Hay alternatives?

[Ryo_the_rat]

Hi all!

Some of you may remember me starting a thread this time last year when i found mites(flour mites) on our bags of hay-we had had a bad infestation of these previously and so had the mite identified by the council as being flour mites and ever since then i check all animal foods and hay VERY well before storing it away(i have pretty bad OCD) Well we tried a few places and ran into problems with all. Then we tried PAH online and since the summer we have been getting it like this no problem. However our last order came with those bugs again! So we yet again went on the hunt to try a new shop. The order arrived this morning-same problem! definately seems the outbreaks go hand in hand with the weather changes. I do have one more online shop i could give a try but im starting to give up on hay altogether As i said i have pretty bad OCD and these bugs really set it into overdrive so i just cant live with something like that in the house.

We have had the bunnies eating some burgess supa forage that we got from our vets(no bugs!!) and i wondered if this could be a long term solution? If we were to feed them something like the supa forage/herbage and maybe even get some hay cakes etc, would this be a good alternative to hay for them? obviously i dont want to put their health at risk because of my horrible OCD but if i can figure something out that keeps me sane and the bunnies happy and healthy then id prefer it lol

Just to say the bunnies obviously also get fresh veg every day, a handful of mature SS between them and most days they get dried herbs and sometimes dried fruit. If anyone can recommend any other alternatives that might be suitable id really appreciate it!

 

[Kermit]

What about dust free hay?

 

[loppy ears]

Would Western Timothy hay be ok?

 

[GrahamL]

What about dust free hay?

DFH is good quality stuff, ive only had 1 bag, but it was good!

 

[Ryo_the_rat]

Thanks for the replies but as i said id really prefer to try an alternative to hay. I think most people wouldnt even notice them as either their hay is kept outdoors or they wont have had an infestation like i have so wont be holding their bags of hay an inch away from their face to look for tiny moving bugs As i said though it definately seems to be a problem with hay, perhaps because its a food source for the insects? either way id rather not have it in my house anymore as its not doing my health any favours So yes if alternatives to hay can be given id rather go that route! i just wonder if things like burgess supa forage and herbage are ok to be given in replace of hay? As i said i could also try hay cakes but obviously want them to have something similiar to hay too as they are used to that.

 

[GrahamL]

Thanks for the replies but as i said id really prefer to try an alternative to hay. I think most people wouldnt even notice them as either their hay is kept outdoors or they wont have had an infestation like i have so wont be holding their bags of hay an inch away from their face to look for tiny moving bugs As i said though it definately seems to be a problem with hay, perhaps because its a food source for the insects? either way id rather not have it in my house anymore as its not doing my health any favours So yes if alternatives to hay can be given id rather go that route! i just wonder if things like burgess supa forage and herbage are ok to be given in replace of hay? As i said i could also try hay cakes but obviously want them to have something similiar to hay too as they are used to that.

You can't NOT feed hay in a normally healthy bun who can eat it. It should be making up 85% ish of their diet.

There aren't really any alternatives, unless you go for a totally wild based diet, which will take some researching (read thumps_ thread about thumper :shock: and 'Foraging 2011') which involves bramble leaves, dandelions, grass and other wild weeds. You need to spend weeks gathering food etc.

Burgess hays are fine however, but they are still very dusty towards the end of the bag and will be VERY expensive.

I think perhaps you are over-worrying regarding the bugs in hay. All wild buns will come across bugs at some point and if they go out in the garden, then they'll meet bugs

 

[Kermit]

Thanks for the replies but as i said id really prefer to try an alternative to hay. I think most people wouldnt even notice them as either their hay is kept outdoors or they wont have had an infestation like i have so wont be holding their bags of hay an inch away from their face to look for tiny moving bugs As i said though it definately seems to be a problem with hay, perhaps because its a food source for the insects? either way id rather not have it in my house anymore as its not doing my health any favours So yes if alternatives to hay can be given id rather go that route! i just wonder if things like burgess supa forage and herbage are ok to be given in replace of hay? As i said i could also try hay cakes but obviously want them to have something similiar to hay too as they are used to that.

Quite on the contrary I would probably notice bugs in my hay, i have done before with Burgess Coltsfoot and Plantain. I also have had biscuit beetles (rather like flour mites) in the house from pet food, so i know what size i am looking for.
I personally buy dfh as i feel that it is much less likely to have mites. I store it in the house.

 

[loppy ears]

You can't NOT feed hay in a normally healthy bun who can eat it. It should be making up 85% ish of their diet.

There aren't really any alternatives, unless you go for a totally wild based diet, which will take some researching (read thumps_ thread about thumper :shock: and 'Foraging 2011') which involves bramble leaves, dandelions, grass and other wild weeds. You need to spend weeks gathering food etc.

Burgess hays are fine however, but they are still very dusty towards the end of the bag and will be VERY expensive.

I think perhaps you are over-worrying regarding the bugs in hay. All wild buns will come across bugs at some point and if they go out in the garden, then they'll meet bugs

She says she has OCD so will over worry I think you need to look for a hay where bugs are less likely, is it possible to freeze hay? Graham is right your bunnies do need hay so you will need to find a way to overcome the bug problem

 

[GrahamL]

She says she has OCD so will over worry I think you need to look for a hay where bugs are less likely, is it possible to freeze hay? Graham is right your bunnies do need hay so you will need to find a way to overcome the bug problem

My apologies, somehow i missed that sentence!

However - you can find hays that have a much lower chance of having bugs, but there are no guarantees. DO you have an outhouse or anything where you could keep the hay?

 

[Ryo_the_rat]

Telling me i am over worrying and that i need to "overcome" my problem tells me that OCD isnt something that is being understood here. I state in both of my posts that i am looking for an alternative to hay that can be given that would give them what they need without me having to get bags of hay that will cause flour mite infestations in my home. I have read through a fair amount of threads on this forum today about people whose bunnies wont eat hay etc and many have been told that grass is exactly the same thing and that if they are eating grass they dont need hay. I also asked about the forage/herbage as i can get this from my vets bug free and it seems this would be a fine alternative too so i could have done without the negative comments.

If OCD was something i could just overcome or stop over worrying about then it wouldnt be OCD!! Do you think i like feeling this way? I adore my bunnies and they have the best of everything and i hate that getting something as basic as hay has become such a problem for me now because i cant find any shop that doesnt have the same problem at certain times of year. I wish i didnt have to check every bag of hay and food that i get, and even more so i wish that these bugs werent so common on the hay, but how many people would live with infestations of insects? My guess is not many, so please dont tell me i am over worrying when this is something that my brain wont allow. despite my problems with OCD i have still continued to try and get hay from every place i can think of, knowing there was a chance i was bringing that problem into the house. Its just that i have now ran out of places to try As i said i literally have one online store left to try but im not holding out much hope. The only reason i started this thread was to see IF there were any alternatives. I had assumed the forage, dried grass and hay cakes would be an ok alternative but just wanted to check with other bunny people, not made to feel like im witholding something from my bunnies that they need.

Oh and i have previously looked into the possibility of freezing hay, but its not the freezing thats the problem, its drying it out after:? And no i dont have an outhouse or anything-my bunnies are indoors anyway so even if i kept the hay outdoors it would still need to be brought in to feed them.

 

[GrahamL]

i've already apologised, i did not see the OCD sentance, as i've already stated. I know enough about OCD and social phobias and social anxiety disorders, my OH suffers horribly and has done for over 10 years, so i do wholeheartedly understand and will apologise again.

That said, i've mentioned the Burgess products as being fine, but they will cost you a lot.

I've also mentioned about the possibility of keeping the hay outside, however, obviously keeping the buns inside means at some point, the hay needs to come in. Unfortunately, bugs are going to be a problem occasionally, but i can't believe you are seeing so many of them, thats just horribly unfortunate and sucks massively.

I dont really know what else i can suggest - buns need hay, your illness means you can't handle the hay. It's a catch 22 situation and i genuinely wish i could help, but i can't.

How about your buns going outside? Is that a viable idea?

 

[helen01]

I had a problem with mites from the p@h hay a few years ago for my guineas, it was horrible:shock:

I have bought some from our p@h last week and it was fine, I do check mine each time I buy it as well. I would imagine its not all hay from p@h so could you let them know the last batch they had was a bad one and change brand temporarily?

 

[Amy104]

If it makes you feel better you can freeze hay fine. I do it all the time for my gerbils. Just defrost before feeding - It doesn't go soggy or anything.

 

[Carrie14]

What about a farm bale? I have never found any bugs in them. Could it be because the others are wrapped in plastic so the bugs can't escape before they get into your house?

 

[Ryo_the_rat]

i've already apologised, i did not see the OCD sentance, as i've already stated. I know enough about OCD and social phobias and social anxiety disorders, my OH suffers horribly and has done for over 10 years, so i do wholeheartedly understand and will apologise again.

That said, i've mentioned the Burgess products as being fine, but they will cost you a lot.

I've also mentioned about the possibility of keeping the hay outside, however, obviously keeping the buns inside means at some point, the hay needs to come in. Unfortunately, bugs are going to be a problem occasionally, but i can't believe you are seeing so many of them, thats just horribly unfortunate and sucks massively.

I dont really know what else i can suggest - buns need hay, your illness means you can't handle the hay. It's a catch 22 situation and i genuinely wish i could help, but i can't.

How about your buns going outside? Is that a viable idea?

Thankyou very much for the apology and im sorry that your OH also suffers with similiar problems I also suffer with anxiety and agoraphobia and ironically its mostly my furbabies that keep me sane, despite the problems im having with the bunnies hay! lol It does suck-i want to make sure my babies have everything they need to keep them happy and healthy but the hay problem is driving me crazy! Im glad the burgess feeds are ok as an alternative to regular hay, i think i will have to go with that for now and perhaps when the weather changes give PAH or one of the other shops a chance again. Oh and no the bunnies wont be going outdoors-bad enough im having to change their hay without changing their home too. I wouldnt have my bunnies living anywhere else, no matter how bad it got, they are part of the family

Helen01 sorry you too had a problem with mites in the hay, it is horrible, really sets my skin to crawling! and yes the same happened to us with PAH, we were buying from the store and then when we were checking them over one time spotted some crawling. after a little break we tried again with their hay online which as i said was fine until the last delivery came. I know high humidty makes these flour mites breed faster so the weather certainly seems to be the cause of the outbreaks again.

Amy104 thankyou for letting me know that, i have never tried freezing it myself but when had read about it previously it seemed it drying out after defrosting was a problem. I would need to get myself a big freezer to start doing that though-mine just about holds our food:lol: but its good to know that its another alternative if we cant find another way around this so thanks!

 

[Ryo_the_rat]

What about a farm bale? I have never found any bugs in them. Could it be because the others are wrapped in plastic so the bugs can't escape before they get into your house?

I got my hay from a farm for a while a few years back, but they brought in a different type of bug problem-cant win! lol though to be honest id rather deal with the brown weevil type bugs again then these mites which seem to breed until theres thousands of the things :shock: I think the plastic bags dont always help, but sometimes the bugs are even on the outside of the wrappers-perhaps because there are often small holes in the bags of hay? the order i got this morning i literally opened the box and didnt even have to remove the bag of hay from it because you could see them straight away:shock: they really are very tiny things, but when you have dealt with them as many times as we have and they have such a negative effect on your mental health your eyes seem to know just how to zoom into them:shock:

 

[Babsie]

I know you said you've tried some on-line suppliers, but have you used SPH - they do Oxbow Western Timothy in various sizes; you could perhaps try a smallish bag from them?

 

[Ryo_the_rat]

I know you said you've tried some on-line suppliers, but have you used SPH - they do Oxbow Western Timothy in various sizes; you could perhaps try a smallish bag from them?

I actually havnt bought from them for quite a few years-i used to get the box of timothy hay from them but when Stumpy, Timmy and Errol came along they turned their noses up at it:roll: Gabriel enjoyed it though! Do you buy from them? Im assuming if you do you have never had a problem with mites or other insects? could be worth a try again!

Im just about to order some bags of herbage and forage now. I get my cats food and the bunnies food from one online shop all the time and have never had a problem with insects with them, but i have never bought anything like hay from them yet. Figure its worth a try with them this time though. It will be more expensive keeping them on that, but its worth it if its bug free! plus the amount of money i have lost by having to throw away countless bags of infested hay makes hay buying for me expensive anyway, atleast this time it might be worth it-fingers crossed!

 

[Babsie]

No, I've never had any problems at all with SHP: my buns love their Oxbow Western Timothy (which has always been in 'good condition'), the service is excellent, and Sue (who you could speak to if you felt happer doing that) is extremely helpful. Hope you get sorted.

 

[Ryo_the_rat]

No, I've never had any problems at all with SHP: my buns love their Oxbow Western Timothy (which has always been in 'good condition'), the service is excellent, and Sue (who you could speak to if you felt happer doing that) is extremely helpful. Hope you get sorted.

Thankyou very much for that, sounds like it would be worth talking to Sue to see if she has ever had this problem. I dont blame any of the shops as i really dont think it is anything that can be controlled and i dont suppose most people would notice it or let it bother them as much as it does me. I really hate having OCD

Unfortunately the order of herbage and forage arrived this afternoon with the same problem But i will be near a PAH on saturday so im going to have a look in and check their stock. Im also at the vets on monday as poor Molly needs a lump removed from her face so i will be able to get them some stuff from there if we dont have any luck in PAH. Unfortunately i do think this time of year most places will have the same problem through no fault of their own, think its just the nature of having hay! but i will keep trying!!