Persistent ear infection - U/D Smudge & Harley gone

[parsnipbun]

Hope loads of advice coming your way . . there are quite a few of us with ear problem buns . .

 

[Treasuretroll]

I know!!! I can't believe it!!! I wish I had been on here from the start!!!

Have been in contact with Jacks Jane. got some helpful stuff.

Spoke to vet. have given Harley some metacam. Vet can't remove plugs tonight. Updating her in morning, but dot think plugs will be in for long!!!

Thanks again for your o going help!:thumb:

I hope your bun is still doing well???

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Does Harley have nystagmus (flicking eyeballs) and if so do they flick from side to side or more up and down ?

Does it happen all the time or just when he moves his head in certain ways ?

It sounds as though it is peripheral vestibular disease which is usually caused by bacterial otitis media/interna. EC usually causes central vestibular disease. It is possible that changes in the bullae may not have been evident on Xray

Personally I would want to stop all treatments into the ear canals and concentrate on systemic medication-antibiotics, non steroidal anti inflammatories and Prochlorperazine (Stemetil)

 

[Treasuretroll]

Hi guys!!

Took Harley to vets. She has managed to remove plugs without sedation!!!! Harley is far far better!!! Wouldnt eat this morning, but is now eating!!! Be home soon with her sister!!

Vet has also said nothing to be done to or put in ears....waiting for cultures!!! Carrying on with Septrin and metacam as advised until updated vet Monday. I think she is inclined to change ab and I will def say to her about what you suggested....especially if it is working!!!!!!

Thanks again guys for being there!!! My other half not into bunny matters!!!

Jacks Jane - if you try to ease head sway by holding her close, I did notice last nite side to side movement of eyes, But notnoticeable at any other time so far.....have said to vet it has to be in middle ear and she is inclined to agree...

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Hi guys!!

Took Harley to vets. She has managed to remove plugs without sedation!!!! Harley is far far better!!! Wouldnt eat this morning, but is now eating!!! Be home soon with her sister!!

Vet has also said nothing to be done to or put in ears....waiting for cultures!!! Carrying on with Septrin and metacam as advised until updated vet Monday. I think she is inclined to change ab and I will def say to her about what you suggested....especially if it is working!!!!!!

Thanks again guys for being there!!! My other half not into bunny matters!!!

Jacks Jane - if you try to ease head sway by holding her close, I did notice last nite side to side movement of eyes, But notnoticeable at any other time so far.....have said to vet it has to be in middle ear and she is inclined to agree...

Sounds as though the Vet is on the ball

Dont be surprised if the culture comes back as 'no bacterial growth' again though.....................

 

[Treasuretroll]

To top it off, let her out with smudge when home, making her feel better. When I turn around and the check back she's squished next to smudge on top of BBQ!!! She then tries to turn around and falls off!!!!!!!!! Seems ok, but has shook here up...will keep eye on her!!

Looks like she's determined to kill me with stress and worry!!!!!

 

[Treasuretroll]

No culture results yet....

Since plugs taken out and no drips whatsoever put in vast improvement!!!!! I really think being back on Metacam has helped!!!

Swaying only seems to be when eating, trying to give meds, when caught off guard or when picking up.... Circular movement minimised aswell!!

And, bless her, she seems to be coming around to taking mess without being bunny burrito'd!!! Yay!!! So proud of her... Makes life soooo much easier fir us both...bet se plays up in morning now I've put this!!

May have to change AB's as Septrin doesn't seem to be doing anything....

Will give Vet your suggestions Jacks Jane, and then hopefully we will start making better progress....

Touch wood, smudge no worse so far either!!

Thanks again for your continued help guys! :thumb:

 

[parsnipbun]

Glad things are a little better . Whenever we put anything IN Parsleys ear the ear reacts badly and pus fountains up . . bringing with it the plugs or wicks, . .

Canaural was a nightmare as it was sort of oily and inflamed the whole thing, wicks just acted as pus-plugs (urrrggghhh),

however we have found just GENTLY cleaning the worst with a cotton bud, once a day plus putting in two drop of Genticin twice a day really helps (he is also on long-term top end dosage Baytril . . . another thing to check if you end up with Baytril - that you do get maximum dosage).

I know there is meant to be a 'problem' with long term Genticin (Jacks jane will be able to explain I suspect) and especially as Parsley has burst his ear drum - but it really really helps him.

 

[Treasuretroll]

The other vet I saw Saturday mentioned that Genticin...but was reluctant to prescribe anything for down the ears at all....sue to both ear drums being burst...apparently it can be toxic and deadly to use topical ABs on burst drums...

I have to agree, Canaural is very oily! I might see if we can switch Smudge though to something else like that, as 2 weeks on Canaural doesn't seem to of done anything!

Will have to wait and see Friday...would
Like to get to a stage where they don't have to have ears flushed every week....slow progress is better than none though!!

 

[parsnipbun]

The other vet I saw Saturday mentioned that Genticin...but was reluctant to prescribe anything for down the ears at all....sue to both ear drums being burst...apparently it can be toxic and deadly to use topical ABs on burst drums...

I have to agree, Canaural is very oily! I might see if we can switch Smudge though to something else like that, as 2 weeks on Canaural doesn't seem to of done anything!

Will have to wait and see Friday...would
Like to get to a stage where they don't have to have ears flushed every week....slow progress is better than none though!!

Yes Genticin can cause issues - but we have been fortunate with Parsley.

I really would work with your vet towards ditching canaural - it just seems to form an oily plug and hold in the puss and not let any air etc in to clean the ear.

 

[Treasuretroll]

Will definitely do!!!

Thanks!
X

 

[Treasuretroll]

hey guys!:wave:

Well....Smudge & Harley has their eyes flushed again on Friday! Smudge's ears were less inflamed, but had more discharge than the previous week! Harley's ears were slightly better, still inflamed, but vet said there was less discharge removed than previous week... but that there was improvement from 2 weeks prior!! However, he has said that progress is slow in both!!!:roll:

Smudge is now also onSeptrin orally, which she HATES!!!!, and is no longer in Canaural. We are trying Maxitol....AB & anti inflamatory. Seems ok at the moment...

Harley still on Septrin & Metacam...definitely nothing for in the ears!

Both have lost a small amount of weight equal to not eating for a day....so Vet not overly concerned...Smudge chunky monkey anyway!!!

Both seem happy, playing & eating. Harley's Head Swaying is still present, but not so bad. Loss of balance is far improved & when I hold her, the loss of balance & head swaying is minimal.

Different vet next week, but she was present when treated Friday, and she usually treats my buns anyway! she is Bunny mad like us!! Will be handing her list Jacks Jane gave me, with a view to changing AB's, as progress too slow on Septrin....

Fingers crossed!!!

 

[Treasuretroll]

frustrated!!!!:evil:

Dropped off buns, foned at lunchtime to check on them. told both fine, ears fairly full up again...what's fairly full up!!!???

told to pick up at 4pm. went to collect and didn't even get to see vet this time!!!! well miffed!!! nurse did discharge......

smudge has lost no more weight, harley has put a small amount back on...which is good!

apart from that...none the wiser!!!!:evil: and different vet to what i was told dealt with my buns, which isnt a prob, but i dont know if she saw them last wk, so i am no wiser as to whether or not the inflamation has gone down?? less disharge than last wk??? smudge's ear drums ok?? harley's any better???!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also, vet does not want ear drops being used on smudge now either....why????

I have been given something called Lacto B9 to give them....and thats going to be a blooming nightmare!! When collecting, told one satchet per bun, can be mixed in 100ml of water & feed to them....like they're going to willingly take 100ml each of water straight off.....no chance of that with smudge! instructions say can be sprinkled on food?? when foneing vet to clarify, rather than just getting her to speak to me, im put on hold, then told 1 satchet disolved in 100ml of water between them both will be fine????? paste obviously not possible??? not convinced..... :?:?:? they have to have this for 5 days, the septrin for 5 days.... er hello, 5 wks later & septrin not working!!!!!

up unitl now, ive been ok with what vet has said, but today...ive had enough....speaking to a nurse is not helpful!!!

apologies for rant!!!:roll::roll:

anyone had to use this stuff before & got any advice on best way to give??

vet last wk said that if improvemnt did not speed up, would suggest lateral resection??? cutting away cartlidge, which i am dead against!!! just change the AB to one that works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Vita]

How frustrating!

You don't sound happy with what the vet has done.
Would you consider taking the buns to a different vet?

 

[Treasuretroll]

How frustrating!

You don't sound happy with what the vet has done.
Would you consider taking the buns to a different vet?

It's not so much not happy with the vet, it's the fact that rather than seeing the vet, I get a nurse who isn't fully informed!

I was expecting to vet first as always, but the nurse didn't book me a discharge appointment with vet, and when I foned back up to speak to vet, the nurse still didn't put me through to her!

Will have to wait and see. Have got 2 small water bottles with mixtures in...hopefully they will work...if not, will try sprinkling over food as per instructions.

 

[parsnipbun]

personally I would definitely be looking for a different vet - one who is a specialist in rabbits - and poss even one that will refer to a specialist in ear infections . I am sure you know this but ear infections can get very very serious if left with inadequate abx.

Parsley's has caused his face to be half paralysed and (because we id not know he even had an infection till that happened) we only just caught it before it broke through the ear/brain barrier - even now it has done irreperable damage to the bone tissue in that area . .


It is really very important to start treating it aggresively with a range of suitable abx asap (Has the vet even cultured it?)

 

[Treasuretroll]

Harley has had 2 cultures, both showed no bacteria
Smudge has had 1, no bacteria

The only reason we found harley's infection is because the right side of her mouth went up...

the referring vets said bulla was not infected axcording to xrays, and they recommended Septrin & Canaural!!

Both buns seem happy enough, harley's swaying and circles seem to be minimising everyday, and she is still on metacam.

I am going to phone to speak to actual vet on Monday and express how p$>*ed off I am aswell!!!

 

[parsnipbun]

sorry . . i should have re-read all the thread.

we did have a CT scan (or MRI I dont know which is which really - but involved being placed in a long tube and having 'sectional' images repeated) of Parsleys ear which revealed the location and extent of the problem. Much deeper than expected.

 

[Santa]

vet last wk said that if improvemnt did not speed up, would suggest lateral resection??? cutting away cartlidge, which i am dead against!!! just change the AB to one that works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I totally understand why you're frustrated, but unfortunately with many rabbit abscesses especially in inaccessible places like ears it's not as simple as finding an antibiotic that works...sometimes these things are incurable especially if the infection is somewhere that the antibiotic cannot get to the heart of the infection. It is not uncommon for serious ear infections to not clear up fully, sadly...I know of people whose bunnies have been under the best vets in the country (literally, I am not exaggerating) and the infection has been kept under control, not cured.

I wouldn't completely rule out a lateral resection if the infection is in a place which means it might work, although you would obviously need to be confident that your vet could do it effectively - have they done it on buns before with success, for instance? Bunnylover177 on here has had a similar op done on her buns where aggressive antibiotic treatment by an excellent vet had not resolved the problem, and she was astonished at the difference it made to her buns quality of life. You can read about it here: http://forums.rabbitrehome.org.uk/showthread.php?290730-Solution-to-outer-ear-abscesses

Good luck with whatever you decide xx

 

[Treasuretroll]

Thanks...I know my vet us reluctant about it....I think they will probably refer to us to swindon for that - vets now referrals! If we have to do it....

Currently though, they are both doing well.. Participating in the rally 500!!! :lol:

Even Harley is steaming around the garden, binkying away...which she hasnt done so energetically for a long time...several months!!! very amusing!! Still can't hold her for long though..she gets very agitated and squeaks/grunts at me to put her down!!

Smudge, luckily, does not seem to be too affected by it all...except for te trips to the vets and when she had to have meds....

Both drinking water with Lacto B9, so hopefully that will help. Septrin starts again weds!!

Back to vets fri, hopefully they will be able to go straight home afterwards...and not have ears flushed!!!

While they both seem themselves, eating and playing, I will avoid surgery! Plus, Harley's head swaying has really minimised at the moment! Only seen one slight sway today, not really seen any swaying in last couple of days...usually when she doesn't realise ur watching it may happen, but hardly at all!!! She is still on Metacam aswell, which I really believe is helping!!! I hope we can start to reduce it soon... to nothing, but I'm not rushing it!!!

Thanks to u all for your help and advice...I will keep u updated!!