Scrappy's Little Helper
Mama Doe
Oh don't they look fantastic! As Fr Dougal Macguire once said, it's like a big bunny rock festival!
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Bonding Nine - now a Quintet and maybe a Quad?
- Thread starter tlcwrites
- Start date
tlcwrites
Mama Doe
Day 7 - 9am
Gaaah I'm tired. Athena has been such a goon since about 5am. She's the one causing all the problems now. Yes, Erasmus is still occasionally buzzing and trying half-heartedly to hump, but Athena is nipping, grunting and chasing other buns, and starting them all off. It's all quite fractious this morning, so now I am getting concerned. I don't want to have got this far for it all to fall into pieces. Especially so, as both cats are finally(!) in the house and ready to go to their respective vet appointments, so no one will be home for half an hour or so.
It also doesn't help that I've already been blatantly told that they need to be out of the house soon. Which means rushing them, rushing sorting out some outside accomadation, rushing, rushing, rushing. I am wondering if it might be a good thing though. I do believe Athena especially is feeling cramped, as she seems to act out if someone comes in her "personal" space when she doesn't want it.
Decided to experiment by placing some hazel branches in the bonding pen. For the most part, it's been pretty sedate. Only one little chase since the addition. But still, I'm now worrying again, because it's just been a nasty few hours or so.
What do other people think about getting them outside in spite of the few minor chases/humping? Is it going to be a recipie for bad news in the future? Is it going to help them to have a proper run and be outside again? They are all very much "outside rabbits" and some especially like that independence away from people. I don't know.
https://youtu.be/oEyS8OvKwvY
Gaaah I'm tired. Athena has been such a goon since about 5am. She's the one causing all the problems now. Yes, Erasmus is still occasionally buzzing and trying half-heartedly to hump, but Athena is nipping, grunting and chasing other buns, and starting them all off. It's all quite fractious this morning, so now I am getting concerned. I don't want to have got this far for it all to fall into pieces. Especially so, as both cats are finally(!) in the house and ready to go to their respective vet appointments, so no one will be home for half an hour or so.
It also doesn't help that I've already been blatantly told that they need to be out of the house soon. Which means rushing them, rushing sorting out some outside accomadation, rushing, rushing, rushing. I am wondering if it might be a good thing though. I do believe Athena especially is feeling cramped, as she seems to act out if someone comes in her "personal" space when she doesn't want it.
Decided to experiment by placing some hazel branches in the bonding pen. For the most part, it's been pretty sedate. Only one little chase since the addition. But still, I'm now worrying again, because it's just been a nasty few hours or so.
What do other people think about getting them outside in spite of the few minor chases/humping? Is it going to be a recipie for bad news in the future? Is it going to help them to have a proper run and be outside again? They are all very much "outside rabbits" and some especially like that independence away from people. I don't know.
https://youtu.be/oEyS8OvKwvY
tlcwrites
Mama Doe
It's sounding really positive
Yep, that's Helios. No other bunny looks quite like him.
CometLucy195
Alpha Buck
With 9 together, would you not get some occasional scraps anyway, even fully bonded? Surely there would never be a completely harmonious big group, there will always be favourites, Close pairs etc within the group? I’d say don’t rush it, but there will come a practical point when you need your house back. If you have to move them, perhaps give them the same size space to start with?
CometLucy195
Alpha Buck
Oops duplicate post, finger slipped..
joey&boo
Wise Old Thumper
Well I had to abandon my trios small space bonding as they were so bored & tetchy it wasn't helping. Boo is not a beast to be contained & given Joeys 30 min binky performance when he escaped I don't think he was best pleased either. So mine moved in to their permanent space (our lounge) before they'd make any real progress at all. If your instinct is to try outside I'd give it a go. Its hopefully nice weather for it (its gorgeous here)
I really hope it goes well AND you get a decent kip soon
I really hope it goes well AND you get a decent kip soon
I would also try putting them outside as soon as you can. I know my recent bond wasn't in any way similar (only 2 rabbits, one of which was sexually immature and unspayed), but Tethra was attempting to nip Tui at every opportunity and it was only the fact that she was faster and had space to get away that imo it resolved itself.
I think the fact that you have had no actual aggression is key to this.
I think the fact that you have had no actual aggression is key to this.
tlcwrites
Mama Doe
Day 7 - 4.10pm
So I took the advice and dared to move them. They have a sheltered crate in a 6x8ft run. Pipe is blocked off. Only a crate tonight as I disinfected and vinegar washed the failing 6x2ft hutch and want to ensure it is bone dry before allowing them into it. I'll alter things so they can go in the hutch first thing in the morning.
There's been some pretty ghastly moments. Athena at first, then Morpheus wanting to take a chunk out of everyone, (especially Neo, but never Mus.) We actually had to intervene with Morpheus and Neo once. A couple of occasions of squealing, but aside from once, it was over before I reached them. Nothing's hurt, I think it was more bruised pride at times, and/or surprise.
However, they have calmed in the past half hour or so. There's been lots of digging, the re-emergence of grooming, a few binkies, lots of headrubs for Meadow and Mus. An escape attempt from Mus (on camera!) I think the increased space and change of locale has upset the balance a little. However, Mus's attempts at humping have got increasingly half-hearted and the fact that after 3 hours or so things have almost returned to where we were before moving them out has me relieved.
I *do* have photos and videos, but they'll have to wait as I am completely done in right now.
So I took the advice and dared to move them. They have a sheltered crate in a 6x8ft run. Pipe is blocked off. Only a crate tonight as I disinfected and vinegar washed the failing 6x2ft hutch and want to ensure it is bone dry before allowing them into it. I'll alter things so they can go in the hutch first thing in the morning.
There's been some pretty ghastly moments. Athena at first, then Morpheus wanting to take a chunk out of everyone, (especially Neo, but never Mus.) We actually had to intervene with Morpheus and Neo once. A couple of occasions of squealing, but aside from once, it was over before I reached them. Nothing's hurt, I think it was more bruised pride at times, and/or surprise.
However, they have calmed in the past half hour or so. There's been lots of digging, the re-emergence of grooming, a few binkies, lots of headrubs for Meadow and Mus. An escape attempt from Mus (on camera!) I think the increased space and change of locale has upset the balance a little. However, Mus's attempts at humping have got increasingly half-hearted and the fact that after 3 hours or so things have almost returned to where we were before moving them out has me relieved.
I *do* have photos and videos, but they'll have to wait as I am completely done in right now.
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kattymieoww
Warren Veteran
Oh gosh you must be exhausted with it all.I remember when we bonded neutered two year old Rio with his future wife Cleo.She was a baby ,ten weeks old.We used the long hall as neutral ground.I had a strong squirter water gun to hand!.He was very interested and most gentle,a bit of humping etc,she was totally subserviant to him,laid her head down etc,they were bonded and loved up in three days.She did literally throw herself at himroll over and spray him and me!Sadly she died from severe bloat aged four..Rio lived to eight,collapsed in my room,screamed once and was gone.Buried in my garden.
.Rio lived to eight,collapsed in my room,screamed once and was gone.Buried in my garden.
tlcwrites
Mama Doe
Day 7 - 8.30pm
Can't sleep; might as well update.
So having the crate in the run really didn't work. It gave them an alleyway where they could ambush, and thus, chase one another. So I've hurriedly sorted out a new blockade for the pipe, moved the hide, and given them the hutch. River is being a little hutch possessive. Meadow is incredibly proud of her new trick of jumping on the hop/hide, into the hutch, and going back down again. It's only just struck me how very tiny she is compared to the rest, including Persephone. Sweet little Meadow has been a complete darling for the whole week she's been here. Obviously I am very much head of heels in love with this dinky dutchie.
Neonara meanwhile, had settled himself in a corner of the run. Morpheus kept approaching him, then turning on his heels to change his mind. I think those 2 boys might finally have reached an understanding. Athena is still being a bit funny about personal space, and sometimes a bit nippy/chasey. However, since removing the crate, the atmosphere in the run has been a heck of a lot better, so I'm glad I sorted it, even if River is being possessive at the moment. Tomorrow, I might even contemplate clearing the smallest run (4x4ft), and the smallest hutch above it, so they can go through the pipe to it. The "original" trio, managed to escape through there when I was faffing around, as did the dutches and Persephone. Thankfully, they didn't really have any arguments over the space in spite of it very much being non-neutral territory. But I can't give it to them tonight; it's too much, too soon. But I do think I'll be increasing space quicker than I originally thought. I somewhat feel like they need space to get away from one another as well as space to hang out. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
How many rabbits can you see? (I'm not even sure. )
Persephone's upped her DBF game
Neo and Athena at work
Another "guess the number of rabbits" I guess?
Up and down.
More "how many rabbits can you fit in a shot?"
Bunnies, bunnies everywhere
https://youtu.be/vRaxcg0-ka8 video 2
https://youtu.be/1u6MBFRM6FM video 3
https://youtu.be/4XPalKC15hk video 4
https://youtu.be/NpDdJhJWAfg video 5
Can't sleep; might as well update.
So having the crate in the run really didn't work. It gave them an alleyway where they could ambush, and thus, chase one another. So I've hurriedly sorted out a new blockade for the pipe, moved the hide, and given them the hutch. River is being a little hutch possessive. Meadow is incredibly proud of her new trick of jumping on the hop/hide, into the hutch, and going back down again. It's only just struck me how very tiny she is compared to the rest, including Persephone. Sweet little Meadow has been a complete darling for the whole week she's been here. Obviously I am very much head of heels in love with this dinky dutchie.
Neonara meanwhile, had settled himself in a corner of the run. Morpheus kept approaching him, then turning on his heels to change his mind. I think those 2 boys might finally have reached an understanding. Athena is still being a bit funny about personal space, and sometimes a bit nippy/chasey. However, since removing the crate, the atmosphere in the run has been a heck of a lot better, so I'm glad I sorted it, even if River is being possessive at the moment. Tomorrow, I might even contemplate clearing the smallest run (4x4ft), and the smallest hutch above it, so they can go through the pipe to it. The "original" trio, managed to escape through there when I was faffing around, as did the dutches and Persephone. Thankfully, they didn't really have any arguments over the space in spite of it very much being non-neutral territory. But I can't give it to them tonight; it's too much, too soon. But I do think I'll be increasing space quicker than I originally thought. I somewhat feel like they need space to get away from one another as well as space to hang out. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
How many rabbits can you see? (I'm not even sure.
)
Persephone's upped her DBF game
Neo and Athena at work
Another "guess the number of rabbits" I guess?
Up and down.
More "how many rabbits can you fit in a shot?"
Bunnies, bunnies everywhere
https://youtu.be/vRaxcg0-ka8 video 2
https://youtu.be/1u6MBFRM6FM video 3
https://youtu.be/4XPalKC15hk video 4
https://youtu.be/NpDdJhJWAfg video 5
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tlcwrites
Mama Doe
Oh gosh you must be exhausted with it all.I remember when we bonded neutered two year old Rio with his future wife Cleo.She was a baby ,ten weeks old.We used the long hall as neutral ground.I had a strong squirter water gun to hand!.He was very interested and most gentle,a bit of humping etc,she was totally subserviant to him,laid her head down etc,they were bonded and loved up in three days.She did literally throw herself at himroll over and spray him and me!Sadly she died from severe bloat aged four.
Some bonds can happen so quickly, sometimes you're wrestling with the rabbits - seeing who blinks first, you or them. :lol:
It's so sad, the way you lost sweet Rio and Cleo. However, you have been blessed with a lifetime of memories with them.
Even though their lifetime is never long enough.ETA: There is an update post on the last post of page 9.
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Jemima
Alpha Buck
Ive only just seen this, it’s all looking really good. It’s a similar story to when I bonded 6 and I found I was expanding the space, then restricting a bit, then expanding again all based on how they were reacting to each other. Eventually they all settled but there are still minor squabbles.
Everything looks incredibly tidy - mine pooed everywhere while they were bonding [emoji90]. I hope all continues to go well.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Everything looks incredibly tidy - mine pooed everywhere while they were bonding [emoji90]. I hope all continues to go well.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
tlcwrites
Mama Doe
Day 8 - 4pm
Poor Morpheus has a gash on his back. I'm bathing it and putting a little sudocrem on it in the hopes of keeping it clean and infection free. I don't want to have to deal with an abscess due to my pig-headedness.
However, aside from that, it's all been a lot nicer since late morning. The return of grooms between various rabbits. Athena has been worshipping the sun. Body language is all very calm, and Morpheus is being much more cautious near Neonara. Hopefully the injury means he's learned his lesson. And Neo started grooming Morph after I put him back post-wound clean.
Erasmus is definitely top buck, Athena is top doe, but demurrs to Mus. River, Selene, and Meadow are all bottom or near the bottom. I think the move has meant Neo and Morpheus, and to a lesser extent Helios and Persephone, are all vying for the middling positions in the group and thus, that's what caused the arguments during the move outside.
Poor Morpheus has a gash on his back.
I'm bathing it and putting a little sudocrem on it in the hopes of keeping it clean and infection free. I don't want to have to deal with an abscess due to my pig-headedness.However, aside from that, it's all been a lot nicer since late morning. The return of grooms between various rabbits. Athena has been worshipping the sun. Body language is all very calm, and Morpheus is being much more cautious near Neonara. Hopefully the injury means he's learned his lesson. And Neo started grooming Morph after I put him back post-wound clean.
Erasmus is definitely top buck, Athena is top doe, but demurrs to Mus. River, Selene, and Meadow are all bottom or near the bottom. I think the move has meant Neo and Morpheus, and to a lesser extent Helios and Persephone, are all vying for the middling positions in the group and thus, that's what caused the arguments during the move outside.
tlcwrites
Mama Doe
Day 11 - 1pm
Morpheus has been in the wars. We tentatively increased space Saturday and he was beat upon again. :roll: We've decreased them back to the 6x8ft run, with the 6x2ft hutch. Seems so tiny for so many buns. I know it is, but it's still more space than many rabbits ever see in a lifetime. And more importantly, it won't be all the space they have in time. It's only phase 2 of bonding them all. But even so, things were very calm this morning. Morpheus kept himself to himself in the hutch. Persephone lazed alone in the middle of the run. The other 7 were in a cuddle puddle underneath the hutch in the shade.
I'm so tired! Upset over Morpheus's back, but I'm hoping bathing, metacam, and a little sudocrem will prevent any nasties. He has 3 cuts, as far as I can tell. He hates treatment and that makes me sad because I only want to help. It's relevant I promise...
As for the pecking order - as the dutches are new, I had no idea where they'd sit. Erasmus as Chief Rabbit doesn't surprise me a bit, nor does Athena being top doe (head of the Owsla?) I'm not surprised Selene is rank-and-file near the bottom. Surprised Rivergrace is so near the bottom. I expected her to challenge the middling a bit more as I adopted Erasmus due to her tenuous relationship with Athena after Apollo & Takumi died. Morpheus is the biggest surprise; I thought he'd settle near the bottom and leave any squabbling to Persephone. Instead, he's been quite literally in the wars, poor boy.
If I could hazard a guess, the rankings are probably:
Erasmus
Athena
Neonara
Persephone
Morpheus
Helios
Rivergrace
Meadowbloom
Selene
Or Selene and Meadow are just the cleverest as to keep out of all the drama. :lol:
Morpheus has been in the wars. We tentatively increased space Saturday and he was beat upon again. :roll: We've decreased them back to the 6x8ft run, with the 6x2ft hutch. Seems so tiny for so many buns. I know it is, but it's still more space than many rabbits ever see in a lifetime. And more importantly, it won't be all the space they have in time. It's only phase 2 of bonding them all. But even so, things were very calm this morning. Morpheus kept himself to himself in the hutch. Persephone lazed alone in the middle of the run. The other 7 were in a cuddle puddle underneath the hutch in the shade.
I'm so tired! Upset over Morpheus's back, but I'm hoping bathing, metacam, and a little sudocrem will prevent any nasties. He has 3 cuts, as far as I can tell. He hates treatment and that makes me sad because I only want to help. It's relevant I promise...
As for the pecking order - as the dutches are new, I had no idea where they'd sit. Erasmus as Chief Rabbit doesn't surprise me a bit, nor does Athena being top doe (head of the Owsla?) I'm not surprised Selene is rank-and-file near the bottom. Surprised Rivergrace is so near the bottom. I expected her to challenge the middling a bit more as I adopted Erasmus due to her tenuous relationship with Athena after Apollo & Takumi died. Morpheus is the biggest surprise; I thought he'd settle near the bottom and leave any squabbling to Persephone. Instead, he's been quite literally in the wars, poor boy.
If I could hazard a guess, the rankings are probably:
Erasmus
Athena
Neonara
Persephone
Morpheus
Helios
Rivergrace
Meadowbloom
Selene
Or Selene and Meadow are just the cleverest as to keep out of all the drama. :lol:
joey&boo
Wise Old Thumper
Thanks for replying. I hope you get some rest soon & the worry eases up. Yep - I think Selene & Meadow might be the wise ones
tlcwrites
Mama Doe
Day Sixteen - 8.45am
I awoke to a nasty cut on Persephone's ear. For her and Morpheus, this group is too much. It's ended my plans of having 9, for now. It's not fair on them. Neither settled particularly well in the group; Meadow had taken to chasing Persephone, and Morpheus was avoiding everyone. I'm tending to their wounds and hoping they'll settle back down together.
I'm hoping this will mean the remaining 7 will settle down nicely now.
I awoke to a nasty cut on Persephone's ear.
For her and Morpheus, this group is too much. It's ended my plans of having 9, for now. It's not fair on them. Neither settled particularly well in the group; Meadow had taken to chasing Persephone, and Morpheus was avoiding everyone. I'm tending to their wounds and hoping they'll settle back down together.I'm hoping this will mean the remaining 7 will settle down nicely now.
I'm sorry to read this I hope that the wounds soon clear up and that Persephone and Morpheus are happier out of the group. It was a lot to expect that nine rabbits, all with different personalities, would live together amicably and I really don't think anyone could have achieved a better outcome. You know your rabbits and will have realised what the situation was.
I'm a firm believer that rabbits cannot be made to bond, even by an expert, highly experienced bonder (which of course you are), if they do not really feel comfortable in doing so. And of course, to force the issue could mean nasty wounds and the worry for you that they could not be left alone.
Sending lots of hugs. You've put a lot of time and energy into this and must be exhausted, as well as a bit disappointed.
I hope that the wounds soon clear up and that Persephone and Morpheus are happier out of the group. It was a lot to expect that nine rabbits, all with different personalities, would live together amicably and I really don't think anyone could have achieved a better outcome. You know your rabbits and will have realised what the situation was.I'm a firm believer that rabbits cannot be made to bond, even by an expert, highly experienced bonder (which of course you are
), if they do not really feel comfortable in doing so. And of course, to force the issue could mean nasty wounds and the worry for you that they could not be left alone.Sending lots of hugs. You've put a lot of time and energy into this and must be exhausted, as well as a bit disappointed.
