Shes happy but I think she needs to be put to sleep (paralysis/EC?)

Honey was six years old this year in March and is a rex but she has lost quite a bit of weight so shes very light, I think shes about 2kg-something. She lives in a hutch and run with two other rabbits.

She has been having problems with her back legs for a while, she started dragging them behind her every so often and then began to drag them constantly. She was on Panacur but only for 9 days, but she doesn't have the wet legs or head tilt like they usually do with EC. She was on metacam from 10th March 2008 but it stopped being effective even at the maximum dose as dosed by the vet. The metacam was stopped and I picked up some Rimadyl on 21st May, the vet said to give it only when there were symptoms ie when she was dragging her legs. Shes been on that since 22th May so today is day 17. She needed it about every two days, so had some morning of 22nd May, evening of 24th, morning of 26th, etc. I only gave it to her when she was dragging her legs.

The vet also said I should also try some Cosequin cat which has glucosamine and chondroitin in it and is used for cats with arthritis. I got some of that online by advice from the vet and she was first given some on the morning of the 4th June with Rimadyl because she was dragging her legs, and also morning of 5th June along with more Rimadyl because she was still dragging her legs and shouldn't have been as she'd had Rimadyl the morning before. Yesterday morning (6th June) she was still dragging her feet so I stopped the Cosequin thinking it had something to do with it.

She was still dragging her legs yesterday evening so I gave her more Rimadyl. This morning I have had to give her yet more Rimadyl, and also will probably give some this evening as she is still dragging her legs.

I'm thinking that she will need to be put to sleep, the only trouble is she is eating fine and is very bright. But she is dragging her legs, she can't wash her face and I don't think she is able to eat her caecotrophs direct from her bum. I watched her eat some poo today but it was the normal rabbit poo and not a caecotroph. Also yesterday I saw she seemed to want to scratch her ear, she was tilting her head towards it but couldn't move her leg so I went and wiped out the dead skin from her ears, she really enjoyed it. The hutch is about 6 inches from the ground and so they usually have to jump up it but today I watched her struggle to pull herself up it. She still moves her legs but once her hips have fallen sideways she finds it very difficult to get her back-side to sit properly again, when I saw her getting into the hutch it was a struggle. She seems restless, the other two were just sat munching on hay but Honey was eating then turning around and kept moving around then eating a little bit more.

The vet has never actually seen Honey drag her legs as the last time she went she acted as though she was fine. I have videos on my phone now to show the vet but I think if I take her to the vets with the intention of having her put to sleep I won't be able to contain myself long enough to show the vet that she is dragging her legs when at home. I can't stand the thought of taking her to the vet and then Honey acting like a normal rabbit again and getting turned away from the vets for having a healthy animal.

Is there anything more I can do, or do I have to persuade my vet to kill my seemingly healthy rabbit?

I'm sure I remember reading of a rabbit with similar symptoms (i.e. only hind leg problems) & the woman's husband making some "wheels" - sort of like a bunny wheelchair - so that the bun could move itself about.

I can't remember where though; so I might have dreamt it! :lol:

If Honey doesn't seem too distressed by her condition, then personally, I'd start off with a full 28 day course of wormer before I went down the 'pts' road. 9 days treatment isn't enough to treat EC symptoms, even though she's only displaying one symptom. If it were me, I'd have to eliminate ALL possible causes before having her pts, plus I'd have to know that she was distressed by her symptoms, because animals have a wonderful way of just 'getting on with it' - it's us that feel sorry for them. If I didn't do this, I'd always be thinking 'what if?'.

Yep I've seen the bunny wheelchairs before

I've read that even after worming it doesn't cure the paralysis. She does feel some pain in her legs, particularly her hocks and ankles as the vet felt it when she was examining her. I move Honey's legs around for her daily, like physio, and she definitely feels pain in her right ankle. Her right leg felt more stiff than the other one this morning and I'm not sure if its my imagination but it doesn't feel as strong as the left leg. Does EC actually cause pain in the legs? I thought it was because of pressure in the spine from inflammation?

You make sense by saying it is us who feel sorry for them, it is difficult for me because everyone who sees her says it is cruel and I'm sure the neighbours must wonder why she hasn't been put to sleep. Its just me and the vet who know how she is being treated and that we think it is worth it, but since the Rimadyl isn't working now I don't know if it is worth it.

Neesh, this is exactly what I went through with Stripes.

Personally I'd try for a longer course of Panacur, is she progressively getting worse or you just think she's suffering?

I found this site a great help when I was struggling with keeping Stripes mobile

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/bun_bun_final_column.htm

Lucky has also recently battled with EC & Hind Leg Paralysis but he's been on a 28 day course of Panacur and is almost back to normal, he was also meant to be on Metacam every day but I started him on everyday then reduced to when he absolutely needed it.

I found he was struggling to keep the weight on so he had all his medication along with Cod Liver Oil mixed into a daily dish of porridge to help keep his weight up.

Hopefully this helps you a bit, feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it or anything

Gem said:

http://homepage.mac.com/mattocks/morfz/bun_bun_final_column.htm

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Oooh, that's the one I meant!

Oh heck! the story about BunBun made me cry - what a lovely article. Just goes to show that there is hope, however bad the situation seems. Gives me hope that Honey stands a chance of getting better.

they are recommending 6 weeks of panacur now for e-c, so I'd try that before giving up on her. It doesn't reverse damage but it stops it getting worse - and e-c produces very variable symptoms, and sometimes no symptoms, so definitely it could be a cause, although with her age it might well be arthritis too. Poor girl - and it must be so hard seeing her in this state as well

If it's EC related she should be on panacur paste or another wormer now for at least 6 weeks and repeated every 6 months. Steroids may help her to regain some mobility.....

although was medacam working to begin with? that would not have any effect on EC at all as the paralysis is cause by brain damage not pain. IT might be arthritis in which case someone like Jacks Jane (when she gets her web back on and running) might be able to advise as she has lots of older bunnys. I think I've heard of people using human arthritis aids like cod liver oil & glucosamene but I wouldn't have any idea about doasage.

I would definitely try the Panacur for 6 weeks - as I have seen buns get much better control over the back legs after the 6 weeks. Also anything with glucosamine for arthritis needs 6 weeks to work as well - as its a slow build up of new bone and tissue rather than an instant 'cure'.
If it was me (and it has been!) I would make sure she can get around where she wants to, make ramps if needs be and clean her ears for her daily, and also look after her bum - then give her at least this 6 weeks and see how it goes.

foxyfaerie said:

I'm sure I remember reading of a rabbit with similar symptoms (i.e. only hind leg problems) & the woman's husband making some "wheels" - sort of like a bunny wheelchair - so that the bun could move itself about.

I can't remember where though; so I might have dreamt it! :lol:

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I have heard of that too here in the US it is very common to see dogs, cats, rabbits etc. on a wheel chair sort of thing if they have a problem with their back legs

AllForTheAnimals said:

I have heard of that too here in the US it is very common to see dogs, cats, rabbits etc. on a wheel chair sort of thing if they have a problem with their back legs

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I'd do it. I have a possible EC carrier & it's the hardest thing to leave her (and the other two) to go away for a week; if she was otherwise happy I'd be happy to help her be more mobile.

Yep the metacam worked from 10th March to about 20th May, and the Rimadyl has worked for the past 17 days too which was why I thought that it couldn't be EC.

The Cosequin Cat has glucosamine and chondroitin in it, I know you have to use it for a while before it takes effect but as I say after she was given it those two times her legs got suddenly worse so I'm wondering whether Rimadyl and Cosequin shouldn't be mixed? My vet is a small animal specialist and she seems to have a particular interest in rabbits so if she knew they were going to react she wouldn't have told me to try it. I'm not sure the Cosequin did react with the Rimadyl really because its more a supplement than a drug isn't it?

It is sad seeing her like that, I sobbed when I found her like that the first time, but now when I look at her I still just see a happy rabbit. I just worry about flystrike etc getting to her now.

I was going to get a cotton bud and put a bit of olive oil on it to wipe her ears out, I wouldn't put it in far and I thought it might encourage the other rabbits to help with the cleaning out too. Rosie likes to clean Honey's ears but doesn't usually get inside, would it be bad for her to eat it?

neeshkabeesh said:

would it be bad for her to eat it?

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Rabbits probably eat their own ear gunk; I don't see why somebuny else's would be worse?

Ear gunk :lol: I mean the olive oil sorry, would that be bad? It wouldn't be huge amounts, just would it be bad for Honey to have on her skin or for Rosie to eat it?

neeshkabeesh said:

Ear gunk :lol: I mean the olive oil sorry, would that be bad? It wouldn't be huge amounts, just would it be bad for Honey to have on her skin or for Rosie to eat it?

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As long as it's organic I can't see a problem - it's quite good for dry skin too! (I use it as a cleanser, but that's an 11+ page thread! :lol

EC causes different symptoms depend what area it effects. You won't necessarily get a head tilt - it's one possible symptom but it won't appear any time.

It's quite possible she could have a touch of arthritis exacerbating the problem or the pain and part of the weekness could be from muscle wastage where she hasn't been using her limbs.

I'd go for a full course of pancur and ask the vet to show you some gentle exercises you can do to improve her muscle tone in her legs.

Also look at changes you can make to her environment for example vet bed on the floor, removing any changes in height/steps. Is she continent and using her litter tray?

Tam

Your vet should be able to tell whether the paralysis is caused by arthritis/spondylosis or EC.

Arthritic rabbits often develop bone spurs which make the legs look slightly deformed, and x-rays would detect degeneration of the spine.

You can help her clean her ears by sticking your finger down her ear and having a good scratch around. Your finger will be too big to fit into the ear canal, so you don't have to worry about sticking it too far down and hurting her.

I'm afraid I don't know of any other drugs which may help her, other than what you are already giving her.

Good luck

I have been exercising her legs myself, I did it earlier and afterwards although she was wobbley she didn't fall sideways and was able to hop into the hutch like normal.

They stopped using the litter tray after I got Jess a couple of years ago. They poop more in the hutch than the run and I have a large underbed storage tray acting as the biggest litter tray I could find in the bottom of the hutch, but the side it too high for Honey so I've taken it out for now. She pooped just on the towel in the run this afternoon and to be honest I haven't seen her urinate lately but I've seen her drink and I found her the other day with a wet hip where she must have been lying in urine.

I'll see if we have some sort of ramp in the garage for the hutch. I've taken the ladder out so they're only using the downstairs part of the hutch, this still allows plenty of room for them all though.

Something else which makes things worse is Jess sometimes humps her, despite all of them were spayed years ago, and the humping causes Honey to collapse. I only have three so I can't separate them into pairs. Yesterday when Jess humped her I put Jess in the hutch and left the girls in the run but I can't do that during the week as I work.

When she managed to sit up I noticed that when looking at her from above her left hip bone is higher, as in nearer her nose, than her right and also her back curves slightly to that left side. Is that what you mean by 'slightly deformed'?

Beat me to it, has she been x-rayed, we had a bunny who went off her legs and she was found to have spondylosis, although I suspect she also had EC as she developed neurological symtoms and she eventually had to PTS, but that was because she lost a huge amount of weight. We did look into a trolley, they are fairly common in america, but it is a lot of work to look after a disabled bunny, and yes flystrike is a concern. But I suppose you could use rearguard to protecet her.