Dont know how to move forward-long sorry

[silverjessica]

Hi, I'm looking for some help on what has been a very long standing problem and one which I haven't know how to address despite lots and lots of reading and researching - before I start, I am aware that the main problem has been my naivity and my fear and anxiety about the issue.

We have a 2 yr old neutered male bunny (large lop) called Silver who lives indoors in a wonderful large indoor pen. He has a lovely sweet nature, very placid and affectionate (a licker!) who likes nothing better then to curl up for cuddles in front of the TV.
Kids became bored fairly quickly and so (as I anticipated) Silver became mainly my responsibility. It was easy to see that Silver was lonely and so I ummed and ahhed and did a lot of research and got a lot of conflicting advice on whether or not to find him a friend - I eventually decided to do just that.

I approached our local rescue centre and was shown a number of neutered females, one little brown dwarf lop called Jessica (approx 12 months old) caught my eye and we had a cuddle and decided she might be a good friend for Silver.
The rescue centre sent someone to our home to 'vet' us once we'd decided to adopt her and it was here our problems began.
I wasnt home when the 'vetting' session was held but my husband told me later that the assessor had shown surprise that we were adopting Jessica as she had a 'reputation' and had been returned a number of times after adoption (she was only 12 months old ) and was even more surprised that Jessica had allowed me to hold her!

However, I'm not one to judge based on others opinions so I went back to visit Jess (whom I already felt committed to) and again she allowed me to hold and stroke her - staff at the centre told me she could be 'feisty' and had a tendency to 'wreck' her cage. Again I thought that she was being given bad press and went ahead with the adoption.

We brought her home and kept her in a seperate pen (dog crate) for the first few days - this is how the first introductions went:

Jess in her cage, Silver goes over full of curiosity, goes over to the bars and Jess sinks her teeth into his nose.
Silver in his cage, Jess out, she goes right over and growls at him and then pee's right outside his cage and keeps trying to attack him through the bars.
Introduced on neutral territory - two adults both with a water spray and a broom each. Silver approached Jess to give her a sniff - without any warning Jess sunk her teeth into Silver's face, pinned him to the floor and tried to get him by the throat -the water, the brooms nothing worked, by the time we got her off him he was bleeding and in a state of shock.
The kids were screaming, Silver didnt even try to fight back and he was terribly hurt, he had deep scratches on his back.

Jess had all the hallmarks of an unneutered rabbit, aggressive, marking territory, we were unable to get anywhere near her without her lunging and growling. Sanctuary said (when we enquired) that it was the previous owners who had said she was neutered and they dont check this out.
They also helpfully told us that they had never been able to put Jessica with other rabbits and that I should just send her back to them if it wasnt working out.

However by this time I had bonded with her and I wanted to give her the chance that she deserves.
Over time Jessica has turned out to be a fun loving, affectionate little bunny (albeit on her own terms) with bags of personality - unfortunately the rest of the family are scared of her and also havent forgiven her for hurting Silver.

Silver has become quite depressed (they are housed seperately but in the same room) and just stamps his feet all night, he has started growling at my daughter and has changed from a placid bunny to one who is quite edgy and unpredicatable. Whenever he comes out of his pen, he makes a beeline for Jessica and not in a way that seems friendly either.

Jessica on the other hand ignores Silver now and runs straight past his cage without even looking at him.

I have a huge problem which has been ongoing for the past 8 months!
I have two lonely bunnies now not one - Silver lives in a huge cage designed for 2 bunnies and Jess lives in a dog crate which should have been a tempoprary home as it's too small for her really. This set up takes over the whole room.
I can only let the bunnies out seperately and with supervision - this drastically cuts down their individual exercise time.
All work is duplicated and any exercise time needs two people to monitor (one to clean the pen and one to stop bunnies getting near each other)
None of my family want Jessica and so they refuse to help look after her most of the time.

I'm struggling to meet the needs of both bunnies and I know that neither are getting the time, exercise and attention they deserve and I feel bad about this.
My vet has reccommended returning Jessica because of the effect she has had on Silver but I love Jess and I feel bad that she keeps getting rejected. She's a lovely bun, very misunderstood and maligned and she deserves a forever home.

Jess is fearless, she loves car journeys and isnt even scared of the hoover when its switched on, I dont think stress bonding would work because Jess never gets stressed!

Can anyone think of a solution to this dilemma? I dont want to give up either bunny, they are very much a part of my family and I dont want the kids to learn that it's ok to 'discard' an animal just because things dont run smoothly,

I'm very very scared of reintroducing the bunnies but if I cant get them to live together then their future is going to consist of a further lack of adequate exercise and attention.

Am I being unfair? Is it better to let one of them go?
Am I focussing to much on how I feel rather than what the bunnies need?

Any advice/constructive criticism welcome and if you read this far then thank you for your patience

 

[hannah.mc]

Oh you poor thing!!!!!!

Have you had it confirmed that she is a she and is neutered????

If not I would get this done and also a good health check.

If she is a she and neautered and in good health I'm stumped for you.

If you've done the neutral introductions and blood has been spilt and your little boy is now depressed I don't think you can keep to sole buns can you?

I've had a failed bonding but that was my stupidity for using the garden not a scrubbed down room in doors. The two buns launched at one another and we had an hour of aggression but NO blood drawn (although one traumatised bunny mummy).

Good luck, I'm sure someone more experienced will have some more useful advise for you xxxxx

 

[William]

This sounds really difficult. I would not bond them, it could work, but I'd be afraid one would latch on again. At the same time, it sounds like they both really need a friend, and I'm guessing you can't have 4 rabbits :? I dont have any advice really but good luck on whatever you decide to do!

 

[Coineanach]

Have you had it confirmed by a vet that she is neutered? This is the question everyone will ask as it is the most important thing when bonding.

I would also be concerned that you introduced them on non-neutral territory - if Jess has got her back up about Silver from meeting in 'his' room she may never change her mind about him.

Also please bear in mind that even with the best will in the world some bunnies will not bond, as they all have their individual personalities and sometimes these clash. Some rescues will bond rabbits for you for a donation, what area are you in and someone may be able to advise one for you. :wave:

And welcome to RU :wave:

 

[Wilbur]

Jess is very lucky to have come to you. You have done really well, it have obviously been really difficult. As the previous poster said, making sure she has been spayed would be the next thing I would do. Then either a few weeks after she has been or sooner if she'd already done, I would find another resuce who would try to bond them for you. If you said where you are I am sure someone would know where there is an experienced bonder near. That's what I did with my buns and it worked really well. I was too much of a coward to do it myself!

Anyway good luck and hope you manage to sort them out!

 

[silverjessica]

Thank you for your reply.

No we never had it confirmed that Jess was neutured as the vets said they do not like to open a bunny up 'just to check' and we were also a little reluctant to put her through such an invasive procedure for potentially no reason.

Jess has settled a lot, she is litter trained, has stopped marking territory and I have learnt to respect her moods and recognise when I am invited and when I'm not LOL. - She does mainly ignore Silver now unless her comes near her cage in which case she gets very 'animated'.

I even tried to put them alongside each other seperated by mesh but they still went for it, I think they hate each other if thats possible?

The other solution I've considered is building a huge outdoor pen and have them live alongside each other but not with each other.

I wonder whether this would work? It does of course mean moving two bunnies outside who have never been outside.

 

[Wilbur]

I thought they could xray to confirm whether she has been neutered? Might be worth checking.

 

[Coineanach]

Thank you for your reply.

No we never had it confirmed that Jess was neutured as the vets said they do not like to open a bunny up 'just to check' and we were also a little reluctant to put her through such an invasive procedure for potentially no reason.

If they shave her they should be able to see a spay scar as it is so invasive :wave:

 

[Elena]

If they shave her they should be able to see a spay scar as it is so invasive :wave:

This.

This is definitely the first thing to check. If she definitely is then I personally can only see one course of action. I would personally leave Jess be. Some bunnies just don't like other rabbits sadly. If she has a bond with you then thats something and better than being in a rescue where attention is divided And I would take shadow to a rescue and let him choose a partner.

 

[silverjessica]

"I would also be concerned that you introduced them on non-neutral territory - if Jess has got her back up about Silver from meeting in 'his' room she may never change her mind about him."

Gosh I hadnt even considered that their first encounter was on Silver's territory, but of course it was, I just kept thinking about the time when they would meet face to face so to speak.

I also didnt know about about a mark being made or an xray, our vet just said she wasnt prepared to 'open her up'

 

[Tamsin]

Rabbits can tell other rabbits apart and remember bad experiences associated with that individual... so yes, in effect two rabbits can hate each other.

Rabbit's can also link experiences of more general situations together and react accordingly. For example if Jess was nervous about any rabbit approaching her territory and feeling cornered so made an attack and that made the other rabbit go away, she'll use that successful strategy again when she's next feeling nervous about another rabbit's approach. It may not even be linked just to her experiences with Silver. If she has learnt in the past at the rescue or previous homes that another rabbit approaching means something bad happens she'll react defensively to get out of the situation.

It maybe that Jess would have been okay if the first meeting had been neutral territory, but it's also possible she's had previous negative experiences with other rabbits so she's started to adopt the attack to make them leave me alone approach with any rabbit she sees.

With the above, the aggression is more lashing out because of fear to escape the situation, rather than trying to defend their territory, so neutral areas don't help.

You can work with rabbits to help reduce fear of a situation, but it's a difficult thing to do with fear of other rabbits because you can't control how the other rabbit reacts and you are putting them at risk of injury.