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Hutch Sizes (split from focus campaign)
- Thread starter bunnyhuggger
- Start date
Becky86
Wise Old Thumper
ShazzaBunny
Warren Veteran
I dont believe anyone at any point said this :?. Though i did get a bit bored so i may have missed it, please correct me if i am wrong. I thought the people you are disagreeing with all said there is nothing wrong with keeping rabbits in a 4ft hutch with a 4 ft run (making a total area of 6ft x 4ft).
yoshi&gizmo
Alpha Buck
agreed ................UNLESS they are sold with a run attached :lol::lol::lol:
SisterMoonbeam
Mama Doe
I was about to post the same kind of thing!
I don't want to contribute to any arguments but i think that in a rescue where they have permanent access to large runs 4ft accommodation is fine as its more of a shelter than actual housing but i don't think they should be sold at places like focus as people who are not as knowledgable than the OP and those at her rescue will buy them thinking they are okay and keep the bunnies shut in there permentanly
bunnyhuggger
Warren Veteran
*wipes poo from fan*
First of all, thank you to everyone who posted sensible and supportive (and sometimes lovely!) comments, and to those of you who have sent me pm’s and emails, much appreciated.
However I feel I’m entitled to respond, give my opinions (seeing as everyone else has one), give some clarity and defend my rescue.
It’s understandable that there should be concerns with regards to keeping rabbits in 4ft hutches, be they Focus or any other manufacturers, but if some people had taken the time to watch the video, they would have gathered that the hutches had permanent runs attached and provided an area of about 24 square feet, three quarters of which they can binky in and stretch up all they want. In what way are they cramped? Why are some people insisting CARROT keep buns in 4ft hutches and refusing to accept or acknowledge the fact that they were attached to permanent runs to allow 24/7 access? Is it too much to say ‘oops, sorry, I meant …. ‘
The hutches and runs were also weatherproofed with covering to keep rain/snow/sun off and, when necessary, also had side covers. With a bit of forethought from the seller (how often does that happen?), these hutches have a place in pet care providing the correct information is given on purchase. They provide shelter, and as some of you have pointed out, the buns very rarely used them anyway except as a toilet or someplace to sit a bit higher up from the ground, and we all know that most rabbits cope with cold weather better than heat, but the enclosed section was comfortably packed with yummy hay and, when it was really cold weather, a heat pad. Therefore they can be adapted to provide suitable accommodation and can add valuable stimulation when added to an original set-up which an ordinary hutch won’t do. Frosty and Crystal have a 3ft hutch inside their outdoor run which they love to sit on top of, oh wait …. no, that’s in addition to the wendy house which is attached to the run.
I am, however, a bit disappointed at some of the other disparaging comments, they weren’t very nice at all, and a personal insult and slur on CARROT in general. In 2004 we were the only rabbit specific rescue on the east coast of Scotland, and one or two small ones which were run by private individuals, we had people from all over Scotland, as far as 200 miles away, asking us to take their rabbit in, therefore we saw the need to provide a facility which could cater for at least some of them. But hey! Some people seem to think it would have been better to leave these needy rabbits in the squalor that they were in, and in desperate need of veterinary care in order that I could ‘save up’ and buy bigger hutches, how astounding! And how cold hearted! All buns who come into CARROT are cared for properly, yet it’s implied on this thread by some that they weren’t at that time, how can that be assumed? Why make sweeping and offensive assumptions when there is no certain evidence?
In 2004 there were very few 5ft or 6ft hutches to be had up here and few on the internet, so unless a local craftsman (which we tried to find but couldn’t get) could rustle up 12 in a short space of time, there was little choice, time was of the essence and in the meantime, needy buns were suffering, dying, being set loose in local fields, and some being ‘disposed of’
It’s also stated on our website that we believe in quality of care not seeing ‘how many rabbits we can cram in’, hence we limit our intake, unlike some, we know our limit and we stick to it.
As also stated before, we are not open to public viewing (a lot of people know we exist but don’t know where we are located, there are a couple of reasons for this which I wont go into) all visits by prospective adopters are by invitation only, that way we can spend time finding out about their rabbit knowledge and advising on suitable accommodation, food, care, vets etc. To say we ‘encourage’ people to use them and ‘champion’ the hutches is just plain silly. Just as an aside, I’m not sure I’d be happy with someone housing a baby bun newly separated from it’s mother and siblings in a 6ft hutch with a run underneath …. As for saying ‘lets hope no Giants come in’, yet another insult, how sad.
Yes we survive on donations and fund raising, and we pour as much of our own money into the rescue as we can. Unlike some, and similarly to other dedicated rescues, we don’t have fancy holidays abroad, I don’t have posh shoes and clothes, I don’t drink, any spare cash goes to the care of the buns and the maintenance of the rescue. In all the time we’ve been running, we’ve had one new hutch and run donated by a lovely lady, and we have an old portacabin bought with the help of the Rabbiting On (RWAF) sponsor scheme and refurbished with the help of some of the lovely people on Wabbiting On. For these things we are truly grateful and the portacabin is used by the vet when he comes to vaccinate and check over our rabbits, as well as a much needed storage area for spare indoor cages and pet carriers etc.
It’s really quite a task running a rescue, it’s emotionally, financially and physically draining, especially when there are only two of us to care for all the buns every day 24/7, we are lucky enough to have others who come in and help at weekends and can step in to take over when needed for short periods of time. We are also a recognised rabbit specific rescue placement for Edinburgh Vet School and students come to us every year for two week placements to get hands-on experience and an insight into rabbit behaviour and handling. I certainly don’t want to be doing this for the rest of my life, as much as I love the buns, I would like to have time to enjoy life as well. Maybe this would be a good time to start running the rescue down, because quite frankly, I’m tired. I am aware of two ‘situations’ in my town where there are over 100 rabbits in total and kept in dreadfully substandard conditions, I’m just waiting for that case to ‘blow’, I sincerely hope that all the rescues will pull together and help these buns out otherwise I hate to think of the outcome. I know that the SSPCA are aware of one of those locations, and apparently they are ‘happy with it’, lots of help there then ….. not!
This thread has really shown the true colours of members on RU, good and bad, but how sad it’s not as ‘united’ as it should be for the buns’ sakes. I’ve been a member on here since 2004 and have ‘known’ Tamsin and Adele since before then, I’ve had a lot of fun and shared many sad times with it’s members, but should I continue contributing, I dunno, probably not, I might say something I really would regret and it’s not worth it. It would also be nice to get an apology from those who have blatantly slated CARROT but I very much doubt that will be forthcoming.
First of all, thank you to everyone who posted sensible and supportive (and sometimes lovely!) comments, and to those of you who have sent me pm’s and emails, much appreciated.
However I feel I’m entitled to respond, give my opinions (seeing as everyone else has one), give some clarity and defend my rescue.
It’s understandable that there should be concerns with regards to keeping rabbits in 4ft hutches, be they Focus or any other manufacturers, but if some people had taken the time to watch the video, they would have gathered that the hutches had permanent runs attached and provided an area of about 24 square feet, three quarters of which they can binky in and stretch up all they want. In what way are they cramped? Why are some people insisting CARROT keep buns in 4ft hutches and refusing to accept or acknowledge the fact that they were attached to permanent runs to allow 24/7 access? Is it too much to say ‘oops, sorry, I meant …. ‘
The hutches and runs were also weatherproofed with covering to keep rain/snow/sun off and, when necessary, also had side covers. With a bit of forethought from the seller (how often does that happen?), these hutches have a place in pet care providing the correct information is given on purchase. They provide shelter, and as some of you have pointed out, the buns very rarely used them anyway except as a toilet or someplace to sit a bit higher up from the ground, and we all know that most rabbits cope with cold weather better than heat, but the enclosed section was comfortably packed with yummy hay and, when it was really cold weather, a heat pad. Therefore they can be adapted to provide suitable accommodation and can add valuable stimulation when added to an original set-up which an ordinary hutch won’t do. Frosty and Crystal have a 3ft hutch inside their outdoor run which they love to sit on top of, oh wait …. no, that’s in addition to the wendy house which is attached to the run.
I am, however, a bit disappointed at some of the other disparaging comments, they weren’t very nice at all, and a personal insult and slur on CARROT in general. In 2004 we were the only rabbit specific rescue on the east coast of Scotland, and one or two small ones which were run by private individuals, we had people from all over Scotland, as far as 200 miles away, asking us to take their rabbit in, therefore we saw the need to provide a facility which could cater for at least some of them. But hey! Some people seem to think it would have been better to leave these needy rabbits in the squalor that they were in, and in desperate need of veterinary care in order that I could ‘save up’ and buy bigger hutches, how astounding! And how cold hearted! All buns who come into CARROT are cared for properly, yet it’s implied on this thread by some that they weren’t at that time, how can that be assumed? Why make sweeping and offensive assumptions when there is no certain evidence?
In 2004 there were very few 5ft or 6ft hutches to be had up here and few on the internet, so unless a local craftsman (which we tried to find but couldn’t get) could rustle up 12 in a short space of time, there was little choice, time was of the essence and in the meantime, needy buns were suffering, dying, being set loose in local fields, and some being ‘disposed of’
It’s also stated on our website that we believe in quality of care not seeing ‘how many rabbits we can cram in’, hence we limit our intake, unlike some, we know our limit and we stick to it.
As also stated before, we are not open to public viewing (a lot of people know we exist but don’t know where we are located, there are a couple of reasons for this which I wont go into) all visits by prospective adopters are by invitation only, that way we can spend time finding out about their rabbit knowledge and advising on suitable accommodation, food, care, vets etc. To say we ‘encourage’ people to use them and ‘champion’ the hutches is just plain silly. Just as an aside, I’m not sure I’d be happy with someone housing a baby bun newly separated from it’s mother and siblings in a 6ft hutch with a run underneath …. As for saying ‘lets hope no Giants come in’, yet another insult, how sad.
Yes we survive on donations and fund raising, and we pour as much of our own money into the rescue as we can. Unlike some, and similarly to other dedicated rescues, we don’t have fancy holidays abroad, I don’t have posh shoes and clothes, I don’t drink, any spare cash goes to the care of the buns and the maintenance of the rescue. In all the time we’ve been running, we’ve had one new hutch and run donated by a lovely lady, and we have an old portacabin bought with the help of the Rabbiting On (RWAF) sponsor scheme and refurbished with the help of some of the lovely people on Wabbiting On. For these things we are truly grateful and the portacabin is used by the vet when he comes to vaccinate and check over our rabbits, as well as a much needed storage area for spare indoor cages and pet carriers etc.
It’s really quite a task running a rescue, it’s emotionally, financially and physically draining, especially when there are only two of us to care for all the buns every day 24/7, we are lucky enough to have others who come in and help at weekends and can step in to take over when needed for short periods of time. We are also a recognised rabbit specific rescue placement for Edinburgh Vet School and students come to us every year for two week placements to get hands-on experience and an insight into rabbit behaviour and handling. I certainly don’t want to be doing this for the rest of my life, as much as I love the buns, I would like to have time to enjoy life as well. Maybe this would be a good time to start running the rescue down, because quite frankly, I’m tired. I am aware of two ‘situations’ in my town where there are over 100 rabbits in total and kept in dreadfully substandard conditions, I’m just waiting for that case to ‘blow’, I sincerely hope that all the rescues will pull together and help these buns out otherwise I hate to think of the outcome. I know that the SSPCA are aware of one of those locations, and apparently they are ‘happy with it’, lots of help there then ….. not!
This thread has really shown the true colours of members on RU, good and bad, but how sad it’s not as ‘united’ as it should be for the buns’ sakes. I’ve been a member on here since 2004 and have ‘known’ Tamsin and Adele since before then, I’ve had a lot of fun and shared many sad times with it’s members, but should I continue contributing, I dunno, probably not, I might say something I really would regret and it’s not worth it. It would also be nice to get an apology from those who have blatantly slated CARROT but I very much doubt that will be forthcoming.
Lib_n_bunny
Wise Old Thumper
I don't appreciate being spoken to like that, I haven't mentioned you by name or had a personal go at you, I don't think there was any need for you to do it to me. And other people have said the thread needs to get back on track, why pick on me?!
I never said or implied that you personally had gone out to 'bring' a rescue down, so please don't imply that I did. And if you read what I said, I said "we run the risk of losing the forum", by which I was refering to this warning that we received in April:
http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?t=177143
Minimallow
Wise Old Thumper
Lynda. Put beautifully. We love you and Jim and the work you do and appreciate how much you have done for rabbit welfare and bunnies in general. You are special people and we (myself and Gordon) feel priviledged to be friends with you. If only people werent so judgemental of others the world would be a better place. Thank you for all the help and advice you have given us over the years. Its been a godsend. xx
I think some people have taken offence and very personally, well there was really no need to. If you didn't want to get criticism for using 4ft hutches in bulk then maybe you shouldn't have posted to a thread which was looking to get them banned, in such a jovial manner, which belittled what the thread was trying to achieve.
Minimallow
Wise Old Thumper
I didnt realise anything was said jovially? Which part was that :?
Minimallow
Wise Old Thumper
I dont think it was jovial at all. Maybe im wrong but dont think thats why lynda did it :?
Becky86
Wise Old Thumper
Hetty - the thread was started as many people on RU had sent letters to Focus about them selling 4ft hutches. Then this lady from the rescue came along and said she had bought the 4ft Hutches in bulk, hence the arguing :roll:
The arguing had all stopped, and everyone was on 'speaking' terms i believe until someone bought it back up again :roll:
bunnyhuggger
Warren Veteran
No Nic, it was done with irony not joviality, like I said before, these hutches have their place in pet care providing they are used appropriately.
And Lucy, why shouldn't some people take offence very personally if it is clearly aimed at them? I did what was needed at the time, and did it with thought for and attention to the welfare of the rabbits in my care. Which part of 'they served their purpose' is difficult for you to understand? I didn't notice too many other people 'criticising' the way you do, they were more understanding
Pettiness isn't prettiness in any form
And Lucy, why shouldn't some people take offence very personally if it is clearly aimed at them? I did what was needed at the time, and did it with thought for and attention to the welfare of the rabbits in my care. Which part of 'they served their purpose' is difficult for you to understand? I didn't notice too many other people 'criticising' the way you do, they were more understanding
Pettiness isn't prettiness in any form
I was thinking about this and I have to say I disagree with the comments made about the overall area. I turn people down that have anything under 5ft for a pair with an attached run. Without the attached run it needs to be 6ft.
I believe that because we live in a country where the weather is rubbish for the majority of the time, the accommodation should be large enough for 2 rabbits to live in comfortably and keep warm. Why would rabbits want to spend long periods of time sitting in the rain, especially when it's battering down as it does here a lot? They need to have a base that is spacious and comfy and enables them to be inside without feeling cramped. I don't think a 4ft hutch offers this.
The only exception to this would be a single rabbit.
I believe that because we live in a country where the weather is rubbish for the majority of the time, the accommodation should be large enough for 2 rabbits to live in comfortably and keep warm. Why would rabbits want to spend long periods of time sitting in the rain, especially when it's battering down as it does here a lot? They need to have a base that is spacious and comfy and enables them to be inside without feeling cramped. I don't think a 4ft hutch offers this.
The only exception to this would be a single rabbit.
bunnyhuggger
Warren Veteran
I wouldn't consider rehoming a rabbit to any size of hutch without a permanently attached secure run. I agree about the weather but I still don't think it's fair to have a rabbit or rabbits confined to a 6ft hutch without it/them having the option to leave the hutch if and when they choose when it rains for days on end, that in my eyes isn't right. It's not difficult to weatherproof a run and it means if they want to binky and display their natural behaviour, then they have the space to do it with an attached run, confined to a hutch, they don't.
Minimallow
Wise Old Thumper
It seems you dont properly read what people have said Lucy. How many times must it be stressed that the runs are ALSO covered - ie wind and rainproof - The elements dont get in so they still get their runaround time.
How you can say you dont know why people have taken offence is beyond me.
yoshi&gizmo
Alpha Buck
:roll: Hang on a minute.... but if a 4ft hutch has a run attached AND has a cover to stop the water getting in.... then whats the problem?? :shock: I am confused.... I think in my own personal opinion [which so many of us like to give on here] That is alot better than putting one or two bunnies in a 5 -6ft hutch with no run.
I feel all rabbits should have access to a run. i think thats what it boils down to at the end of the day. No standard size hutch allows a bunny to run around and be crazy like they love to do. So therefore after taking a long look back through this thread i feel the rescues ARE right in what they are doing.... I know some people will disagree with this but to be honest i have gone past caring. :roll:... We all love rabbits and to me thats all that matters.
I feel all rabbits should have access to a run. i think thats what it boils down to at the end of the day. No standard size hutch allows a bunny to run around and be crazy like they love to do. So therefore after taking a long look back through this thread i feel the rescues ARE right in what they are doing.... I know some people will disagree with this but to be honest i have gone past caring. :roll:... We all love rabbits and to me thats all that matters.
