help please with problem rabbit. long post sorry !!

Hello

I really really need some help please as im getting to the end of my tether and i really dont know what to do

Basically my rabbits are shadow, a neutered female who ive had for three years and Bailey a neutered male who i adopted form the RSPCA last year. They are both indoors with shadow living inside all her life but Bailey was an outdoor bun before we got him.

Shadow had been very happy living inside and im glad she did as she loved running around the house playing with things and gettin loads of attention from us. But I think Bailey is really unhappy being indoors.

They live in a big dog crate on two levels and im having huge problems with him digging the litter tray out and then the both of them weeing and pooing outside the litter tray in the kicked out litter. This soaks through to the bedsheet i have on the base plus they wee over the side which goes all over the carpet. i dont blame shadow as she goes to the toilet on litter and i think her eyesight is going. But a couple of months ago Bailey started going to the toilet outside the littertray and when id put it in the tray hed get very annoyed and agressive and now he kicks it out everywhere. Its really stressing me out as it takes about half an hour to take it all out, clean the cage put a new sheet in and bedding etc and after getting in from work from working long hours til 7 or half 7 its really p***ing me off. I dont mind doing it once a week and changing the litter everyday which is a two minute job but its costing me a fortune in litter and washing powder!

Bailey also never plays or runs about and when he does throw things around its like hes angry not having fun. When im at home i leave the door open but they dont come out anymore. They just sit in the cage and then at night he tries to destroy everything in the cage which is keeping me awake at night as its in the bedroom. Also its affecting Shadow. She used to love coming out and spend all day out of the cage playing and shredding newspaper etc but now shes like a 'shadow' of her old self. She rarely plays now and just sits next to him and the pair of them look miserable. Shes a clean rabbit and its not fair that she has to live in one big litter tray.

I think he digs at the litter and is destuctive becasue hes frustrated i dont think hes suited to life on the inside. I know rabbits like to dig but he never used to do it. Also he goes for our cat which he has done from the start but hes getting more and more aggressive and last night he tore a chunk out of our nervous resuce cat. Needless to say OH is very angry.

Please any advice would be appreciated. Its gettin to the point where im considering getting rid but i dont want to as i got Bailey cos i didnt want to get rid of Shadow but now i may have to get rid of her BECAUSE of him. its not fair.
BTW we live in a flat with no outside space. Ive also tried a number of things to discourage the digging litter and providing other things to dig but no luck.

Sorry you're having a hard time with your bunnies - I'm not really sure I have any advice - I have heard of people giving their aggressive buns a sort of herbal drop thing - to calm them down - I'll see if I can find the name of it, or maybe someone else will know.

Yeah you could try bach flower remedies too....
If you want to just let me know and I could suggest some for you

Thanks, hes not agressive all the time, he can be quite sweet when he wants to. Dont know if that will make him happier though. I could try it. Would rescue remedy work?? worked well on the horses

I would advise you first to get him checked over by a vet as aggression can sometimes be caused by pain.
Rabbits can be very particular about their decor. If I try to put the litter a few inches away from normal my male bunny will throw it around. Is he trying to show you where HE wants his tray?
Does he have any difficulty hopping into the tray? you could try one with a cutaway side if that is the case.
If there's room it might help to put a dog pen around the cage (put non-slip lino or something similar over the carpet to protect it)as a sort of run so that there's room to put the litter tray in the outside area: he might not like having his toilet near his bed. All of mine use litter trays in their runs and never go in there indoor areas

I don't think it's really an indoor/outdoor issue but I do think you could be right that there's a bit of frustration involved.

Best thing to do is tackle it from two angles. One, deal with the mess he's making and two try and get to the bottom of why he's doing it and solve it.

For the mess, a deeper tray may help, a storage box is good you can pick them up cheap in pound shops/wilco's etc. Once you've got it drill a couple of holes in the sides and thread a cable tie through and use this to attach it to the cage sides so it can't be shoved around. Rabbits should have no problem hopping in/out of a storage box but if they are reluctant you can cut one side down a bit and just smooth the cut edge with a bit of sandpaper.

Bailey sounds like he's maybe a smart bun with a quite a bit of energy and he's not getting enough stimulation to keep him happy. I've a little terror that will happy sit and dig a corner constantly if he's not given enough stimulation. Drives us crazy sometimes trying to keep him occupied. It's not a question of space as such (he has the run of the whole kitchen 24/7) but keeping him mind stimulated. I think this is the same issue Bailey has. Good news is you can make it better

You need to give him this to do to make he think and rotate this so he has different things each day. Most bunnies are food motivated and chewing motivated. So a combination of the two usually goes down best. Try a treat ball, it's just a little ball that's hollow and you put dry food in. They have to chase it to get the food out - you may find it gets both more active. Once they have the hang of it get rid of the food bowl and just use it.

Make him work for the best bits of food, wrap a piece of carrot in layers of newspaper so he has to shred it to get the treat. Once he has the hang of it put the wrapped food in a toilet roll tube to make it even harder - then hang the tub up to make it even harder. You'll need to start by having it easy to get the carrot so one bit of paper and putting the carrot near the end of the tube so he can smell it easily - then get progressively more difficult.

Try parse-the parcel a series of boxes within boxes with a treat in each layer - punch a few holes in the box so he can smell the treat inside.

Put greens on top of the crate so he has to stretch to reach them and pull them through the bars.

Put hay in hanging toilet rolls.

Give him a tunnel (make one out of a card box) but put sticks through blocking the way so he has to chew them to clear his tunnel.

Almost all our card recycling goes via a bunny to get shredded first :lol: You can make up batches of boxes etc. with dry food so you can chuck them in when your busy.

Here's some pics:

Carrot, wrapped in paper, hung up just in reach:


Dry food, mixed with hay, put in a box and hung up in reach (if you stand on a box):


Den sized cardboard box with small windows cut ready for remodelling:


Tunnel:


Another tunnel & remodelling:



Box stuffed with hay/dry food:


Egg box with dry food and small holes punched:


Toilet roll & hay:


treat ball:


These sort of things will make both bunnies more active and should make Bailey a little less destructive. You do need to give him at least one new thing a day though.

Tam

I just noticed that you say you have a cat. He could well be very upset by having a predator so close! I know some rabbit get on with cats, but not all will. He could well by marking his territory in the only way he knows how. Is it possible to have the buns in a room that the cats don't go in?

I LOVE Tamsin's pics! Looks like such a naughty bunny!

Some great ideas Tasmin, will be borrowing them.

I've always noticed that it's my boys that are the diggers & most likely to explore & try and throw a litter tray to one side. I stop them causing chaos by having a heavy highsided litter tray that is actually an under bed storage box. I've also had sucess stacking crates. Needs to be about 15 cm high. They also have like tamsins carboard boxes to dig in, munch on & destroy & they also have their carrier which is their favourite digging spot. Tunnels also good fun & willow balls to have a good chew on.

Heres some pics of the set up ive got.

We live in a small one bed flat thats pretty much open plan. Usually the cat is faster then Bailey and runs past, he spends most of his awake time (which isnt much!) in the living room where the rabbits dont usually go. I think last night he just wasnt fast enough. Shadow and the cat get on great though.

This was mucked out totally yesterday. note wee on carpet which i havent cleaned up properly!!


This was the other week when its clean which is obviously not to baileys taste


Bailey (brown bunny) chillin and conserving his energy for another night of wanton destruction. With my lovely lady Shadow


I originally only had the two big ones but he started weeing in the other corner and another big one wouldnt fit. I had to move it again cos they were weeing in the middle now they do it at the bottom of the ramp.

There is some really good ideas in there that ill try. I already stuff hay in a toilet tube and in the grass basket thats in there(before they ate that too). They also have a treat ball which they play around with when they come out. Ive hung snack sticks and parsley bells from the cage and stuff carrots in a wooden block with holes in. I also rotate their toys regularly but it doesnt keep him amused for long enough.

And yes that is a pair of my old pink knickers upstairs..I wrap treats in them and they have to unravel them to get the food. Sometimes i throw in the old argos catalogue for them to chew on too and bits of cardboard. The trouble is that the cage is at the bottom of our bed and they cant have anything that makes too much noise cos it keeps me up and i only get a few hours sleep a night. I use ear plugs when im not working but i cant hear my alarm when i have them in and have been late to work before!

Well im off to the shops to find a big box and have a stiff drink before mucking this out.

Their set up looks fine The important thing is to keep things new so try taking some toys out then rotating what's in there so they don't have them all the time. You can make plastic toys new again by washing them or rub a bit of scent like vanilla essence on card/hay based toys to make them different.

You could also try a puppy pen so they can have exercise time and still have bars between them and your cat

Is there any space to move them out of your room? I'm not surprised you don't get much sleep :shock: and bunnies are most active at night. If you can't then I think you can get vibrating alarm clocks to go under your pillow aimed at people that are deaf so you can wear ear plugs all week

The other thing you can try for keeping the mess in is plastic corrugated card around the edges. You can buy big sheets and cut them to size. Stuff like this. Just tie it in place with cable ties

I would consider using Correx which is the corrigated cardboard to along the base of the cage and up the sides to keep the wee and also the mess inside.

Have you considered using bigger and deeper litter trays, mine never got on with the triangular ones and I find putting lots of hay in the trays encourages them to sit in them and poop whilst they are eating the hay.

hmm i hadnt thought of that. I had a wander round bnq but couldnt see anything like that.

I have however returned with a rather large storage box which is pretty high. I need to cut a hole in it though cos its too high at the mo! It doesnt quite fit the whole length of the cage and the gap left isnt big enough tofit another box in so i think ill try a hay and food filled cardboard box in the corner infornt of the ramp which hopefully should put them off going to the toilet there.

dunno if two smaller ones would be better though. gunna muck them out and have a look at the logistics of it all before i start going at the box. At least if he does dig the box it will keep me up but i wont have to clean up the mess every day!

I will have a look for the alarms too. got the rest of the week off so ill use the ear plugs (also help block out bf snoring too so its not all bad!)

Oh yeah and I did put hay in the littertrays but they just sat in front of the tray eating it and it had no effect on his digging. also put straw, didnt work and shavings, made it even worse he ran straight over to it and the effects can be see in the above photos. (this was on top of their usual wood based litter)

Tamsin said:

Click to expand...

That is unbelievably cute! :lol:

well spent last night making a new litter tray from the storage box and cutting holes in cardboard to make an interesting nighttime experience for them. Heres the new litter tray:


Front lip is a bit lower then id wanted but OH went a bit wobbly with the jigsaw. All he edges have been melted down with a lighter so they are smooth.

Heres the new layout in the cage


When i fed them id didnt put the food in the bowl i put it on top of the hay in the cut out box, wrapped some in my knickers ( the pants in the cage not the ones on myself ) and put some in a loo roll with hay.




So the ear plugs wentin last night and they didnt really wake me up and this morning there was no litter on the floor woohoo!!! Bailey had been digging in it but he hadnt managed to get any over the edge, success!!

Brilliant I'm really glad you got them sorted, it's funny how the little things can really drive you crazy :lol:

I've really enjoyed reading this thread as these are the sorts of problems I was worried about when thinking of having houserabbits. Thanks to everyone who contributed. (All the rabbits are adorable, even if they are very naughty!)

Just wanted to say a big thanks to all who contributed and I hope this has helped others and given people ideas and dont give up cos I was close to it!

Another mess free night and i managed most of it without ear plugs too hurray!! Bunnies, especially Bailey, seem much happier and contented and shadow is eating alot more hay which is something ive always had trouble with.

Having rabbits definatly brings out the creative side of you!!!!
:wave: