shes abusing him...what do we do?

[purplebumble]

bluebell and bertie are two frenchie housebuns whove been bonded since 1st week dec 2010.

he was the boss...and shed try and be boss but respected him. hes 7 bless him and shes on her way to being 2..both neutered.......

last few motnhs shes been humping him rotten to make him submit to her dominance...and he hasnt been able to fight back due to his arthritis..he waits for her to get off then lunges and growls and even chases her. she gets so jealous shell hump him if weve even been tlaking to him...let alone interacting with him..even if we do with them togehter as a couple.
shes made the cats health bad by attacking them all the time...since we got her....shes even caught freya before now and luckily freya escaped..poor teeny cat..she ripped out a patch of fur and made the skin sore..scratched at her and nearly bit her head and paws.

just uber territorial i guess....she was fine with bertie n merlin when she 1st arrived here..not keen on the cats tho..we thought shed settle once she realsied it was a cat n bunny love fest here.
her sister got sick about a fortnight after arriving here together...then her sis had to be pts...melrin was admitted at deaths door the next day and was hospitlaised for well over a week or so. when we got him back we took the buns with and popped him in the carrier....no probs...but when we got home she nealry killed him.....

so becasue her n bertie had bonded so tightly thinking cos of her sis dying and bertie thinking merlin had died too i couldnt seperate them..plus merlin had gotten sicker by eating berties food...and grooming him..he had a fur blockage that passed in three days bit by bit.

shes so good with bertie..cleans his back feet for him..his knickers and sometimes his hard ball of poo sticky bum. rather than let us do it. But the humpings quite savage with the bite down..harder than it ever was and harder than ive ever seen by other buns.

tonight i made the mistake of puling the poo and hurt his anal polyp...i feel awful...cried...

but also got a terrible shock when we saw all the huge raw pathces and big bite marks in his fesh on his back where shes taken a bite to hold him down to hump him. Its been making him miserable.....and poos responsible for a few of the squishy poo attacks..i know his arthritis makes it diffcult for him..but hes showing signs of stress.
hes really sore.....and having a very low immune system with his pasturella and seizures...and arthritis....im worried sick..years ago this kept happening between him and his wifey bif.....it ended up with her biting him daily...to keep the pecking order..loved himt he rest of the time...bit his face and eyes and nose usually though...humped him twice in her life...she was a little bun:shock:
But he got very depressed supporting her and her fears 24/7 and having to go to vets every time with her and stay with her...and her agression and bullying.
we got a 3rd rabbit to change the dynamics and it did..bif bullied her too..and it took a 4th bun into the group to be a bonded group...which fell apart with new years fireworks orund here...bif hated fireworks...made her lose it for days at a time...and shed unbond herself all the time.

berties a laid back old soul....he likes warmth...cool..comfort..sleeping...fusses....and food esp mint and parsley and basil..fresh of course.

but hes very down...hes a mess....im worried sick..these bites are massive....big at least as a 50p piece....bigger most of em.

weve cut the fur short to see the wounds and keep an eye for infection.......but hes very sore...will bathe it later and put dermisol cream on it..that stuffs magic..even cured my raw skin from sweat rash under my scratchy bra on the hottest few days this year!

but its not going to stop her biting him several times a day...sometimes several times over one bite.

i dont want to split them as he does love her and vice versa..but it cannot go on like this

 

[purplebumble]

i think i want to try bonding the three little single buns to them both....phoebe is the only bun to give bluebell what for with no injuries..bluebells shocked by this rebellious rabbit who actually kept head butting her!!
lilys a teny old lady and would be killed in seconds by bluebell but would go for her throat anyway..and merlin always wanted to love bluebell and stil loves bertie..was bonded to phoebe for a few week sbefore she kept attacking him and had to be split up.

im wondering if the dynamcis changes so fast and theres enough distraction for bertie...to escape the abuse...btw the three little buns love him if it would put bluebell in her place...maybe even stop abusing the cats as the little buns will chase the cats if they get playing iwth them or dylan wont stop washing them......but no nastiness and malice like bluebell....the cats n buns wash each other..play togehter etc....bertie misses the close relationship he had with the cats...hes never stopped missing salem kitty since he died and dylans the nearest thing to a salem hug and cuddle....

bluebells stopepd that....and its uspet them all....but they carry on. Maybe if the cat mates bunnies could show her its not just bertie who gets on with the cats and theyre no harm....perhaps itd help there too.

i love her to bits but get so angry and uspet sometimes.and the state berties in...im fuming dont mean to be but i am..i get why she does it..but its not the point.

help guys please...

 

[nessar]

If blood is being drawn on a regular basis then it needs to stop. Something needs to be done. Sorry got a bit confused by your post, who is bonded to who? I thought just bluebell and bertie at first but then you mention how all these other rabbits are with bluebell?

 

[Gemmapookie]

Sorry Im abit confused from your post Can Bluebell see/hear/smell the other buns? If so it could be referred aggression shes showing :wave:

If it cant be rectified I think they definatly need to be seperated, for the sake of Berties well being

 

[purplebumble]

omg sorry...three little buns live seperately upstairs ..phoebe and lily in my room...merlin in nikkis room.

bluebell and bertie are bonded together.. and live free range in the lounge downstairs...they have a huge dog crate with bedding in it in front of the radiator which is a great help for a cold arhtritic old bunny. so they get hot they can move..or the rad isnt on unless hes cold or the house is cold.

theres no start to the problem i guess...maybe when shed had surgery to remove a weird lump on her back/shoulder earlier this year....now shes the boss.

i had to remove her a few times as he collpased with his bad leg/hip...whilst she was humping him.

the bites are purely a hard bite down to hold him still.like all humping buns do..whether its neutered buns fighting to be boss..or uneutered buns breeding like rabbits!

but shes got quite nasty..i guess maybe its cos he gets stressed and wants to move away or chase her..but he cant until she lets go of her grip.

shes not feeling threatend by merlin....or the girls..the scents everywhere and shes seen them..had to share space with them caged up when our ceiling collpased and we spent 4 days at my mums aross the road.
no...even garden time..shes never bitten down as hard as this as bertie was able to throw her off and chase her...now he cant...and shes turned pretty nasty in how hard she bites down and holds him down.

shes a doe...always territorial......

id like to see if trying to bond them as a group perhaps or the bunny/bunnys most likely to bond as a group would help bertie..and help her...she wont be relying solely on bertie for reassurance when she hears a sudden noise from outside...or the dogs next door are going nuts.or bloomin fireworks. shes an odd bun.

if i let bertie mix with the other buns..hed bond with phoebe and merlin right off...lily might not relsih phoebe as phoebes a bully...thats why phoebe can handle herself round bluebell...in the garden..and once upstairs when bluebell escaped up there as id left the gate open to clean up some cat peuk

i cannot leave bertie alone...hes a bunny who needs other bunnies....and his cat mates. But i cant let her injure him like this..even if its not her intention too..its a side effect of her holding him down and still.

ive had bertie bond to and rebond to 5 partners since 2006 1st sept. Hes a bit narked at first then just the odd scuffle...or in several cases....8hrs...bonded.

its not easy is it

 

[nessar]

I would either bond them into a group in the hope that some of the pressure is taken off bertie and her bullying is spread out, or separate them and bond him to one of the more submissive gentle other buns.

If he has open wounds from constant humping and the humping is making the arthiritus a lot worse then I think you have to act, even if that means separating them, as putting pressure on arthiritic joints can cause permenant damage.

 

[purplebumble]

thank you hun....i needed advice from someone whod understood my rambling posts

yes his arthritic leg n hip is what worried me....ive had to pull and push her off because of it.

i odnt want to stress bertie out with bonding..maybe i should bond the others the hard way and just let them settle with bertie after...no i know....gotta do it....and yes id hope a group would take the pressure off of bertie..and i do worry how bluebell will cope once the poor old fella gives up his fight against his health probs and meds side effects...

i think after hes recovered form his blood test tuesday....bonding it will start.....or i will have to pen her off....its so sad...but its got to be sorted...he cannot take much more of this neither can we...its so upsetting....

maybe i shoild get a huge giant buck whos laid back likes cats n other buns and would tell her to shut up and be nice! hed pin her down...see how shed like it!!

phoebe says shell give it a go....

i wonder how many owners end up with this dilemma of a bullying demanding obssessive bunny partner making the other bun ill.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Debbie, I am dreadfully confused.

Please could you post *brief* details of exactly who is bonded to who and what you are actually asking advice about.

Please dont get upset or cross with me, but your posts are so hard to decipher and I really want to try to help

I do agree with nessar that for now at least you need to separate Bertie as he does sound as though he is in a bad way

 

[parsnipbun]

you have to separate - we had a similar situation with some buns that came to us as a 'loving pair' and 20 percent of the time they were loving - the rest f the time he humped her stupid - and she was thin and miserable and as she got iller from the depression it caused he did it more and more - we split them - rebonded each separately with other buns and they are both SO happy now.

Really this is only going to get worse.

It sounds very much like he needs to be alone indoors with some tlc for a couple of months maybe to get over this and build up strength and THEN maybe think about a new partner.

 

[RubyTed]

I agree with the above. You really need to separate them. It's extremely unfair for Bertie and is just going to make his health worse. She's causing him proper harm. Neither can be happy in the bond if she feels she has to be so territorial and he is constantly in pain.

I really don't see how a group is going to help as she's shown such aggression to the buns you'd like her to bond with.

Even if she's "used" to the smell of the other buns she still might feel threatened by them. Could some uterine tissue have been left when they spayed her? She seems to act like an unspayed doe.

 

[nessar]

Debbie, I am dreadfully confused.

Please could you post *brief* details of exactly who is bonded to who and what you are actually asking advice about.

Please dont get upset or cross with me, but your posts are so hard to decipher and I really want to try to help

I do agree with nessar that for now at least you need to separate Bertie as he does sound as though he is in a bad way

Thought I'd answer as it seems Purplebumble hasnt seen this yet, and I think I've got the gist of it...Purplebumble will have to confirm this....

Bluebell is bonded to Bertie, they are both frenchies. Bluebell is a bully and is constantly humping him, and causing 50p sized bites on his neck. Bertie is ill with arthiritus and snuffles and various other things, and its being made worse by the stress of the bullying. He cant get away from her when she is humping him anymore because of his arthiritus, and has collapsed several times under her weight. This isnt the first time Bertie has been bullied in a bond.

There are 3 single smaller buns upstairs, who it seems Purplebumble has bonded with Bluebell and Bertie before? Phoebe is dominating and has/would put Bluebell in her place, and is a bully in a bond. Merlin seems to love everyone. Lily is very old and possibly fragile? but will possibly stand up for herself?

Bluebell the bully also attacks the cats, and stresses them out, the cats before loved the rabbits.

And Purplebumble is asking what to do about Bluebell and Berties bond, she preferably doesnt want to split them as they seem to rely on each other, and is considering adding some or all of the singles to the bond, in an attempt to dilute the bullying or put Bluebell in her place. But she wants to avoid stress for Bertie either way.

 

[Beau Belle]

My opinion: separation is the way forward. Bertie's physical and mental health must come first in this case. The poor bun probably can't relax at all... I feel vey sad for him.

 

[purplebumble]

the worst thing is..when she got ill each month and was admitted...and then when she had the lump removed...he thought shed died and the stress made his pasturella flare up..high fever and all

im between a rock and a hard place.

i dont know if any uterine tissue was left behind or if its a side effect of whatever killed her sister and had made her ill each month till there was a lump removed thatd come up overnight literally.

all the buns are rescue buns...well bertie was eventually adopted by me but he wasnt a rescue bun..just needed a different home and saved out bifs life as she was dying of a broken heart.

i have bonded diff buns and used different methods...and would ideally love to have a bonded group running round the house with the cats and other buns....and keeping bertie company...and bluebell on her toes.

yes i guess thats a non possible thing too.

bertie has a blood test on tuesday at vets..i need the vet to check his wounds.

 

[purplebumble]

thank you nessar.....jane im useless at direct shortness...when im all over the place too..emotions running high over this.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

thank you nessar.....jane im useless at direct shortness...when im all over the place too..emotions running high over this.

For now I would separate Bertie as if he already has open wounds things can only get worse if you leave them together.

Also, my personal opinion is that bonding all of them into a group when Bertie is so frail is a non starter, it really is.

I also think that attempting to bond a group of Rabbits and also integrate all of them with several Cats is just not an option. Even if the group did not include Bertie. If you are poorly with you epilepsy or depression and you have to rest in bed how will you supervise all of them ?

I know that you are having a very hard time at the moment, so why not just leave things as they are for now, apart from separating Bertie from Bluebelle.
In a perfect world Bunnies would all have a bonded Rabbit friend of their own, but it is just not always possible. I have SIX single Rabbits here at the moment. They cannot be bonded for various reason. I am not happy with the situation, but right now there is nothing I can do about it.

I hope that Bertie gets on OK at the Vets, have you cleaned his wounds up ? With his Pasteurella he will be at a very high risk of abscesses.

 

[KarenM]

I really feel for you and can only repeat what others have said really. If it was me, I think I would split Bluebell and Bertie.

I know that there is always talk on here about how all bunnies should live in pairs etc, so you may well feel like they should stay together, but life isn't black and white and sometimes breaking a bond is the best thing to do for both bunnies. Bertie sounds very poorly and his ill-health could well be contributing to Bluebell's behaviour problems, as perhaps Bluebell can sense that something isn't quite right.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. x

 

[Rhianna]

You know where I am if you need any help with Bertie, Debbie?

Would probably do me good to distract me from my broken heart and make me feel useful.

Even though my cats and bunnies live together happily the buns still need their 'safe' place where Pippa especially can't get to them.

I still have Bumble on his own as it is too cold now to bond an outdoor bun inside.

I'm hoping to have a big, bonded group of nine but it will have to wait until I move and have had a huge shed and aviary built. I'm running out of neutral spaces in my current house.