frantic help needed - broken bond??? UD: BIG step backward >:(

[liv862]

hi all, apologies in advance for needing so much help lately!!! i posted a couple of days ago cos my mummy bun Maisy had broken her toe. basically due to her wearing a cast all three buns moved into the house on monday, and they have free range of one rabbit-proofed room.

today the two boys (Dusty and Rolo) started fighting, initially just chasing and fur pulling but then this avo had a proper fight up on their hind legs. theyve never fought since they were all neutered and had a very easy re-bonding after, probably cos theyre from the same litter so theyve always been together.

i can only assume its to do with being taken to a new area, perhaps to do with there being more space in here, maybe theyre getting over-protective and possessive over their mum cos they know shes injured etc etc. i wonder if i might have triggered it in the first place when i took just Dusty to the vets with Maisy on monday cos i couldnt fit them all in the travel cage, so Rolo is jealous/Dusty is territorial of Maisy - does that sound ridiculous?

its weird cos Dusty has always been the dominant male of the two but both fights today he has lost so hes being all sulky and wont go near Maisy even! have separated the boys but both are fine with Maisy so will be taking it in turns to swap them round, in case one claims the hutch as their own and gets angry with bunny "intruders" later.

i dont know what to do with them cos i kno it wont be good for one to be back in their old territory alone cos theyll claim it, cant put both boys out there in case they fight plus Maisy will be lonely, and she cant go back out there for a while yet cos of the stairs and the weather weve had of late!!!!! so im screwed whatever i do!!!!

please please please can anyone give advice on what to do with these guys???? im terrified that their lovely family dynamic is going to be ruined and cos we dont have space for another rabbit setup here my parents will make me give one of them up!!!!!!! is there any chance that wen their life goes back to normal next week the boys might re-bond? or does that just not happen after fights?

sorry for the long post im just a bit desperate and upset with the whole thing, who would have thought a little broken toe could make so much mess

thanks for reading, liv xxx

 

[Hele]

Oh no! Erm if it were me I would move all three of them into a much smaller space in a new area for a few days and see if they calm down.

Good luck! :wave:

 

[Gemmapookie]

Yes I think you need to go back to basics and confine them to a smaller neutral are until they're properly rebonded. I'd keep all 3 together if possible (as long as you can keep an eye on them) as separating them might cause their bond to weaken further.

Good luck :wave:

 

[Vegan_Bunny]

Yep, back to basics, I'm afraid. Neutral, small space, with nothing but the basics in (litter tray, water bowl etc, all neutralised.) Since your poorly bun is indoors, now would be the best time to do this. You can also keep an eye on them 24/7..which you will have to, I'm afraid. So get your blanket downstairs and get the couch ready to sleep on. :lol:

 

[liv862]

fudge. that makes a lot of sense, but is gonna be tricky! ok im gonna hav to search for something to block off an area of a different room then, this is wen i wish i had emergency equipment like a puppy pen or sumthing. mite go hav a look in p@h 2moro c if i can find sum proper stuff, and for tonight im gonna hav to improvise! :lol:

thanks for the help, will let u guys kno how its going 2moro xxxxxx

 

[parsnipbun]

I can lend you a puppy pen if you need. Where are you?

 

[tulsi]

Best of luck with the rebonding of your fantastically cute adorable fluffy rabbits.

 

[liv862]

tried putting them together a couple times in various places since i got back from work and its been going awfully!!!! all ive achieved is getting myself scratched and bitten too - i dont know what to do!!!! should i be separating them during each fight? or shud i let them have it out? i cant bear watching it theyre so vicious and only a few days ago they loved each other so much i just dont get it!!!!!!

please please any help would be so appreciated i am completely out of my depth. ive never really done any bonds before, the first time they came together so easily it barely counts, and my other bun was a solo bun. i am finding this so upsetting cos its all my fault, they were fine and then i moved them and now ive ruined everything

sorry im a bit hysterical rite now, barely slept, worked an eight hour shift just worrying bout them and then came home to witness two of the creatures i love the most in the world turn on each other, then their mother, then on trying to separate them turn on me completely too!!!! and my dads already said the dreaded phrase - why dont u think bout finding another home for one of the boys how could i possibly choose between them???!!!

and parsnip bun -

I can lend you a puppy pen if you need. Where are you?

yes PLEASE!!! i live rite in the centre of cambridge, ill pm u my mobile number now thank u so much!!!!

rite now, pathetic tearful rant over. thank you all again, and again please help me i am desperation central!!! xxxxx

 

[Gemmapookie]

Ok, you are stressed and frantic so now is not the time to bond. Your buns will be picking up on your stress, so you need to be calm and level headed (easier said than done I know!) Have a cup of tea, some food and relax for a bit, and try and get a good nights sleep before you try again. (I hope that doesn't sound bossy )

Do you have any gardening gloves you can use to protect yourself? I found these useful in calmly separating any fights without me or anybun getting hurt. I got bitten by my angel Timmy once when he had a fight with Max, I'm sure it was just an accident and I'm sure your buns didn't turn on you. I've heard that some people also use brooms to break up fights.

Let them hump and even a bit of fur pulling is normal, but full blown fights must be separated. Now they've fought they will automatically go for each other next time you put them together so get ready to separate them calmly and gently each time.

Offer distractions like a big pile of fresh hay that they can sit next to each other and nibble together. Avoid litter trays or anything with their scents on though.

I feel for you, bonding can be so stressful, you wish you could just talk to them and make them understand!

Good luck :wave:

 

[liv862]

ok that makes a lot of sense, im definitely gonna hav to leave it for 2nite cos all of us are worked up now, especially me lol!!! and i feel a bit dumb for not thinking of the gardening gloves that is totally the way to go, i could hav kept a chunk of my hand if id thought that thru a bit better!!!! :lol:

one question tho - how on earth do u separate fighting bunnies calmly and gently?? i get why the way they leave one another must be very important, but they are so damn quick and wen rolling around like one ball of noisy, flying fur i can only grab one by going in quick nd sharp if u see wot i mean?

theres no opportunity to separate them before a fight at the mo cos the second they spot the other they lunge, theres no waiting around. i put them behind wire so they cud see each other but not touch, and they did lots of displaying and dancing up and down the wire, a couple of attempted strikes then settled down so i think i mite try finding an arrangement that lets them see each other but that isnt in their old hutches as that one was.

ahhhhh bunnies!!!! so much work!!!! xxxxxxxx

 

[Gemmapookie]

Oh I totally understand you need to be super fast when they go for each other. The calmness is less to do with what you do and more to do with the energy you give off. If you panic in that moment they will sense it. It's amazing his much they pick up on, my Mimi even gets PMT with me every month :shock:

Another thing I would say is don't immediately separate them after a fight. Only separate (if you need to to sleep, work, eat etc as most people do) on a good note when all is calm so that that's the experience they remember. Just move them apart and try again, eventually they'll hopefully get bored or tired with fighting and relax a little, maybe lie down or have a nibble of some hay. That's the time to end the date.

 

[liv862]

sounds terrifying but im prepared to try lol!!! i really hope they will settle down after fights, havnt seen it happen yet but they must do at sum point surely? im gonna need to seriously work on my nerves, this will probs sound totally daft but i keep thinking every time i bring them together they must feel im putting them in the amphitheatre to face their enemy and fight for my entertainment!!!! very silly i kno, but yes clearly i need to work as hard as they do... xxxxxx

 

[Gemmapookie]

sounds terrifying but im prepared to try lol!!! i really hope they will settle down after fights, havnt seen it happen yet but they must do at sum point surely? im gonna need to seriously work on my nerves, this will probs sound totally daft but i keep thinking every time i bring them together they must feel im putting them in the amphitheatre to face their enemy and fight for my entertainment!!!! very silly i kno, but yes clearly i need to work as hard as they do... xxxxxx

Aww that doesn't sound silly atall, you totally feel like you're torturing them and just want it to stop!!

I've only done 2 bonds and did the dating method with both as I felt it was less stressful for all of us to have a break from it. Some people think you shouldn't separate atall once they're together though, which I totally understand but it's just not doable for a lot of us unfortunately.

Good luck Hun :wave:

 

[liv862]

thanks luv ill do my best not to get worked up about it, no promises tho!!! :lol: will at least try to hide it from the buns, tho i must curse their timing - they decided to fall out a week after i quit smoking!!!!! its taking all my self control not to just walk down the shop and smoke myself calm again lol!!!! :lol: but no, if i can resist thru this i can resist thru anything :thumb:

thanks for all your help!!! xxxx

 

[liv862]

ok spent all day yesterday after last hysterical post doing loads of research and i think ive come up with a plan.

hav put the two boys back in their old hutch but with a new double chicken wire barrier down the middle (two layers, 1 inch gap between layers so they cant get each other no matter how hard they try). my thinking is that the fighting all started cos their routine was changed so putting them back in their comfort zone mite help. hav been putting all food etc next to the barrier on both sides so that they are forced to eat together cos thats always been their main bonding time as a family.

am going to swap them round every nite so they cant claim one half as their own and theyll have to deal with the others smell. during the day each will spend half the day in the garden and half the day in the house with Maisy so she doesnt get too lonely. then starting off with just one a day we will be doing bunny dates with Maisy in the middle as our bonding tool cos shes a great influence on them.

we tried a very quick one last nite cos i had both parents home so multiple hands to help, and Rolo started off grooming Maisy but as Dusty was next to her ended up grooming him too :thumb: after a while of grooming Dusty did make one attempt to charge at him but was immediately stopped, put back on the other side of Maisy and we stroked them all some more, gave them sum food each and after a couple of mins to forget the incident put them back outside. will be trying another short date today (solo this time - eeek) but am gonna wait till bout 12ish cos thats wen their usual nap time is so am thinking thatll help :lol:

so yeah, does this plan sound ok? anything stand out as being a bad idea? oh and also wanted to ask, i read in a few places about putting them in the bathtub to make them huddle together, but i always thought bathtubs were dangerous to buns cos they can break a leg trying to get out???? what are your views on this?

thanks everybody, god bless RU!!!!! xxxxxxx

 

[Gemmapookie]

Sounds like a good plan to me The only thing I would say is watch out that Maisys bond with them both doesn't start to breakdown with them all being separated, she needs to always be involved aswell. Maybe put her back in the hutch aswell and swap her over from one boy to the other?

I tried the bath tub with one of my bonds and found it just stressed the buns too much x

 

[liv862]

will be putting Maisy back in with them as soon as her stupid cast comes off but unfortunately for now its not an option, poor thing cant go up nd down the stairs or get it wet so the hutches are unsuitable for the mo hopefully itll be coming off on monday if the toes healed enough, so wont be for long.

hav developed quite a hatred of that cast, if it wasnt for that i wud never hav moved them and none of this wud hav happened :evil: but she clearly hates it too, shes being trying to pull it off since she got it, and has chewed several small holes in it :lol: poor little Maisy!!!!

xxx

 

[Gemmapookie]

will be putting Maisy back in with them as soon as her stupid cast comes off but unfortunately for now its not an option, poor thing cant go up nd down the stairs or get it wet so the hutches are unsuitable for the mo hopefully itll be coming off on monday if the toes healed enough, so wont be for long.

hav developed quite a hatred of that cast, if it wasnt for that i wud never hav moved them and none of this wud hav happened :evil: but she clearly hates it too, shes being trying to pull it off since she got it, and has chewed several small holes in it :lol: poor little Maisy!!!!

xxx

Oh of course, I'd almost forgotten about her cast being the culprit in the first place!

Sending tons and tons of bonding vibes, keep us updated xxxxxxxxxxx

 

[liv862]

no date yesterday as came back from work stupidly late, but just had one now and am pleased to report it went very well! :thumb: had all 3 on the bed nd sat so they were all kind of squished together with my legs around them, that way they were forced to snuggle wen they first saw each other there was a little bit of lifted tails but i nipped that in the bud lol!!! thats wen i kind of squished them together so they had no space to charge, and just stroked the boys and spoke to them rlly softly.

only gave it bout 5-10 mins cos its such early days but Maisy was tooth purring the whole time!!!! it was so cute, i wasnt even stroking her so it must hav just been pure joy at having both her babies together with her for a good snuggle like the old days!!! shes such a sweetie i rlly hope the boys get their act together mainly for her sake cos she loves them both so much!!!

will continue to post progress, dont think im gonna giv them anymore space till the tail lifting stops wen they first see each other, dont wanna risk it developing into more!!!

xxxx

 

[Gemmapookie]

Brilliant, sounds good