Please help, Daisy's ill U/D Daisy's loads better!

Last night before I went to bed Daisy seemed very quiet, still eating but just sitting still and looking a bit listless, we thought she was tired after a day of running about - she discovered the stairs for the first time.

This morning when I came downstairs and opened her hutch I found her just sitting with her head cocked to one side and not moving - she normally jumps out and runs round my feet - I stroked her and gave her a bowl of her pellets which she didn't even look at.

Her litter tray had lots of very soft, dark poos - v different to her usual big, golden ones. She didn't seem to be wet underneath.

She hopped in circles twice while I was sat with her.

My o/h has taken her to the vets now. I wrote down to ask for metacam and panacur in case its EC (after reading on here about treatments).

Does she have EC? Or could it be someonething else?

There were a lot of gurgling noises coming from her guts this morning too - louder than I've ever heard before.

I'm so scared that I'll lose her - she's only 18 weeks old and I lost her brother very suddenly only 48 hrs after he arrived - he seemd fine when we went ot bed on day two, but had gone when we got up in morning.

She's only been here 2 weeks, and I gave her a 9 day course of panacur when she arrived, plus 5 days on bio-lapis.

It's more likely to be an inner ear infection than EC. The vet will probably put her on a course of antibiotics.

Where did you get her from? It sounds like they either have a pasteurella or EC problem...definitely inform them what has happened to your buns

To be on the safe side I'd want her treated for both infection and EC.
Hopefully this is what your Vet will do
I agree that you should definately inform the person you obtained the Buns from as there is clearly a problem

Please keep us updated

xx

no advice sorry but hope she will be ok

back from vets

Just back from the vets. Daisy has a high temperature - 103/105 (o/h can't remember which)

She's been given an injection of antibiotics plus pain relief injection - o/h thinks metacam.

She's also got 2.5% Baytril liquid to start from tomorrow, and panacur paste from today. Plus 2 sachets critical care if she doesn't eat much on her own.

No diagnosis as such - vet said infection of some kind, plus he's very concerned re: her high temp and priority is lowering it and getting her eating - he said her stomach felt quite empty.

Daisy is eating now (probably result of injections?)

Appt booked for Monday am to check her temperature etc.

Any advice / ideas on what this could be?

Also - ideas for lowering her temp - vet suggested wet cloth draped over her - is this a good idea?

I would give her something cool as an option, but not force it on her, so a cool blanket, or a bottle filled with cool/cold water, things like that.

I would think maybe Baytril is too conservative for an inner ear infection. It's pretty much ineffective against most things now after being over used, so she may need something stronger.

I hope she starts to feel better soon What a rough start you have had with this pair.

I have a Bun who has just recovered from a severe ear infection and she responded really well to Baytril
Your Vet seems to have covered all bases which is great as is the fact that Daisy is eating a little. I suspect the Metacam has helped control the pain of earache. You may find that she will need Metacam daily until the infection is under control. Also, with sever otitis media the Baytril may need to be given every 12 hours for the first 3-4 days rather than every 24 hours, but do discuss this with your Vet first.
If Daisy goes off her food more tomorrow it is likely to be due to the fact she needs more pain relief. I'd get this sorted out today if your Vet is closed tomorrow as it will at least save you a hefty Out-of-Hours Fee.

To get her temp down just put some cool water(not icy cold) on her ears and at the back of her neck. Repeat this as necessary but keep her out of direct draughts.

Keep an eye on her poo output too. A poorly Bun often has a reduced gut motility. So try to keep her eating, little and often. Encourage her to drink too. My Buns like warm Camomile and Mint Tea when they are poorly. Some prefer Blackberry Leaf Tea though !!

Sending get well vibes for her

xx

Thanks for replies.

Jane- have just missed vets as they shut at 12.00 on a saturday and answer machine is now on. I have a bottle of metacam opened less than three months ago from when my cat had cystitis. Can Daisy have some of this tomorrow if she's not eating? It's 0.5 mg/ml oral suspension for cats.

I've just felt her ears - one is boiling hot, the other is cool. The hot one is down and the normal one up, I guess this confirms ear infection?

Daisy has eaten a few pellets and also some critical care mix - a spoonful - and has done a few poos. They're smaller and darker than usual, but at there are about twenty of them.

She's had no water yet, I've tried tempting her with bio-lapis in her water (she loved it when first here), but no interest today. Should I syringe some into her mouth or wait for her to drink? I'll get her some herbal tea now - I've just had visitors staying and now out of peppermint and camomile tea, but I have rose and vanilla, so will make a very weak one for her.

I hate this - I feel so useless and can't stand seeing her looking so unlike her usual self, but I'm trying to stay calm so Daisy doesn't pick up on my distress.

giantbunnymummy said:

Thanks for replies.

Jane- have just missed vets as they shut at 12.00 on a saturday and answer machine is now on. I have a bottle of metacam opened less than three months ago from when my cat had cystitis. Can Daisy have some of this tomorrow if she's not eating? It's 0.5 mg/ml oral suspension for cats.

I've just felt her ears - one is boiling hot, the other is cool. The hot one is down and the normal one up, I guess this confirms ear infection?

Daisy has eaten a few pellets and also some critical care mix - a spoonful - and has done a few poos. They're smaller and darker than usual, but at there are about twenty of them.

She's had no water yet, I've tried tempting her with bio-lapis in her water (she loved it when first here), but no interest today. Should I syringe some into her mouth or wait for her to drink? I'll get her some herbal tea now - I've just had visitors staying and now out of peppermint and camomile tea, but I have rose and vanilla, so will make a very weak one for her.

I hate this - I feel so useless and can't stand seeing her looking so unlike her usual self, but I'm trying to stay calm so Daisy doesn't pick up on my distress.

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As Metacam is a POM I cannot legally tell you to administer it to Daisy tomorrow. But if she were my Rabbit I would do so as not only will it help with the pain but it should also act as an antipyretic.
Keeping her guts going is the most important thing so pain control is essential. A Bun in pain will have reduced gut motility and will become anorexic.

If she is not stressed by syringed fluids then I'd give her about 10-20ml every 2 hours. But if she gets distressed trying to force the issue will be counterproductive.

Is she used to fresh Veg ? If so try to get her to eat a small portion as Veg contains water which will help with her hydration.
The abx need time to kick in so dont expect her to bounce back to wellness straight away. An important thing you can do for her is offer supportive care (food/fluids/cooling her down), monitor her gut motility and offer TLC whilst the meds do their work

xx

Thanks Jane.

Daisy's now had quite a few sips of the warm herbal tea - just sent o/h out for more supplies so can try her on camomile and/or peppermint later. She's also had a couple of pieces of cabbage leaf and a few more pellets, and we have quite a few more poos.

She seems to like me sitting with her, so I've been staying close but trying not to crowd her. She's lying down now on cold laminate floor - heating is off in here - so I'm giving her some space. She's never flopped out before so I know she must feel poorly.

I've used a cool, damp jay cloth to cool down the back of her head and ears, and she seems not to mind keeping it on for a few mins at a time - it's boiling when I take it off her though.

I'll definitely give her some metacam tomorrow if she needs it as the bottle says it's fine if used within six months of opening.

In terms of dosage is 0.05mg per kg of weight ok (same as with cats)? I understand about not giving official advice as it's prescription med, but I think as you've shown more sense than lots of vets from many threads i've read, i'll happily go with the treatment you'd give your own buns!

Thanks so much for support and advice.

giantbunnymummy said:

Thanks Jane.

Daisy's now had quite a few sips of the warm herbal tea - just sent o/h out for more supplies so can try her on camomile and/or peppermint later. She's also had a couple of pieces of cabbage leaf and a few more pellets, and we have quite a few more poos.

She seems to like me sitting with her, so I've been staying close but trying not to crowd her. She's lying down now on cold laminate floor - heating is off in here - so I'm giving her some space. She's never flopped out before so I know she must feel poorly.

I've used a cool, damp jay cloth to cool down the back of her head and ears, and she seems not to mind keeping it on for a few mins at a time - it's boiling when I take it off her though.

I'll definitely give her some metacam tomorrow if she needs it as the bottle says it's fine if used within six months of opening.

In terms of dosage is 0.05mg per kg of weight ok (same as with cats)? I understand about not giving official advice as it's prescription med, but I think as you've shown more sense than lots of vets from many threads i've read, i'll happily go with the treatment you'd give your own buns!

Thanks so much for support and advice.

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My Vet has told me that the Maximum dose of Metacam a Bun can have is now considered to be 0.6mg/kg/24 hours. It used to be much lower (0.2mg/kg/24 hours) but this was found to be inadequate in many cases.
My Vet generally advises giving the high dose for the first 48 hours and then reducing it. That is what we have done with the Bun I have (Bernie) who has just recovered from a really nastey ear infection. Berine was also on Ranitidine, an anti GI Ulcer med as one of the possible side effects of longterm use of Metacam is GI ulceration. This risk increases with high doses of Metacam and if the Bun is not eating much.

I hope that once Daisy has had 48 hours on abx she will start to feel much better and that the full course will get her completely well

giantbunnymummy said:

In terms of dosage is 0.05mg per kg of weight ok (same as with cats)? I understand about not giving official advice as it's prescription med, but I think as you've shown more sense than lots of vets from many threads i've read, i'll happily go with the treatment you'd give your own buns!

Thanks so much for support and advice.

Click to expand...

We use the dog dosage as the cat dosage is very light.

The medical guideline for the dog's dosage is:

dosage (in ml) = weight in KG x 0.1 / 1.5

w/ 1.5 mg/ml= the concentration for dog's dosage

if your vet gives you the cat's concentration, then it's lighter as the concentration is less than 1.5 mg/ml

How is Daisy doing this morning ?

Ive only just seen this.How is Daisy this morning.I really hope she is starting to feel better,sending healing vibes your way

Aw, poor little Daisy

I hope she feels better soon.

What pellets/museli do you feed her?
Does she get plenty of hay?
I can't really comment on the ear infection, i wouldn't know about that.

Hi all,

Daisy seems much better today. She's eating loads of hay, had all her pellets (A&P - breeder and grower), plus a bit of cabbage. She's pooing fine too

BUT, I'm still quite concerned about a few things:
1)Baytril - could she be having side effects?

*She's got a lame front foot - o/h convinced it started before first vets appt yesterday and first baytril dose, but i'm not at all sure.

*She keeps making these little jerky movements forwards - often when she's feeling very hot. We thought maybe like hiccups, but without any noise.

2) Last night (I slept in lounge and got up every couple of hrs to check her) she left loads of caecotrophs around the floor - never happened before - and her poos were soft and v dark

3) She was burning up last night and I kept applying a cold, damp jay cloth to her ears and neck, which eventually seemed to cool her, but I noticed that she didn't seem to want to/able to move very much, especially her head

(I was v close to calling emergency vet at 3am - she was flopped out, boiling, surrounded by caecotrophs - but I left her another half an hour, and she perked up and ate some hay)

Anyway, vets appointment first thing tomorrow - but if anyone has ideas/things i should ask for or mention, advice much appreciated!

I'm one v stressed out/sleep deprived bunny mummy!!!

UPDATED: 1 hr 30 mins after evening baytril Daisy's producing soft, smelly poos and mucus - should i worry?

Have you got any probiotics such as Bio Lapis, Avipro or Fibreplex ? If not I would ask the Vet for some tomorrow to give Daisy whilst she is on the abx.

The Panacur may also be contributing to her GI disturbance as Panacur also treats intestinal worms. She is probabaly not eating her caecotrophs because they now taste yucky due to the meds she is on.

The fact that she is eating well is great news Its early days but I would remain optomistic that the treatment will be successful

Thanks Jane.

She's on bio-lapis - started giving it to her yesterday morning - and she's drank quite a bit today.

Until a little while ago she was doing brilliantly, but now as I said, the soft poos are back. She's sitting in her bed again too and looking a bit less happy.

Is it normal / ok to see this sort of side effect from abx?

:wave:hope she is ok!!!!vibes and hugs to her and you!!!:wave: