Is This a Reason NOT To Vaccinate Against VHD? U/D Vet Called

[Adele]

Would people think it was acceptable if that was one human killed to vaccinate 6000 people?
Or your own pet rabbit to vaccinate (not save) 6000?


QUOTE]

It is totally unpalatable.
The problem is, by saying we should not vaccinate the bunnies on these ethical grounds, it is like saying we should instead kill the bunnies in our own care by leaving them exposed to deadly diseases:?
Whichever way you look at it, bunnies will die. All we can say is LESS bunnies will die because the vaccinations are available and protect the masses.

 

[Azraelm]

Would people think it was acceptable if that was one human killed to vaccinate 6000 people?
Or your own pet rabbit to vaccinate (not save) 6000?


QUOTE]

It is totally unpalatable.
The problem is, by saying we should not vaccinate the bunnies on these ethical grounds, it is like saying we should instead kill the bunnies in our own care by leaving them exposed to deadly diseases:?
Whichever way you look at it, bunnies will die. All we can say is LESS bunnies will die because the vaccinations are available and protect the masses.

Sorry, I'm not in any way saying people should not vaccinate their bunns- they need to make that decision for themselves. Until knowing about this I would have thought people were quite irresponsible for not vaccinating.

As I said earlier, I voted 'not sure' in the poll. I don't think its a black and white issue- currently Audrey is vaccinated against VHD and of course I do not in any way want to put her at risk, but my own views and morals are at a conflict here.

 

[cannonwoman]

Would people think it was acceptable if that was one human killed to vaccinate 6000 people?
Or your own pet rabbit to vaccinate (not save) 6000?


QUOTE]

It is totally unpalatable.
The problem is, by saying we should not vaccinate the bunnies on these ethical grounds, it is like saying we should instead kill the bunnies in our own care by leaving them exposed to deadly diseases:?
Whichever way you look at it, bunnies will die. All we can say is LESS bunnies will die because the vaccinations are available and protect the masses.

totally agree adele.
And as vicki said `personal experiences also tend to change your views`!

Su.x

 

[Phill]

As one who has had a VHD outbreak two years ago i have to say i will always vaccinate for VHD dispite the rabbits killed to make the vaccine. I feel it is a small price to pay for the number of lives which have and will be saved. VHD is an awful disease and if you get it ina stock of un-vaccinated buns it will rip through them killing one after the other. We lost 10 rabbits from 23 and was without vaccine and after vaccine, as the virus had already been caught by some. Also vet ect saying babys under 8 weeks can not die from VHD are talking rubbish! We lost 3 of our babes and they were 7 weeks old.

 

[LurcherGirl]

One issue which I have touched on briefly, but that no-one is picking up on is that vaccinations are not always safe either. Over-vaccinating or just vaccinations in general can cause a variety of problems! To start off with in some rare cases they actually trigger the disease in an animal. Then they can cause various auto-immune diseases. This is becoming quite a big issue in dogs, and I am sure it is no different in rabbits. Who is to say that all the digestive and respiratory problems and various other common bunny illnesses are not sometimes a result of (over-)vaccination because the immune system is not strong enough anymore to fight these problems? Let's be clear here, vaccinations are a burden on the immune system, hence the fact that animals with compromised immune systems should not be vaccinated.

There is so much information flying around about vaccinations at the moment (especially re dogs) that the issue is far from black and white even if the source of VHD vaccine is ignored!

After educating myself about vaccinations as much as possible and considering that I have a dog with major allergy issues, I have decided to only vaccinate my dogs when necessary. They get yearly titre tests and only get shots if the titres show a lack of antibodies (and before anyone says anything... I know that titres only show the presence of antibodies and not necessarily actual immunity, e.g. memory cell response, but titre is the only option we have at the moment to "measure" immunity).

As my friend said the other day: "It was so much easier when I didn't know about all this, I could just vaccinate my dogs once a year and everything was fine and I was happy! Now, after having all this sometimes conflicting information, I don't know what to do for the best..."

How right she is! Ignorance really is bliss at times!

Vera

 

[Bavarian Bunny]

I think this is the case with most medicines. Every medicine has certain side effects, but there are still not enough studies about how different medicines interact inside the body. Sometimes bunnies get pumped full of all sorts of antibiotics, painkillers, antiinflammatories, etc., and no one really knows if that could cause any harm because two or three of the medicines might interact and cause damage. We just do what we think is best to help our pets.

 

[Azraelm]

Does the VHD vaccine truly stop a rabbit getting VHD if they come into contact with the disease? As we are well aware, the myxo vaccination only seems to slow the disease and increase the chance of recovery.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Would people think it was acceptable if that was one human killed to vaccinate 6000 people?
Or your own pet rabbit to vaccinate (not save) 6000?


As Tree said earlier in this thread, there is also the issue of HOW the lab rabbits die.

In Carasblanco's post it states:



Any thoughts on how they kill them?

Actually I find the idea of one human sacrifice to protect 6000 no different to one Rabbit to protect 6000.
If the statistics are as stated then I will continue to Vaccinate. I *personally* think it to be irresponsible not to do so when I have 45 Rabbits on site.

As far as the Euthenasia goes then as unpalatable as it is 'necking' is the most likely method as to inject any drugs/gas may effect tissue samples I would have thought.

Janex

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Does the VHD vaccine truly stop a rabbit getting VHD if they come into contact with the disease? As we are well aware, the myxo vaccination only seems to slow the disease and increase the chance of recovery.

In the UK the Myxo Vaccine is NOT made from the Myxo Virus. It is made from the Shorpe Fibroma virus. Protection relies on cross-immunity. The VHD Vaccine is more likely to be effective as the vaccine contains the EXACT virus, not one that *can* cause an immune response sufficient to give cross immunity

Janex

 

[elve]

One issue which I have touched on briefly, but that no-one is picking up on is that vaccinations are not always safe either. Over-vaccinating or just vaccinations in general can cause a variety of problems! To start off with in some rare cases they actually trigger the disease in an animal. Then they can cause various auto-immune diseases. This is becoming quite a big issue in dogs, and I am sure it is no different in rabbits. Who is to say that all the digestive and respiratory problems and various other common bunny illnesses are not sometimes a result of (over-)vaccination because the immune system is not strong enough anymore to fight these problems? Let's be clear here, vaccinations are a burden on the immune system, hence the fact that animals with compromised immune systems should not be vaccinated.

There is so much information flying around about vaccinations at the moment (especially re dogs) that the issue is far from black and white even if the source of VHD vaccine is ignored!

After educating myself about vaccinations as much as possible and considering that I have a dog with major allergy issues, I have decided to only vaccinate my dogs when necessary. They get yearly titre tests and only get shots if the titres show a lack of antibodies (and before anyone says anything... I know that titres only show the presence of antibodies and not necessarily actual immunity, e.g. memory cell response, but titre is the only option we have at the moment to "measure" immunity).

As my friend said the other day: "It was so much easier when I didn't know about all this, I could just vaccinate my dogs once a year and everything was fine and I was happy! Now, after having all this sometimes conflicting information, I don't know what to do for the best..."

How right she is! Ignorance really is bliss at times!

Vera

I agree - before I got bunnies 2 years ago I did a lot of research about the vaccinations, so that I could make my own mind up. I think factors such as overcrowding, changing homes, bonding, poor diet and poor history all make an impact on an animal more than passing diseases. A healthy and happy animal will fight disease, including cancerous cells, better than one under stress.

It is an unfortunate fact that providing a routine, unchanging environment for animals is boring - but it's as important for their health, if not more so, than vaccinations. Yet people think nothing of stressing their rabbits out - there's no debate about that. All I ever see is people changing everything about for their rabbits constantly - but they worry about vaccinations and cancer. There is a need to see things from the rabbits perspective - stress of any kind is bad for a prey animal.

 

[Jack's-Jane]

Just had a call from the Vet I collected the post VHD Limp Data for.
He is being VERY helpful. He tried to contact the factory where the vaccine is made but was told it is CLOSED all of August for the Summer Holiday.
Sooooooooooo nice Vetty man has asked a 'Fort Dodge insider' (why to I have an image in my head of a man in a stetson :lol: ) to come forward and make a statement.
Mr nice Vetty had no idea how the vaccine was derived :shock: He is now going off to read the RWA US info.................

He has promised to get back to me when he hears from the 'Forte Dodge insider'

To Be Continued...............

Janex

 

[carasblanco]

why to I have an image in my head of a man in a stetson

That's my image too, but also with Curious George's Dad's entire outfit

Its an important point that Mandy makes about humans not killing one for the protection of thousands. Also, vaccine makers do not kill a cat or dog for the direct production of vaccines, as far as we know, so why was it initiated for rabbits, the 3rd most common pet? If the statistic is right from the RWA article, it probably is a Joe- Public number that had to be determined by the company (presumably Fort Dodge), and does not include the batches that have failed or have been tossed, or any other averages. I imagine that there probably are a lot of other statistics on this that are proprietary, and the true ratio would be worse in actuality.

For those of you who wonder why I post in this topic--contrary to what you read, VHD is all over the US and one of my vets thought my bun China died of it 6 months ago because he had all the symptoms. It is legally required to be reported to the gov’t, unlike in the UK, but people are afraid of gov’t eradication techniques, within a predetermined radius of outbreaks, especially since our neighbor Mexico did so with ‘success’, instead of choosing to procure vacs.
From my position too, this has all been very educational & I know now not to sign lobbyist forms for just the vacs, but to be more specific and campaign for syntheics ones, like what was mentioned in the RWA article.

 

[Kittykat23uk]

I had always assumed that rabbit vaccines were tested on rabbits. But then so are human medicines and I take those. I wish there were an alternative. But I will continue to get my boys vaccinated either way.