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Neighbours complaining?

You have to be careful with litter for rabbits, some of the wood cat litter is safe but, some isn't - there is a proper rabbit litter called 'yesterdays news' but it is expensive and very heavy even heavier when wet.

I've tried everything and I am really impressed with Megazorb, there is another thread around which links to all the stockists of Megazorb as it would seem a lot of equestrian suppliers are selling it, there should be one near you, I'll try and find the thread and copy the link over.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...68555&spn=7.338686,14.040527&z=6&source=embed - the list is down the left hand side of the map.
 
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You have to be careful with litter for rabbits, some of the wood cat litter is safe but, some isn't - there is a proper rabbit litter called 'yesterdays news' but it is expensive and very heavy even heavier when wet.

I've tried everything and I am really impressed with Megazorb, there is another thread around which links to all the stockists of Megazorb as it would seem a lot of equestrian suppliers are selling it, there should be one near you, I'll try and find the thread and copy the link over.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=e...68555&spn=7.338686,14.040527&z=6&source=embed - the list is down the left hand side of the map.

Even Yesterday's News is perfumed so I will not use it for my rats (bunnies have newspaper and hay so not an issue for them). I buy Paperlit paper pellets from a company called Finacard which is 100% paper and unperfumed for the rats :wave:
 
Even Yesterday's News is perfumed so I will not use it for my rats (bunnies have newspaper and hay so not an issue for them). I buy Paperlit paper pellets from a company called Finacard which is 100% paper and unperfumed for the rats :wave:

:shock: I didn't know that, I'd assumed it was safe as it is marketed specifically for buns etc - it's not very effective perfume either - I thought it smelt rank when it was wet bleurghhhh and weighed a ton :lol:
 
:shock: I didn't know that, I'd assumed it was safe as it is marketed specifically for buns etc - it's not very effective perfume either - I thought it smelt rank when it was wet bleurghhhh and weighed a ton :lol:

Oops, sorry just realised I'm talking about Biocatolet (sorry, been a long day) but yesterday's news is alse unsuitable for rats as it contains woodshavings. Both are probably fine for buns though especially if they live outside :wave:
 
I didn't like the weight of the wooden stuff. Buying a bag was backbreaking and carrying the then cage bases up and down the stairs with the stuff in was horrendous. I switched to megazorb, then made them a NIC enclosure with litter trays. So much easier. Haven't gone back since and I think it's about two years I've used megazorb and have never so much as thought about changing.
 
I didn't like the weight of the wooden stuff. Buying a bag was backbreaking and carrying the then cage bases up and down the stairs with the stuff in was horrendous. I switched to megazorb, then made them a NIC enclosure with litter trays. So much easier. Haven't gone back since and I think it's about two years I've used megazorb and have never so much as thought about changing.

No I think my buns prefer it, come the summer I will change them everyday - there is next to no odour then :wave:
 
Oops, sorry just realised I'm talking about Biocatolet (sorry, been a long day) but yesterday's news is alse unsuitable for rats as it contains woodshavings. Both are probably fine for buns though especially if they live outside :wave:

:lol: I thought it seemed odd given the Hayexperts sell it - I can't imagine it would get sold by Lisa if it was dodgy :lol:
 
No I think my buns prefer it, come the summer I will change them everyday - there is next to no odour then :wave:

We get next to no odour (I hold my head over the litter trays to check :oops:) doing it 2-3 days. I think cos we have pretty big trays it helps as there is more megazorb to soak it up.
 
I have just read this thread through and whilst I am an intelligent person...simply because I read wood shaving is bad rather than researching I just immediately stopped using it (even though its only under the hay in a litter tray) but I tried megazorb for months and with my guinea pigs, I find it unbelievably dusty! it really makes me sneeze...am I the only one?! I now use another type of 'dust free' horse bedding which truely is dust free, Im happy with that and it lasts way longer, I was going through megazorb at a rate of knots - only have 4 bunnies and 2 guinea pigs but it didnt last long :) anyway, off the point - daft neighbours, bet youre glad they have moved! :lol:
 
I did find it dusty to begin with. But that's cos I wasn't putting enough hay over it and was using a corner tray so Mischa would dig up the hay and then expose the megazorb. Cue sneezing from him and me. Now I use a thick layer of hay on top and the megazorb is covered.

You can see it in the background in this photo...

_IGP1251-vi.jpg
 
I did find it dusty to begin with. But that's cos I wasn't putting enough hay over it and was using a corner tray so Mischa would dig up the hay and then expose the megazorb. Cue sneezing from him and me. Now I use a thick layer of hay on top and the megazorb is covered.

You can see it in the background in this photo...

_IGP1251-vi.jpg

Yeah I only notice dust when i scoop it from the bag into the tray and it's in the shed so i just do that bit outside, I give it a good shake around outside aswell to release any residue and it's fine. Nothing like this can ever be completely dust free because of the nature of the product - the packaging process etc - I do think there is some misunderstanding occuring about woodshavings here - they release harmful chemicals when wet not just dust when they are dry, if you go back to the beginning of the thread and read prettylupins posts about it she explains what happens when the woodshavings are wet.
 
Yeah I only notice dust when i scoop it from the bag into the tray and it's in the shed so i just do that bit outside, I give it a good shake around outside aswell to release any residue and it's fine. Nothing like this can ever be completely dust free because of the nature of the product - the packaging process etc - I do think there is some misunderstanding occuring about woodshavings here - they release harmful chemicals when wet not just dust when they are dry, if you go back to the beginning of the thread and read prettylupins posts about it she explains what happens when the woodshavings are wet.

I use an old dustpan to scoop it and do it outside in the garage. I never notice a huge amount of dust unless I'm near the bottom and cos I scoop it and then just push it around to make a layer it's not disturbed much. If that makes sense. :oops:
 
Wood Shavings
The Problem with Cedar and Pine Shavings as Pet Bedding and Litter
From Lianne McLeod, DVM,

Cedar and pine shavings are commonly available pet bedding products. However, there has been much discussion over the safety of these beddings among exotic pet owners and advocate. Are these beddings really dangerous for the animals for which they are intended?

Cedar and pine became popular for pet bedding material because they are good at controlling odor and have some natural insecticidal properties (they kill or repel bugs, especially cedar). These softwood shavings smell nice due to the volatile compounds (e.g. aromatic hydrocarbons, phenols) that are given off. Unfortunately these compounds have been implicated as a potential health risk, especially with regards to respiratory problems (asthma, inflammation, allergic responses) and changes in the liver.

Many of the studies on wood toxicity have actually been conducted on humans, who are exposed to these woods and their by products in the wood product industry (such as those who work in lumber mills who are exposed to lots of wood dust), and these studies often compare the incidence of disease in workers in the wood product industry compared to other workers or the average population. Obviously, this is a much different type of exposure compared to our pets.

Studies of laboratory animals have shown fairly dramatic changes in liver enzymes on animals housed on cedar bedding. This in turn can effect the metabolism of drugs including anesthetics, but there is not much information on a direct link between these changes and disease or clinical symptoms. The changes in liver enzymes can be problematic for research animals, but the impact on pets hasn't really be studied, as far as I can tell.

Bottom Line
Based on the studies that implicate the compounds from cedar in allergic and respiratory diseases as well as the impact on liver enzymes, it seems it may well be prudent to avoid cedar shavings as bedding or litter, especially since alternatives are available.

With pine shavings, the problem isn't as clear cut. Pine shavings emit similar volatile compounds as cedar, but the risks aren't clear. It is thought that heat treating pine shavings may reduce the levels of aromatic hydrocarbons that have been implicated as a potential concern, so that products such as kiln dried pine are safe (many pet products are heat treated).

Since the information about the problems is circumstantial and hasn't been evaluated in the context of health problems in exotic pets, I'm hesitant to make firm recommendations. That said, it has been my personal choice to avoid cedar; I have used pine in the past, though recently I have been trying out many of the alternatives available on the market instead.

Many Other Options Available
The concerns over pet bedding safety seem to have led to a bit of an explosion of alternative bedding products on the market. In terms of wood shavings, aspen is a good option that is widely available. There is an increasing number of other litter or pellet type products on the market now, which are appropriate for use as bedding or in litter boxes. The best option depends on the type of animal and what the litter is used for. Some of the harder pellet products might be better used in the litter box of a ferret or rabbit, while the softer types of bedding/litter are good for the smaller pets that need their cage lined. However, even some of the pelleted products can be used as a substrate/bedding for rodents, especially as cage liner with some softer bedding provided as a top layer.

Some of the newer alternative include paper-based pellets (absorbent and hold together so the wet parts can easily be scooped out), litters made from a variety of other organic materials (e.g. cherry/maple wood, aspen wood or bark, grain by-products, wood pulp fibers), and even paper strips (which are soft, but not very absorbent). Another often overlooked alternative is alfalfa pellets (e.g. rabbit food) which are cheap and fairly absorbent. For a compilation of some of the alternatives that are fairly readily available depending where you are see:

Alternatives to Cedar Shavings - a concise look at some alternatives with links to manufacturers where possible.

References and Recommended Reading for the OP

Evaluation of Cage Micro-Environment of Mice Housed on Various Types of Bedding Materials - a study published on the American Association for Laboratory Animal Science site, evaluating the environment, including ammonia concentrations, in cages with various beddings (surprisingly, CareFresh Ultra, my favorite bedding, resulted in the highest levels of ammonia).
The Toxicity of Pine and Cedar Shavings by Debbie "The Rat Lady" Ducommun (scroll down to near the bottom to find he product list). An excellent list of products (including materials), with manufacturers and contacts and comments can be found toward the bottom of the page.
Cage Hygiene, Healthy Litters, and Beddings by Debbie Ducommun - more general article also touches on the dangers of cedar and pine but also on cage hygiene in general, and goes into more detail on some bedding alternatives.
Litterboxes and Liver Disease by Marinell Harriman - a discussion of the anecdotal evidence that pine shavings used as litter caused serious liver enzyme elevations in rabbits, and a discussion of alternative litters.
The Truth About Pine Shavings by Corinne Fayo - a critical look at the studies on cedar and pine shavings and their tenuous link to clinical problems in small pets

http://www.petwebsite.com/rabbits/rabbit_woodshavings.htm
 
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Vicki. Great post but it's all well and good people ignring advice when it comes to animals but with me being allergic to phenols causing blisters and the smell of any mammal pee on wood shavings making me heave I really can't undertand why people use them. Can't be bothered with all the sweeping up either. Really don't get why people defend the use of them so much.
 
Thanks for the info also. For me I completely understand the issue surrounding wood shavings, I was simply throwing in there that I had found another really good option, I think it depends where you live, its from a local horse supplier and Im so impressed with how dust free it is. Ie once you have swapped substrate (off the shavings), then there are a few options out there :)

I wouldnt use wood shavings as I hate the stuff. Its just I got my guinea pigs from a very well respected rescue centre on here and shes still on wood shavings so despite all the info in the world some just prefer to go on personal experience, hers being 40 years and many thousands of rabbits and no problems that shes knows of I guess? But for me any risk is a risk so theres no point using it from my point of view :) they get loads of hay yes its just scooping it and placing it in the trays to stop it being dusty, I have that one sussed! as I still use it for my syrian hamster :)
 
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