Rabbits falling out!

[Tony&Pamela]

Hi

New to the forums and had some good reads already, with some very helpful opinions and advice for rabbits

We currently have 5 rabbits, all boys. We bought 2 of them around April time named Dennis & Thumper. We got these from Pets at Home. We were told they were from the same litter but when we went to take them in for their first jabs it became apparent Thumper was 4 months older than Dennis. They did get on when living together but Thumper would always want to hump Dennis. When the time was right, we had Thumper snipped, and he was on his own in an indoor cage for a week or so, so that his wounds could heal. However, when we tried re introducing him with Dennis, they started fighting. A lot of jumping, scratching, screaming and biting! So we pulled them apart and put them in seperate cages. We have tried a couple of times since to introduce them in the garden however they just keep going for each other.

The other 3 boys we have we got about a month ago and they live fine for now, although one of them is developing a lot quicker than the other and we're worried that when we get him snipped, will we have the same issue re introducing them?

We are moving house soon when the sale goes through, and i will be building a nice big house & run in the garden for the 3 boys and also for Dennis & Thumper. However, i'd rather only have to build the one house for Dennis & Thumper rather than one each. Will they be able to live together again? Why would they have fallen out?

Dennis is due to have the snip within the next couple of weeks and then about 4 weeks after that we are going to try and introduce them together again. I dont like the idea of them living their lives alone

If anyone has any advice or experience with this sort of issue, please help

Thank you

Tony & Pamela.

 

[Preitler]

Oh, my, keeping bucks together can be a problem, I don't know much about neutered bucks myself, what I've heard it may actually work sometimes.

What I know about are young bucks getting into puberty, and that's simple: Keep them apart. I had to euthanise 3 bucks last year because a litter matured earlier than expected, from one day to the next it was deadly carnage with torn out testicles and bellies slit open. I will never make that mistake again, and seperate with 12 weeks (mine are not a small breed).
With bucks, it really, really doesn't matter if they are from the same litter, that is all forgotten when they mature.

It does take some weeks (up to 6, if I remember correctly) for the hormons to stop working, and imho it doesn't help if only one rabbit is neutered, the other one doesn't know that.

Why did you get all males? I can't imagine someone recommending that...

 

[Ruthyjones89]

I know others with more advise will be along shortly but as above. You will need to separate all your males that have shown signs of fighting. Unfortunately intact males (un-neutered) can be cause a lot of damage to each other and can even kill each other. It's vital Dennis is kept separated asap until he is neutered!

With regards to your others, again you will have to get these neutered ASAP when they turn old enough. Some vets are willing to do from 16 weeks onwards and it's vital this is done as soon as possible and the rabbits are all separated! Then you can try and re-bond when older. Or if they are getting along okay, get them neutered together, but again only if their are no signs of fighting. If any sort of fighting breaks out, you should separate asap

If you have any questions. Feel free to ask x

 

[Preitler]

May I add a question here? Why havn't I read anything about "early neutering" of bucks on US rabbit boards? Here (Europe) it is done between 8 and 12 weeks, before they mature, it has the advantage that they never learn buckish behaviour and the chances that they get along with other bucks is much better (although they may have problems understanding what unspayed females want) , and that they don't need to be seperated for weeks, which can make bonding difficult.

This site says that groups of early castrated males and one later castrated normally get along fine.

http://www.kaninchen-info.de/kastration/fruehkastration.html

 

[Ruthyjones89]

Hi, I don't really know the ins and outs, but believe it's due to the risk of the anaststic. Anastetic on a young bunny can have many risks and when rabbits reach 16 weeks, some vets believe this is when their system becomes strong enough and can cope okay. But I know some vets do neuter from 12 weeks, but 8 weeks is far too young and still a baby!

Hope this helps x

 

[Tony&Pamela]

Hi all
Thanks for the replies. We were told by pets at home man (when we went to get the next 3 rabbits after having 2 already) that we should get boys as we won't be able to integrate girls and boys together!! That is why we now have 5 boys.
Dennis & thumper used to live together but are currently separated until Dennis has the snip. Thumper had his about 6 weeks ago. PAH have refused to do Dennis's at the moment as he has only just reached 5 months and apparently they don't do it before this age!!

The other 3; Patrick, dusty and floppy, are all the same age (around 3 months) and are living together. They were fine but Patrick is clearly developing quicker and is starting to get quite violent towards the others. Floppy mainly. Dusty also humps floppy a lot. I guess that we will need to separate these now until they all have the snip, but PAH say they don't do this before 5 months so now I have to wait 2 months and then another 4-6 weeks after the operation before I can try and re introduce them and in the mean time I need to have 5 separate cages for them all. This can't be right. Is pets at home feeding me wrong info??

 

[Ruthyjones89]

Unfortunately with pet shops this can sometimes be the case, they are correct that they obviously won't mate but obviously wasn't aware that most of the time boys need to be neutered to get along with each other as otherwise they are very hormonal towards each other and likely to fight for dominance which is what they are doing. I understand you got your bunnies from pets at home, but other vets may be willing to neuter them earlier for you? So if you could get dusty and floppy neutered sooner at all, these two could possibly remain together if they are remaining to be okay with each other. But if you would rather stay with petsathome then yes it's likely both will also need to be split too.


Personally if Patrick is also showing signs of aggression towards the others, you are best separating but maybe still keeping them so they can see each other if this is possible?

 

[Preitler]

Hi, I don't really know the ins and outs, but believe it's due to the risk of the anaststic. Anastetic on a young bunny can have many risks and when rabbits reach 16 weeks, some vets believe this is when their system becomes strong enough and can cope okay. But I know some vets do neuter from 12 weeks, but 8 weeks is far too young and still a baby!

Hope this helps x

Actually, it's not unusual here, the risk may be somewhat higher, but in absolute numbers it is still very low. I guess that depends solely on the vet who does it, and how much experience he has.

 

[Tony&Pamela]

Hi
Thanks again. I'm going to speak to another vet tomorrow to see if they are willing to do floppy Patrick and dusty at this age. Dennis is 5 months now so PAH will do this within the next 2 weeks. He is just finishing a course of medicine (he has breathing problems) and if all was okay then the snip will be booked in.
I really hope they can all manage to live together one day, that would be ideal!

 

[daphnephoebe]

We had our girls spayed early. (Phoebe was 12 weeks, Daphne 16 weeks - approx 10 - 12 weeks earlier than most vets will do it).
Many vets I speak to will neuter bucks as soon as their bits have arrived.

I'd suggest calling around vets and seeing who will neuter at a younger age, point out any behavioural issues you are having (that's why Phoebe was spayed so young).

As already said, hormones can take 6 weeks to subside after neutering so do not attempt to bond before this time. Their relationships are built on trust, and a major fight can make bonding in the future near on impossible.
Once your other bun is done & the hormones have subsided maybe look into them living side by side for a few weeks before bonding so they can get used to being near each other without having any fights/injuries.

 

[Tony&Pamela]

That sounds like a good idea, thank you. I'll be giving some vets a call today to see what we can do. If they will do all 3 boys now that would be ideal. I can then keep them all separate for now and then close living after 6 weeks. Just in time to integrate them for when we move house!

Thanks again