Hav ejust given more infacol, a syringe feed, 0.2 metacam, - later will give his other dose of metaclop. . . will go and look for some Zantac but really don't think we have it.

parsnipbun said:

however many times one has done it - as soon as your own bun is ill you just fall apart and look to others for advice!! Which you have given wonderfully!!

I don't think we have any Zantac at all in the house - so it will be tomorrow morning before I can get that one - in fact don't recall my vet ever giving it (will check my bunny medicine box).

I think he is farting little noisless farts - but if it is him (and there is only him and me in the room - and its not me) they don't smell like bunny farts they smells like dog poo.

he keeps laying down and his tummy looks huge - its all gurgly as well.

Hav ejust given more infacol, a syringe feed, 0.2 metacam, - later will give his other dose of metaclop. . . will go and look for some Zantac but really don't think we have it.

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Just replied to your PM but having seen here that his abdomen is still distended I would be really anxious about giving more Metoclop :?

Jack's-Jane said:

Just replied to your PM but having seen here that his abdomen is still distended I would be really anxious about giving more Metoclop :?

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I agree with Jane. Should only be given if vet as certain as can be that no total obstruction.

I've nothing to add to the medical advice.
I'm sure you know the use of Dill & Fennel to help gassy bunnies (The active ingredient of Gripe water is dill seed oil)
I'm sure you also know that raspberry leaves & blackberry leaves & also any remaining hawthorn, sloe, apple leaves, will give good fiber to encourage gut motility for a bun that won't eat hay.

The gurgling is a sign of excess gas on the move in the GI tract. It's important to get it out because gaseous distention of the gut is both very painful & prevents the gut from contracting properly. So it's good if Damson is passing wind.
There is also a useful maneuver of supporting the rabbit's back & lifting the hind quarters off the table about 2" to help them pass wind. Your vet may show you how to do this.

Both the wind & the 1st. poops after "stasis" are often very smelly. It's caused by overgrowth of adverse bacteria & was probably the original cause of the stasis given that Comfrey had diarrhoea.
I just hope that my explanation of the symptoms helps to relieve your worry a little.

We use Ranitidine (Zantac) both to reduce gastric acidity & improve lower gut motility for Thumper, as well as metaclopramide (maxlon) which only improves upper GI tract motility. I am in total agreement with pretty lupin that maxolon should not be used unless the rabbit has been examined by a vet to exclude "intraluminal obstruction". A loop of bowel distended with gas can behave as an obstruction, because the bowel is too stretched to propel the contents forward. Similarly toxins from adverse bacteria can slowdown the lower gut hence the use of Zantac.

I shall be thinking of you tonight, & hoping for a speedy recovery for your rabbit.

she did not xray to check for obstruction as was concerned about the fact that he had been under GA only 2 days ago - and she is not the vet who will xray without putting them under.

Although his tummy is very gurgly and quite large it is not HUGE in the way that Willows was when she had a blockage. - but it is big. The distensions seem to me quite high up and I can definitely feel two areas.

I can actually see air pockets moving around.

Its dark now so we cant make him run round the garden anymore - or up and down our stairs indoors as they are very slippy and painted wood.

I am at my wits end.

He has moved from being hunched to laying out very long - as though to try and ease it.

parsnipbun said:

she did not xray to check for obstruction as was concerned about the fact that he had been under GA only 2 days ago - and she is not the vet who will xray without putting them under.

Although his tummy is very gurgly and quite large it is not HUGE in the way that Willows was when she had a blockage. - but it is big. The distensions seem to me quite high up and I can definitely feel two areas.

I can actually see air pockets moving around.

Its dark now so we cant make him run round the garden anymore - or up and down our stairs indoors as they are very slippy and painted wood.

I am at my wits end.

He has moved from being hunched to laying out very long - as though to try and ease it.

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You must be very worried. We are all thinking of you.

All I can suggest is that if he doesn't mind handling then perhaps lie him across your tummy on a hot water bottle wrapped in a towel - we do this with Nino. Poppy is nervous so we leave her well alone except for medication and feeding. I would definitely try oral fluids - this was a turning point for Poppy when she was impacted - the sub-cuts were simply not enough despite three lots in under 24 hours, and for some reason hydrating her mouth encouraged her to eat again voluntarily, although with great effort on our part, it did improve things. It may just be a waiting game as the pain meds take effect and things start to move along in the gut. I would be patient for now and let the meds and food and fluids given do their thing.
My vets have never done Xrays for obstruction - but then we've only ever presented at emergency clinics in the middle of the night. I'm not sure my reg vets do it either. Always a bit risky, but total obstructions are rare so try not to worry. Obviously if he becomes any more distended then you might need something done more urgently. Meanwhile I would sit tight and just keep him warm, hydrated and tummy rubs balanced with peace and quiet and a dark room. Tons of vibes from me and my buns x

It's an excellent sign that the air pockets are on the move. You are so right that they stretch out to try to pass the wind. You're doing fine.
It's good that she isn't hugely distended too.
Oh dear in trying to reduce your worries, I seem to have added to them!

well - comfrey always eats pellets - but will sometimes eat his greens but no Hay as he was from rescue and had been neglected with dental problems before that so associates hay and fibrous green stuff with pain.

the gurgling and popping sounds are now very loud.

will get partner to go out for gripe water

have done all the lying across lap with water bottle bit - hes back hunched now - will get him out and stretch him again.

don't know whether to give metaclop or not at midnight when next dose due.

if I could get hold of some over the counter paediatric zantac is that the same as bunny zantac???

We use Zantac 15mg/ml - dose for a 3 kilo bunny is 0.9ml.
It used to be a prescription only medicine, but things have changed a lot since I retired.
If Comfrey is passing wind there is reasonable gut motility there.

may i ask what you retired from?

I have always given metclopramide, even if slightly gassy still, provided the vet who examined felt happy no obvious obstruction. But then i'm with my buns throughout the day and only have two, so only two lots of faecal output to monitor and am therefore reasonably confident that there was not time for a huge obstruction to build up, we also groom both buns daily so are reasonably confident no excessive fur ingestion. However I do appreciate there are other primary causes for total obstruction. I obviously only do it at my vets advice but have found, and this is just my experience, that the metclopramide does help to empty the stomach and push things along. However, many others would exercise extreme caution and with very good reason. I suppose it's a decision we have to make ourselves at the end of the day. I don't think there is necessarily any right or wrong answer, without an Xray it is always guesswork.
The last two times we had this problem our vet was able to locate the faecal impaction by examination and was able to assess it breaking up with the medicines, so with this in mind the metclopramide was sensible. Sorry if i'm confusing the issue for you. I think if you have doubts and he is very bloated then leave it out.
Will be thinking of you throughout the evening. Can I recommend herbal tea for oral fluids - very helpful it has been here. Twinings fennel and nettle or camomile and spearmint are very good. Good luck x

I am really quite concerned that you are describing a bloated stomach as opposed to the intestines :?

I am wondering if there is an obstruction at the pylorus, the outlet from the stomach to the intestines.

I would not give any more syringe feeds until this possibility has been excluded. I would definately not give Metoclopromide
I would just give small amounts of fluids. If the gas is in the stomach then giving Infacol/Gripe Water wont help. The gas has to be able to find an outlet, if the pylorus is obstructed there's no-where for the gas to go-Rabbits cant burp.

My advice would be warmth, analgesia and fluids til you can get him back to the Vet. I do hope he starts to show signs of recovery overnight.

ETA- Did the Vet mention that any of his molars appeared loose ?