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Bunnies have fallen out!

L

lauren64

New Kit
We have a pair of male rabbits (one lop eared called Frodo and a lion head called Bilbo) who are now about 18 months old. We bought them together (they were in the same cage in the shop) and have kept them in the same indoor cage since having them. We had them neutered as soon as we got them and they have mostly lived in harmony since, sleeping together, running around to find each other and constantly grooming each other. They are let out almost every day and have the run of our lounge and conservatory for a couple of hours. About once every 2 months they had a scuffle and we found fur in the cage (Bilbo is very fluffy though so it doesn't take much activity for it to fly everywhere), but it seemed to be triggered by something like not letting them out for a few days or when my parents dog came in the house. After 6 months, Frodo had a puncture wound through the bottom of his ear but this has healed and we supervised them every time they were out but nothing seemed to happen again. When they fought, we just kept them separate for an hour or two and then they were fine together. Almost a month ago now, they started fighting again and Bilbo had a scratch right across his eye (miraculously missing his actual eyeball) so we separated them and bought a separate cage to wait until his eye had healed. We kept the cages side by side so they could still smell/see each other, initially thinking we could put them back together again like normal.

However, they are both now becoming indifferent to us and won't come over for a cuddle or stroke, and Bilbo (the very friendly one) bit my friend yesterday. Frodo was always the much bigger, grumpier rabbit so we thought he was the dominant one but he seems very sullen now and has lost interest in doing anything in the cage other than sitting and eating. I'm worried they are both becoming quite introverted and lonely.

I'm now scared of reuniting them though as they are still showing signs of aggression towards each other.
If Frodo is in a cage and we let Bilbo into the lounge to go back in the cage, he now runs straight to Frodo's cage and tries to bite him through the bars and Frodo will try to bite him back. And vice versa if Bilbo is in the cage, Frodo will try to bite him through the bars.

Is it OK that we are letting them individually run around the conservatory or is this making reuniting them worse? I don't want them to become more territorial and confused that they can smell the other rabbit in there. We tried to have one run round the lounge and the other in the conservatory but it's not always possible if we want them to have a proper run for a while.

Someone told me to put a soft toy in each of their cages so it smelt like them, then switch them to the other cage but both rabbits couldn't have cared less really! How long can we leave it before it's too late to reintroduce them? I was thinking we could try to reintroduce them in our bedroom as they've never been in there and it's big enough for them to run away from each other if they feel threatened. My partner thinks they will seriously hurt each other if they are put together again.

Help!!
 
Hiya..

Can I ask, have you had them vet checked?

Bunnies can sometimes get a bit mpre feisty and start fighting if one of them is not feeling well. You say Frodo has lost interest in anything other than sitting and eating. Eating is good but i'd maybe get him checked, just in case.

They can also get feisty on Spring, its a ohenomenon known as spring fever when hormones kick in. It may be though that the bind has broken down.

I dont know what else to suggest perhaps someone can advise further

All the best
Fee xxx
 
I don't have any advice I'm afraid, as I've no experience of resurrecting bonds, just wanted to say good luck : I hope someone comes along with some good advice
 
lauren64 said:
We have a pair of male rabbits (one lop eared called Frodo and a lion head called Bilbo) who are now about 18 months old. We bought them together (they were in the same cage in the shop) and have kept them in the same indoor cage since having them. We had them neutered as soon as we got them and they have mostly lived in harmony since, sleeping together, running around to find each other and constantly grooming each other. They are let out almost every day and have the run of our lounge and conservatory for a couple of hours. About once every 2 months they had a scuffle and we found fur in the cage (Bilbo is very fluffy though so it doesn't take much activity for it to fly everywhere), but it seemed to be triggered by something like not letting them out for a few days or when my parents dog came in the house. After 6 months, Frodo had a puncture wound through the bottom of his ear but this has healed and we supervised them every time they were out but nothing seemed to happen again. When they fought, we just kept them separate for an hour or two and then they were fine together. Almost a month ago now, they started fighting again and Bilbo had a scratch right across his eye (miraculously missing his actual eyeball) so we separated them and bought a separate cage to wait until his eye had healed. We kept the cages side by side so they could still smell/see each other, initially thinking we could put them back together again like normal.

However, they are both now becoming indifferent to us and won't come over for a cuddle or stroke, and Bilbo (the very friendly one) bit my friend yesterday. Frodo was always the much bigger, grumpier rabbit so we thought he was the dominant one but he seems very sullen now and has lost interest in doing anything in the cage other than sitting and eating. I'm worried they are both becoming quite introverted and lonely.

I'm now scared of reuniting them though as they are still showing signs of aggression towards each other.
If Frodo is in a cage and we let Bilbo into the lounge to go back in the cage, he now runs straight to Frodo's cage and tries to bite him through the bars and Frodo will try to bite him back. And vice versa if Bilbo is in the cage, Frodo will try to bite him through the bars.

Is it OK that we are letting them individually run around the conservatory or is this making reuniting them worse? I don't want them to become more territorial and confused that they can smell the other rabbit in there. We tried to have one run round the lounge and the other in the conservatory but it's not always possible if we want them to have a proper run for a while.

Someone told me to put a soft toy in each of their cages so it smelt like them, then switch them to the other cage but both rabbits couldn't have cared less really! How long can we leave it before it's too late to reintroduce them? I was thinking we could try to reintroduce them in our bedroom as they've never been in there and it's big enough for them to run away from each other if they feel threatened. My partner thinks they will seriously hurt each other if they are put together again.

Help!!
Click to expand...

Hello. We have a really similar problem so whilst I can't help, I am interested in any advice people might have. We have got our now got our two boys in separate houses in the same room and every night we have been making them swap houses. I tried reintroducing them in the bathroom last week (neutral ground) about a week after their original fight and after they appeared to be interested in each other again. Unfortunately, Arthur still seemed to be scared of Norman once they had sniffed each other's backsides so that didn't go that well.

Since then, they have to take it in turns to come out in the house and in the last day it has escalated into a pooing and weeing contest which is not ideal. This evening, Norman, decided to go to the toilet alongside the house Arthur is currently in when previously, they were both pretty well toilet trained (apart from the occasional territorial issue wee which had been solved by putting white vinegar on the carpet). Also, previously Arthur has been scared of Norman whereas tonight, I noticed he was being aggressive through the cage to Norman with his tail up etc.

So tomorrow, we will be moving Arthur into a separate room. We originally wanted to move him into the kitchen which is next door to where Norman will be living in the front room but is that too close for them both? Norman will run around the kitchen so keeping him out of there isn't guaranteed. Equally, I don't really want to move Arthur upstairs where he won't see us quite as much.

I wanted to try and keep them apart for a while before attempting stress bonding but does anyone have any advice? Many thanks.
 
Hi Fee, I haven't taken them to the vets recently as it seemed to really stress them out last time so I wanted to avoid it. Frodo does run around in circles, jump and climb all over the chairs in our conservatory and binky so I think he's feeling OK. Just miserable on his own. Bilbo seems much less bothered and seems to really like spreading out in his new cage. We are beginning to think now that maybe he was the quietly dominant one and Frodo was maybe challenging him every now and then which was the cause of the fights. He seemed to always be the one to start sniffing bums and is definitely the bigger eater. Bilbo always used to shove his head under Frodo when he was having a wash so he'd clean him too which I heard someone say before that that shows Bilbo was more dominant?

Joey&boo- thankyou :)

RT- I'm sorry you're having trouble too, so worrying isn't it? I was only just reading your message about Norman and Arthur on another thread. Do you think we should start swapping the cages round then? So you don't clean them out each time, they just have to get used to each others smells? One of the reasons we think Bilbo nipped was because the newer cage opens on one side so you have to kinda invade his personal space to feed him or whatever, whereas the older cage can open from the top which doesn't seem to bother them as much. Might try swapping them tomorrow then. I want to trim Frodo's claws before we reintroduce them as they are looking a little on the lethal side at the moment! What happened when you put them in the bathroom together, did they fight?

Lx
 
lauren64 said:
Hi Fee, I haven't taken them to the vets recently as it seemed to really stress them out last time so I wanted to avoid it. Frodo does run around in circles, jump and climb all over the chairs in our conservatory and binky so I think he's feeling OK. Just miserable on his own. Bilbo seems much less bothered and seems to really like spreading out in his new cage. We are beginning to think now that maybe he was the quietly dominant one and Frodo was maybe challenging him every now and then which was the cause of the fights. He seemed to always be the one to start sniffing bums and is definitely the bigger eater. Bilbo always used to shove his head under Frodo when he was having a wash so he'd clean him too which I heard someone say before that that shows Bilbo was more dominant?

Joey&boo- thankyou :)

RT- I'm sorry you're having trouble too, so worrying isn't it? I was only just reading your message about Norman and Arthur on another thread. Do you think we should start swapping the cages round then? So you don't clean them out each time, they just have to get used to each others smells? One of the reasons we think Bilbo nipped was because the newer cage opens on one side so you have to kinda invade his personal space to feed him or whatever, whereas the older cage can open from the top which doesn't seem to bother them as much. Might try swapping them tomorrow then. I want to trim Frodo's claws before we reintroduce them as they are looking a little on the lethal side at the moment! What happened when you put them in the bathroom together, did they fight?

Lx
Click to expand...

Hello. Yes its awful when they fall out isn't it? We have been swapping their houses most nights without always cleaning them out but to be honest, I don't think its helped. Funnily enough they shared a bowl of pellets this evening so I could swap them over without chasing but as soon as they aren't distracted by food they want to chase or get at each other. Whilst Arthur is scared of Norman when they are both free to do what they want, if Norman is shut in his house, Arthur has taken to almost taunting him and try and to get at him through the bars which is a new and unwanted development.

When I put them in the bathroom they were both initially cautious despite the floor being the same as in the kitchen which they are very used to. They then cautiously bum sniffed each other before Arthur started making a this weird whining noise that I think means he is scared. He then jammed himself behind the loo setting Norman off who took the chance to be aggressive and run at him. I managed to bundle Arthur into the vet box before any actual circling or fighting took place.

I think we are going to move Arthur upstairs tomorrow. He is constantly trying to wee on the carpet which is beginning to grate a bit now as its a relatively new carpet and it shows up rabbit wee stains rather nicely. Hopefully they can forget about each other for a bit when that happens.

Incidentally, both of them seem rather pleased with the situation as it is now. When they come out they binky and charge around and don't seem to miss each other's company when in the hutch either which is a shame.

Good luck with your two! Please let me know what you try and if anything works as I am beginning to loose heart and I am starting to think we are never going to sort them out. If nothing else, I really need the constant weeing from Arthur to stop plus Norman will wee given a chance as well.
 
Hi my only advice is that it sounds like they're not getting enough time out. What's your current set up for them? Are they in just a cage all the time or is there a run attached? Either way they should be getting at least 4 hours MINIMUM per day out , not just every other day as you suggested.

Might not be the reason for the fall out but I suspect it will help x
 
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