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Harley's thread - Confusing update #56

~ILoveMyBunny~ said:
Thanks Jane, I'll take a look at it now.
It's agonising having to wait until Friday. His appointment should have been today at our local surgery but the car is off the road as it needs it's MOT (my Mum's just taken it up so hoping it passes, if not I have no idea how I'll get him all the way to Swansea :()
I just can't believe this is happening. I didn't think it could get any worse than losing Maple at 2 1/2yrs. This little bun has stolen our hearts. We all love him so much. To potentially be losing him this young. I just can't imagine it.
He's so incredibly strong. I can't imagine him as having cancer.
Just... Agh :cry:
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Is he insured? I think sometimes thru cover travel costs don't they? Perhaps you could arrange a pet taxi? If you Google pet taxi you may find one in your area

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
 
loobers25 said:
Is he insured? I think sometimes thru cover travel costs don't they? Perhaps you could arrange a pet taxi? If you Google pet taxi you may find one in your area

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
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Sadly not. I was taking out insurance on him, I'd got the quotes and made the decision which company to go with and I was going to take the policy out in the morning (this was July I think?). That same night he got ill.

I've gone over everything I can think of - there's absolutely no way for me to get to Swansea on Friday. A taxi would cost £145 both ways - money I'll need if Harley's going to have chemo. I can't believe it would cost that for a taxi-!
I don't have any friends who are able to take me on Friday. I did consider car hire but I have no way to get my Mum (the only one who can drive and who is disabled/can't walk far at all) to a car hire place. On top of that the MOT is booked for the same time as the appointment (the exotics consultants only do mornings, I already have the latest appointment) and she can't be in two places at once.
I'm out of options. There's no way I can make the appointment :(
The only thing I can think to do is to phone my normal surgery tomorrow, explain the situation and take him up to them on Friday afternoon (assuming the car passes, it should as it's having the work done before the MOT) and hope they can liaise with the exotics specialist and move us forward in some way. I'll take Snowflake up as well.
Then I can take him back to see the exotics specialist on Tuesday next week at the normal place instead of Swansea - hopefully already with a plan of action in mind.
This is all one big mess and I'm frustrated we have a suspected diagnosis of something so incredibly serious and I have no way to get him the treatment he needs in good time :( Of all times for the stupid car to fail us.

Edit: Thanks Jane. I'm really worried about her :( I assume they're going to want to cut it off. They seem to say they're around 1cm? This is much smaller than that, hopefully that means it's been caught at an earlier stage? I assume they have the potential to turn cancerous even if they're usually benign?
Why now :cry:
 
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I'm sorry to hear you're going through so much with your bunnies at the moment. ((((((((((Huge hugs)))))))))))

Let me just say that, while I'm also not a vet, I do have some experience with a head tilt bunny. My Mimzy suffered sudden onset at 3 years. It was a long fight but we beat it back and he lived to be 10 years old. If Harley is having issues with balance, please speak to your vet about using motions sickness drugs like meclizine, along with his current treatments, it can be compounded for small animals. It helped Mimzy a great deal while he was trying to get his wonk to a stable level. And if you're going to continue metacam I assume your vet has spoken to you about how you can't use it alongside steroids because they will cause ulcers in your bunny. It would have to be a choice of one or the other and a time period elapsing between when you stop one and begin the other.

The lump on your other bun is probably a papilloma, like Jane said, my Yorkie has several of them and more pop up every day. I've had them removed from her in the past and the vet found them to be benign. As an animal ages they will sometimes get more of these the same as we get skin tags and other blemishes. Jenna is only 11 years old but seems to have a predisposition to sprouting them frequently. They should not be anything to worry about, but you can certainly see about having it excised and tested if it's a concern to you. If your bun is of poor health though, and you're concerned surgery is too risky, you vet may advise it's not worth removing. Sometimes another will just grow back because they're like cysts and if you don't get the whole thing it just fills up again.

Keep in mind in regards to Harley that the test for E.C. is patently unreliable. My vets have all told me a false negative is very common. We just assumed Mimzy had it and had probably passed it to my other two bunnies. Neither of them developed symptoms of head tilt. It's a hit or miss illness and presumed to be something most rabbits carry.

I really hope you're able to get something arranged whereby you can see the specialist and that they have some good answers for you. Hang in there and try to keep a positive thought. Much love to you and Harley. xxxxx
 
Thank you MimzMum. I did speak to the exotic vet some time ago about something to help relieve his symptoms e.g human medication for dizziness etc but he wasn't keen to use anything. He said he'd tried it, albeit only in one rabbit, and seen no benefit. However I've now seen a few experinces (mostly it seems from the US, I guess it's easier to access over there?) from people who say it has provided some benefit. If it can't hurt e.g conflict with medication he's going to be on then myself I don't see the harm in trying, at worst surely it just won't work? I will bring it up again with the next vet I see as that is his main problem. He wanted to be quite active today but stumbled everywhere, it's awful to see. If he felt less dizzy and more coodinated his quality of life would imrpove dramatically.
Regarding current meds, I've not given him anything for 2 days as I've been waiting for the vet to phone me back and so far haven't recived a call. I suspect a breakdown of communication between reception and the vet as he is a wonderful and dedicated vet - I don't think he'd just forget to call me. I chased it up again this morning and she said she'd have him call me. I waited all day with the phone literally in hand but no call. I'm out of metacam anyway but I don't know if I should be continuing the sulfatrim or fenbendazole as I've had no advice :?
Thank you for the warning re. metacam and steroids! I had no idea about that so I'll be sure to keep that in mind if he gets put on them. If I'm understanding correctly steroids aren't a 'cure' so much as palliative care? If so that's not what we want, we've discussed it and we want to give him a chance for a 'cure' (remission) so if the vet is agreeable we want to try the chemo. This is all assuming a definitive diagnosis of lymphoma.
Harley is a fighter and if anyone can beat it it's him. He's got great strength still and if his balance wasn't so terrible you'd still never know anything was wrong. He has energy, youth and sheer stubbornness on his side. I believe he's maintaining a good weight currently and looks to be otherwise in good condition. He deserves a chance at a long life if that it at all possible. He's not giving up so neither are we.

About the blood test I didn't know it could be fairly unreliable for EC, though now that you mention it I think something Jane sent me did actually say that. I wonder if it would be worth repeating the blood test? I may ask if I can get him to my normal surgery on Friday afternoon. We were starting to feel a little more relaxed about the risk to the other rabbits (we've been maintaining a strict quarantine) but we're being careful until we know for sure what's going on. It's worth keeping in mind there's possibly still a risk of EC then as it means we have to keep that up to protect the others.

Regarding Snowflake I'll go on the vets advice but personally I think I'd feel more comfortable if they removed it. But I will go on what the vet says, if they'd prefer to monitor I can do that. She is otherwise very healthy, however she is very stasis prone when stressed so the risk could be greater than the benefit. She's only about 4yrs old but I know these things can pop up at any age. It's reassuring to know it might not be anything too nasty. Still, I'm eager to have her checked as soon as possible.

What does confuse me with Harley is why he was so bad initially but after a few weeks of treatment he got back about 95% to normal. We were certain he was over it. Surely if cancer was causing the problem he wouldn't get better for some time? Isn't that more of an EC related thing, to get better then go down again? I just don't know :(

Thank you all so much for your support. I'll make some phonecalls tomorrow and rearrange things with the vets. Hopefully if all goes well I might have an update (and I hope a positive one) Friday afternoon-ish.
I really can't thank you all enough for your support and advice through all of this xx
 
~ILoveMyBunny~ said:
Thank you MimzMum. I did speak to the exotic vet some time ago about something to help relieve his symptoms e.g human medication for dizziness etc but he wasn't keen to use anything. He said he'd tried it, albeit only in one rabbit, and seen no benefit. However I've now seen a few experinces (mostly it seems from the US, I guess it's easier to access over there?) from people who say it has provided some benefit. If it can't hurt e.g conflict with medication he's going to be on then myself I don't see the harm in trying, at worst surely it just won't work? I will bring it up again with the next vet I see as that is his main problem. He wanted to be quite active today but stumbled everywhere, it's awful to see. If he felt less dizzy and more coodinated his quality of life would imrpove dramatically.
Regarding current meds, I've not given him anything for 2 days as I've been waiting for the vet to phone me back and so far haven't recived a call. I suspect a breakdown of communication between reception and the vet as he is a wonderful and dedicated vet - I don't think he'd just forget to call me. I chased it up again this morning and she said she'd have him call me. I waited all day with the phone literally in hand but no call. I'm out of metacam anyway but I don't know if I should be continuing the sulfatrim or fenbendazole as I've had no advice :?
Thank you for the warning re. metacam and steroids! I had no idea about that so I'll be sure to keep that in mind if he gets put on them. If I'm understanding correctly steroids aren't a 'cure' so much as palliative care? If so that's not what we want, we've discussed it and we want to give him a chance for a 'cure' (remission) so if the vet is agreeable we want to try the chemo. This is all assuming a definitive diagnosis of lymphoma.
Harley is a fighter and if anyone can beat it it's him. He's got great strength still and if his balance wasn't so terrible you'd still never know anything was wrong. He has energy, youth and sheer stubbornness on his side. I believe he's maintaining a good weight currently and looks to be otherwise in good condition. He deserves a chance at a long life if that it at all possible. He's not giving up so neither are we.

About the blood test I didn't know it could be fairly unreliable for EC, though now that you mention it I think something Jane sent me did actually say that. I wonder if it would be worth repeating the blood test? I may ask if I can get him to my normal surgery on Friday afternoon. We were starting to feel a little more relaxed about the risk to the other rabbits (we've been maintaining a strict quarantine) but we're being careful until we know for sure what's going on. It's worth keeping in mind there's possibly still a risk of EC then as it means we have to keep that up to protect the others.

Regarding Snowflake I'll go on the vets advice but personally I think I'd feel more comfortable if they removed it. But I will go on what the vet says, if they'd prefer to monitor I can do that. She is otherwise very healthy, however she is very stasis prone when stressed so the risk could be greater than the benefit. She's only about 4yrs old but I know these things can pop up at any age. It's reassuring to know it might not be anything too nasty. Still, I'm eager to have her checked as soon as possible.

What does confuse me with Harley is why he was so bad initially but after a few weeks of treatment he got back about 95% to normal. We were certain he was over it. Surely if cancer was causing the problem he wouldn't get better for some time? Isn't that more of an EC related thing, to get better then go down again? I just don't know :(

Thank you all so much for your support. I'll make some phonecalls tomorrow and rearrange things with the vets. Hopefully if all goes well I might have an update (and I hope a positive one) Friday afternoon-ish.
I really can't thank you all enough for your support and advice through all of this xx
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As I understand it the supposed findings of possible Lymphoma made by your current Vet must be AS WELL AS EC/Middle ear infection. Lymphoma does not cause the symptoms Harley has (Vestibular disturbance) as a 'stand alone' clinical symptom. Gastrointestinal symptoms would almost certainly be present and the Vet would have felt some enlarged lymph nodes I would have thought :?

http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00dis/Miscellaneous/MulticentricLymphomaRabbit.htm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12038857

I hope you manage to speak with the Vet today, sending more vibes and hugs xx
 
I’m sorry it’s such a difficult situation :cry: I don’t suppose the vets have a vet taxi or collection service? Or maybe there’s a pet taxi in your area? sending lots more vibes and hugs xx
 
Jack's-Jane said:
As I understand it the supposed findings of possible Lymphoma made by your current Vet must be AS WELL AS EC/Middle ear infection. Lymphoma does not cause the symptoms Harley has (Vestibular disturbance) as a 'stand alone' clinical symptom. Gastrointestinal symptoms would almost certainly be present and the Vet would have felt some enlarged lymph nodes I would have thought :?
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This is what I found confusing. He said he's never seen a rabbit present this way, I assume by that he means that the lymphoma (if that's what it is) being the cause of the head tilt etc? I don't see how it could cause those issues. So if the lymphoma is a second unrelated issue it does beg the question what is causing the head tilt. My understanding from everything I've read that you've sent me (also referring to Molly Varga's book) is that the primary causes are going to be EC or ear infection. Both of those have been considered negative. The x-ray was clear. If the EC blood test is unreliable I assume a logical next step would be to repeat the blood test? It's been 16 days since that sample was taken so maybe it would give different results? Problem is it will be another 10 days to get the results again :(
I've still not been able to get hold of the vet so in the absence of anyone being able to advise me otherwise I've resumed the sulfatrim and fenbendazole as if there's still a chance it's EC or an infection I'm guessing that would be the right thing to do? I'd rather know from the vet but I can't seem to get hold of him :?
So far he hasn't presented any GI symptoms. Eating is, as previously mentioned, the typical greedy rex. I have noticed his droppings are very dark despite him eating a lot of hay but otherwise they are normal size, shape etc. He did drink a lot yesterday but he also put it back out again. No signs of straining or any issues. He eats his cecotrophes on his own unaided.
The eye on the tilted side I have noticed is not looking quite right, it's red (the eyelid a little but the white of the eye above iris/pupil area in particular) and looks a little inflammed. The inflammation seems to go up and down, sometimes looking worse and sometimes better (maybe stress related?). Not sure what that may suggest? Definitely doesn't look normal though and something I want checked asap.
No vet has seen him now for 16 days, the news was given to me over the phone on Tuesday as I missed the appointment due to the car. Is it possible I could feel the lymph nodes if they were unusual or is that something only a vet could tell? I'm not sure where to find them on a rabbit?
I'm hoping to get him to our normal surgery tomorrow afternoon along with Snowflake. The exotic appointment will be Tuesday now :(
Zoobec, the pet taxi was a wonderful idea. I didn't know they existed but I looked it up and there is actually one not too far away (about 20 mins from here). Unfortunately though they don't cover as far as Swansea. But thank you for the suggestion, it was a good idea!
Thank you all again so much for your continued support. You have no idea how wonderful you all are xx
 
I know it’s a little longer to wait but you can’t do any more than you are doing. I once had to use a pet taxi when I adopted my previous cat from the rspca, and he had to go to their vets for neutering, that’s how I heard about them. Also my vets collect from my local branch to take them in for operations etc.

Sending lots more hugs and vibes xx
 
Thank you Zoobec xx I just wish I could get him the help he needs now :( I feel like I'm letting him down by not getting him there urgently. Snowflake too. My Mum's had that car for years, it's never failed it's MOT. Of all times to fail it had to be now :(
 
~ILoveMyBunny~ said:
This is what I found confusing. He said he's never seen a rabbit present this way, I assume by that he means that the lymphoma (if that's what it is) being the cause of the head tilt etc? I don't see how it could cause those issues. So if the lymphoma is a second unrelated issue it does beg the question what is causing the head tilt. My understanding from everything I've read that you've sent me (also referring to Molly Varga's book) is that the primary causes are going to be EC or ear infection. Both of those have been considered negative. The x-ray was clear. If the EC blood test is unreliable I assume a logical next step would be to repeat the blood test? It's been 16 days since that sample was taken so maybe it would give different results? Problem is it will be another 10 days to get the results again :(
I've still not been able to get hold of the vet so in the absence of anyone being able to advise me otherwise I've resumed the sulfatrim and fenbendazole as if there's still a chance it's EC or an infection I'm guessing that would be the right thing to do? I'd rather know from the vet but I can't seem to get hold of him :?
So far he hasn't presented any GI symptoms. Eating is, as previously mentioned, the typical greedy rex. I have noticed his droppings are very dark despite him eating a lot of hay but otherwise they are normal size, shape etc. He did drink a lot yesterday but he also put it back out again. No signs of straining or any issues. He eats his cecotrophes on his own unaided.
The eye on the tilted side I have noticed is not looking quite right, it's red (the eyelid a little but the white of the eye above iris/pupil area in particular) and looks a little inflammed. The inflammation seems to go up and down, sometimes looking worse and sometimes better (maybe stress related?). Not sure what that may suggest? Definitely doesn't look normal though and something I want checked asap.
No vet has seen him now for 16 days, the news was given to me over the phone on Tuesday as I missed the appointment due to the car. Is it possible I could feel the lymph nodes if they were unusual or is that something only a vet could tell? I'm not sure where to find them on a rabbit?
I'm hoping to get him to our normal surgery tomorrow afternoon along with Snowflake. The exotic appointment will be Tuesday now :(
Zoobec, the pet taxi was a wonderful idea. I didn't know they existed but I looked it up and there is actually one not too far away (about 20 mins from here). Unfortunately though they don't cover as far as Swansea. But thank you for the suggestion, it was a good idea!
Thank you all again so much for your continued support. You have no idea how wonderful you all are xx
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Sometimes middle ear disease can be missed on Xray and only picked up on on a CT scan. I think you have done the right thing in restarting the abx and Panacur. It must be very frustrating not to be able to have direct contact with the Vet. If you could get him some Metacam prescribed by the Vet tomorrow personally I think that would be a good idea. Both EC and Otitis media cause inflammation within the vestibular system and it is the inflammation that causes the clinical symptoms (head tilt/rolling etc)

A 100% unqualified opinion here, but I would be astounded if the Specialist confirms a diagnosis of Lymphoma. As we have said before, Harley is in good spirits and I am certain his rolling is more distressing for you than it is for him. I doubt he's to happy about it, but I suspect he finds it annoying rather than anything else. He is not 'depressed', he ease eating well and generally bright within himself. Hold on to those FACTS rather than dwelling on all the 'what ifs'.

I hope the Vet's appointment goes well for both Harley and Snowflake xx

ETA- eye problems can be a common occurrence in 'head tilt' Rabbits. Sometimes artificial tears need to be applied several times a day and if there is any active infection something like Isathal may be prescribed.
 
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Agreeing with everything Jane has said again and I'll add one more; abx will also have the potential to skew test results for a number of things, E.C. being one. But it's better Harley has them than not. As long as he's doing well with them it's a standard course of treatment.

I share your frustration in being unable to get to the vet or even get a response to phone calls. While living in Alaska there were plenty of times prompt veterinary attention was unobtainable or had to be postponed. In the meantime you are doing all you can with the knowledge you have.

I would keep an watch on his eye for now. It could be part of the head tilt if he's scraped it during a roll or it could be something secondary. Mimzy's "down" eye often caught pieces of hay and carpet fibers and he also had dry eye which made it appear red and inflamed. Hopefully when you get him to the vet it will just be a matter of adjusting his meds or including some moisturizing drops for him.

In the meantime you're doing brilliantly for Harley, he sounds to be coping very well. Head tilt is one of those illnesses that have a one step forward-three steps back progression also. Some days he'll seem better and other days not so much. It took 6 months of round the clock nursing for me to get Mimzy to be well enough to bobble about on his own again and in the first two months I went back and forth on whether he could recover at all. But bunnies can do amazing things and he not only beat the odds but thrived. He was stuck with about a 30 to 40 degree tilt the rest of his life but he was unable to right himself at all and had a 90 degree tilt at the start. Gentle neck and shoulder massage seemed to help a bit with residual symptoms. It sounds like Harley is just as determined to beat this and he has you in his corner fighting with him. :)

I hope for the best outcome for you both in this. Hang in there! (((((((Healing vibes and hugs)))))))) xxxx
 
Both saw a vet today, Snowflake's had a sample taken from the lump to be safe but he thinks it's probably just a skin tag. We should have results in a few days if there was enough there (it was hard to get a sample though he did his best).
Harley is still a bit unknown, though the vet's been absolutely fantastic and really took his time with him. I always feel so fortunate that we've got such wonderful vets here.
He thinks they'll want to do an MRI to see if there's anything on the brain. Not sure where the closest surgery is with an MRI. I know we had one fairly close where we used to live but I imagine a longer trip up here. Anyway, it sounds like that is what the next step might be. I hope we'll find out more from the exotics vet on Tuesday.
He's going to try to get the exotic vet to phone me in the meantime as I seem to be having trouble getting the message passed along. Hopefully they'll take it more seriously from another vet. For now he's back on metacam and for the moment to continue sulfatrim and fenbendazole. The blood results seem to be making EC look very unlikely.
The more immediate concern at the moment is his eye, it looks pretty nasty - especially now it's had to be touched etc, it's irritated it. It's the top eyelid - the only way I can describe it is like it's inflamed and prolapsed. The third eyelid seemed fine. He put an anaesthetic in to check it thoroughly and some dye to check for ulceration.
He's put him on an antibiotic eyedrop and a lubrication for now.
I had been feeling fairly hopefully that it wasn't lymphoma but for some reason feel less so today - I'm not sure why :?
He confirmed what I thought about steroids in that they seem to be more of a palliative care option. So I'm hoping if it is cancer that they'll let me proceed with chemo (and hoping we'll be able to afford it :?) as I really think he deserves a chance to fight it and hopefully have a long life.
I asked him about something to help relieve the dizziness symptoms, he's also going to run that by the exotic vet again.
So waiting hopefully for a phonecall now. I don't think they work weekends so probably looking at Monday now. If not he's got an appointment with an exotic vet (not the usual one as he's not on this week) on Tuesday morning. So hopefully we'll know then.
It's worrying knowing that he could have something so serious and not being able to get it treated right away. I'm not good at being helpless in these situations.
But I suppose that's all we can do for now. He's been rolling horribly all morning in the carrier etc. As soon as he went back in his pen he rolled once then he was upright and back to normal. In familiar surroundings he generally does very well. He's still well in himself aside from that and the eye.
Just waiting and hoping now I guess :(
 
~ILoveMyBunny~ said:
Both saw a vet today, Snowflake's had a sample taken from the lump to be safe but he thinks it's probably just a skin tag. We should have results in a few days if there was enough there (it was hard to get a sample though he did his best).
Harley is still a bit unknown, though the vet's been absolutely fantastic and really took his time with him. I always feel so fortunate that we've got such wonderful vets here.
He thinks they'll want to do an MRI to see if there's anything on the brain. Not sure where the closest surgery is with an MRI. I know we had one fairly close where we used to live but I imagine a longer trip up here. Anyway, it sounds like that is what the next step might be. I hope we'll find out more from the exotics vet on Tuesday.
He's going to try to get the exotic vet to phone me in the meantime as I seem to be having trouble getting the message passed along. Hopefully they'll take it more seriously from another vet. For now he's back on metacam and for the moment to continue sulfatrim and fenbendazole. The blood results seem to be making EC look very unlikely.
The more immediate concern at the moment is his eye, it looks pretty nasty - especially now it's had to be touched etc, it's irritated it. It's the top eyelid - the only way I can describe it is like it's inflamed and prolapsed. The third eyelid seemed fine. He put an anaesthetic in to check it thoroughly and some dye to check for ulceration.
He's put him on an antibiotic eyedrop and a lubrication for now.
I had been feeling fairly hopefully that it wasn't lymphoma but for some reason feel less so today - I'm not sure why :?
He confirmed what I thought about steroids in that they seem to be more of a palliative care option. So I'm hoping if it is cancer that they'll let me proceed with chemo (and hoping we'll be able to afford it :?) as I really think he deserves a chance to fight it and hopefully have a long life.
I asked him about something to help relieve the dizziness symptoms, he's also going to run that by the exotic vet again.
So waiting hopefully for a phonecall now. I don't think they work weekends so probably looking at Monday now. If not he's got an appointment with an exotic vet (not the usual one as he's not on this week) on Tuesday morning. So hopefully we'll know then.
It's worrying knowing that he could have something so serious and not being able to get it treated right away. I'm not good at being helpless in these situations.
But I suppose that's all we can do for now. He's been rolling horribly all morning in the carrier etc. As soon as he went back in his pen he rolled once then he was upright and back to normal. In familiar surroundings he generally does very well. He's still well in himself aside from that and the eye.
Just waiting and hoping now I guess :(
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I really hope that the Exotics Vet will be able to obtain a definitive diagnosis as I know how horribly stressful it is to be totally in the dark with what may be wrong. At least once settled in his familiar environment Harley seems to cope a lot better. For what it's worth, and of course it's totally unqualified, my opinion is that Lymphoma is very unlikely. If it's not EC then I'd put my money on Otitis media. Sending lots of vibes for Harley and supportive hugs for you xx
 
Hey all,
So we just got back from the vet, who was amazing. While she can't rule it out and it's still a possibility she thinks lymphoma's unlikely and is leaning towards an ear infection - as you said Jane!
I'm hoping in many ways it's that, though I know it's still a major thing, as at least it hopefully means it's not cancer. She checked his lymph nodes and didn't say anything was wrong so I assume all seems okay there.
She also looked at the x-ray herself and she feels that there may be something there.
For the moment he's on some new meds, he's on co-trim and metacam at new higher doses and for the moment off of lapizole. He's also been put on tramadol, stemetil and azithromycin. The last two I'm picking up from the chemist tomorrow as they didn't have them but hopefull it might help him. She's going to see how he is by phone in a few days and recheck in a week.
What she has mentioned is potentially surgery to drain it. She's also mentioned about doing a CT scan but is leaving it up to us to decide if we want to do that in the next few days or not.
I'm not sure what to do at this stage. I don't like to bring money into decisions like this but I do have to consider that it will cost £900 for a CT scan local-ish or £680 to take him to another surgery back in England, nearly a 2hr drive (not that we mind that if he needs it).
That will be on top of the surgery which she estimates around £700. I have no issue paying that myself, but my Mum would be paying some, at least for now, which I feel a bit guilty about.
Obviously I want to do what's best for Harley so it's a bit difficult to know what to do. If I understood correctly it also means he'll lose hearing in that ear, though I think she said that without it he could be left with a permanent tilt.
I'm not too sure what to do :? I'm thinking wait to see how he does over the next few days and think about it if there's no improvement in a week? Does that sound like I good way forward or-?
I want to do what's best for him.
If he needs the CT and surgery then that's what we'll do. But I'm not sure if we should try to treat with medication first or not?
On the one hand I know it's still very serious for him but I'm so relieved that it may not be cancer. I know it's not ruled out but it's good to know that it's not a certainty.
 
~ILoveMyBunny~ said:
Hey all,
So we just got back from the vet, who was amazing. While she can't rule it out and it's still a possibility she thinks lymphoma's unlikely and is leaning towards an ear infection - as you said Jane!
I'm hoping in many ways it's that, though I know it's still a major thing, as at least it hopefully means it's not cancer. She checked his lymph nodes and didn't say anything was wrong so I assume all seems okay there.
She also looked at the x-ray herself and she feels that there may be something there.
For the moment he's on some new meds, he's on co-trim and metacam at new higher doses and for the moment off of lapizole. He's also been put on tramadol, stemetil and azithromycin. The last two I'm picking up from the chemist tomorrow as they didn't have them but hopefull it might help him. She's going to see how he is by phone in a few days and recheck in a week.
What she has mentioned is potentially surgery to drain it. She's also mentioned about doing a CT scan but is leaving it up to us to decide if we want to do that in the next few days or not.
I'm not sure what to do at this stage. I don't like to bring money into decisions like this but I do have to consider that it will cost £900 for a CT scan local-ish or £680 to take him to another surgery back in England, nearly a 2hr drive (not that we mind that if he needs it).
That will be on top of the surgery which she estimates around £700. I have no issue paying that myself, but my Mum would be paying some, at least for now, which I feel a bit guilty about.
Obviously I want to do what's best for Harley so it's a bit difficult to know what to do. If I understood correctly it also means he'll lose hearing in that ear, though I think she said that without it he could be left with a permanent tilt.
I'm not too sure what to do :? I'm thinking wait to see how he does over the next few days and think about it if there's no improvement in a week? Does that sound like I good way forward or-?
I want to do what's best for him.
If he needs the CT and surgery then that's what we'll do. But I'm not sure if we should try to treat with medication first or not?
On the one hand I know it's still very serious for him but I'm so relieved that it may not be cancer. I know it's not ruled out but it's good to know that it's not a certainty.
Click to expand...

I would give systemic treatment a good couple of weeks, maybe even a month, before making any big decisions re CT scans and surgery xx
 
Thanks Jane :) I wasn't sure if it was the kind of thing that can be 'left' for a while or not but if we can revisit the CT/surgery decision in a few weeks without any ill effect for Harley then I think that would be the better thing. Not just financially but I'm thinking of putting him through the sedation, surgery etc. If meds alone could possibly pick him up that would surely be so much better for him.
So pleased he may still have a chance to get through this. He's such a strong little boy and so full of personality. He really deserves a recovery from this if it's at all possible.
 
I'm really pleased the vet visit today was more positive. I would also be inclined to try the medication and giving it a chance to work before going down the ct scan and surgery route.

The price they quoted for the scan seems awfully high. One of my buns had a ct scan last week and the total cost was around £450 and that included the fee for keeping her in overnight as an inpatient. That was with a specialist in London and everything's usually so much more expensive here!

I've often found that vets tend to quote the maximum possible amount it could get to, just so you don't get a nasty shock when they present you with the bill at the end. So if you do find you need to go for the scan and surgery, it may well end up costing less than they've quoted.

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Just a quick update in case anyone wants to know..
Last week saw some improvement with Harley after a week on the new meds, he's able to stand up now outside of his pen generally without rolling and righting himself easier. However he's still got a very severe head tilt and no significant progress was made this week. At the vet today he seemed a little worse than the last visit in terms of rolling on the floor (although it's obviously very slippery).
He'd had another blood test which the vet sent to a different lab this time, the results came back negative for EC again so it looks like it probably rules that out (probably). The anemia is still there and roughly the same but she said it did seem as though it was regenerative so there must have been a very slightly improvement.
The lymphocytes were at 68% which is a drop as they were up around 97% apparently so she's still considering lymphoma to be unlikely, even more so now. I think she strongly believes it to be the ear infection.
He's scheduled for a CT scan on Thursday, though the vet suggested it would be around £680 at Swindon (plus another £70 for contrast) and on the phone today they told me an estimate of £950-£980 :shock:
We don't have a choice as she really wants to confirm the diagnosis and it's going on too long - something needs to be done, he can't keep going on like this. I am tempted though to phone Cardiff's one tomorrow as it's half the distance and the only reason we chose Swindon is she said Cardiff's vet would be around £900. So I may phone in the morning and see what they say, if it's around the same price I may ask her if she can change the referral or not as it's a long distance to travel. If it's confirmed she may try another antibiotic like metronidazole or may go for surgery.
What does worry me though, she said if both ears are infected his prognosis is very poor. Aside from the increased cost for surgery it will come at a far greater risk to him and the possibility of scar tissue that causes a permanent problem will be high.
I feel awful as this is using most of the money my Mum was going to use to put up a shed for our work but we all agree this little fighter needs it and deserves it. He's so strong willed and he's got such a character. He's fought through this for months now and he's still an unstoppable force. He deserves every chance. I just hope he can pull through it as he's got such a will to live.

Edit: changed thread name as lymphoma seems unlikely now
 
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He does seem like a real fighter, and you are doing the very best you can for him. I hope that you can get the better price for the CT scan at least....

Sending lots more vibes and hugs xx
 
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