Bunny Cataracts - advice on options

[iiisecondcreep]

The course of Panacur will not affect anything that has already happened to the eye, presuming it was connected with E.C. anyway. I had a bun with phacoclastic uveitis caused by E.C. and although we treated her, she never regained her sight.

I know, if only it were that easy! We did the deep cleaning on days 21 and 28 last time and I was worried that it was something we'd done/not done that was the reason for him still testing positive, however I asked at the vet school and they've said that its unlikely that is the case and the chances are that its just the infection becoming active again for whatever reason. Good to know its not something we've done but frustrating none the less!

The RVC go ahead with the surgery regardless of the status of the EC.

My insurance covered all but the 'excess' (which in our case was quite a bit as Charlie is 8 years old).

I don't think we'll cancel the surgery if he tests positive a second time, my own vet and the vet school both agreed that it would be best if we treat again prior to the surgery so that he's as healthy as possible for the long journey down.
MJ's cataracts appeared within the first 2 weeks of taking the insurance policy out hence why I am sure he won't be covered, but on the basis that both my own vet and the vet school agreed it was very unlikely to be EC and it wasn't tested for at the time I am hopeful they will pay out on the basis that it ultimately did turn out to be EC. Probably not, but worth a shot. I called the insurance to talk about it after we found it was EC and they did say they didn't know if it would be covered or not but to submit a form anyway. They called me on Thurs to ask for my primary vets contact details and to confirm the date the first cataract was noticed which was 5 working days after I'd resubmitted the form but I've still not had a response on whether it'll be covered or not.

We had a little mini check up at the vey yesterday (my girlie bun had to have surgery last year and was due a mouth check up to make sure everything is still looking good - it is ) so I had MJ weighed as well and he is not gaining any weight but he is maintaining his 2kg (he was 2.2kg before the cataracts).

We now have our appointment for 10.30am on mon 20th July at the RVC :thumb:

Thanks again everyone for all your helpful comments and support
I was talking to someone at work who was asking about his surgery and she asked how much it would cost and made it quite clear she thought I was being stupid for spending so much on a rabbit ("and how many rabbits could you buy for that?"). She's actually a really nice person, just very blunt :| I was blunt back and she agreed with my points. People are so rude sometimes!

 

[Jack's-Jane]

I know, if only it were that easy! We did the deep cleaning on days 21 and 28 last time and I was worried that it was something we'd done/not done that was the reason for him still testing positive, however I asked at the vet school and they've said that its unlikely that is the case and the chances are that its just the infection becoming active again for whatever reason. Good to know its not something we've done but frustrating none the less!



I don't think we'll cancel the surgery if he tests positive a second time, my own vet and the vet school both agreed that it would be best if we treat again prior to the surgery so that he's as healthy as possible for the long journey down.
MJ's cataracts appeared within the first 2 weeks of taking the insurance policy out hence why I am sure he won't be covered, but on the basis that both my own vet and the vet school agreed it was very unlikely to be EC and it wasn't tested for at the time I am hopeful they will pay out on the basis that it ultimately did turn out to be EC. Probably not, but worth a shot. I called the insurance to talk about it after we found it was EC and they did say they didn't know if it would be covered or not but to submit a form anyway. They called me on Thurs to ask for my primary vets contact details and to confirm the date the first cataract was noticed which was 5 working days after I'd resubmitted the form but I've still not had a response on whether it'll be covered or not.

We had a little mini check up at the vey yesterday (my girlie bun had to have surgery last year and was due a mouth check up to make sure everything is still looking good - it is ) so I had MJ weighed as well and he is not gaining any weight but he is maintaining his 2kg (he was 2.2kg before the cataracts).

We now have our appointment for 10.30am on mon 20th July at the RVC :thumb:

Thanks again everyone for all your helpful comments and support
I was talking to someone at work who was asking about his surgery and she asked how much it would cost and made it quite clear she thought I was being stupid for spending so much on a rabbit ("and how many rabbits could you buy for that?"). She's actually a really nice person, just very blunt :| I was blunt back and she agreed with my points. People are so rude sometimes!

Yes, sometimes people open their mouths before engaging their brains. Even if they genuinely do think that it is 'wrong' to spend that much on 'just a Rabbit' they should keep their opinions to themselves.

I really hope that all will go well with the surgery and that the journey goes smoothly too xx

 

[MightyMax]

I know, if only it were that easy! We did the deep cleaning on days 21 and 28 last time and I was worried that it was something we'd done/not done that was the reason for him still testing positive, however I asked at the vet school and they've said that its unlikely that is the case and the chances are that its just the infection becoming active again for whatever reason. Good to know its not something we've done but frustrating none the less!



I don't think we'll cancel the surgery if he tests positive a second time, my own vet and the vet school both agreed that it would be best if we treat again prior to the surgery so that he's as healthy as possible for the long journey down.
MJ's cataracts appeared within the first 2 weeks of taking the insurance policy out hence why I am sure he won't be covered, but on the basis that both my own vet and the vet school agreed it was very unlikely to be EC and it wasn't tested for at the time I am hopeful they will pay out on the basis that it ultimately did turn out to be EC. Probably not, but worth a shot. I called the insurance to talk about it after we found it was EC and they did say they didn't know if it would be covered or not but to submit a form anyway. They called me on Thurs to ask for my primary vets contact details and to confirm the date the first cataract was noticed which was 5 working days after I'd resubmitted the form but I've still not had a response on whether it'll be covered or not.

We had a little mini check up at the vey yesterday (my girlie bun had to have surgery last year and was due a mouth check up to make sure everything is still looking good - it is ) so I had MJ weighed as well and he is not gaining any weight but he is maintaining his 2kg (he was 2.2kg before the cataracts).

We now have our appointment for 10.30am on mon 20th July at the RVC :thumb:

Thanks again everyone for all your helpful comments and support
I was talking to someone at work who was asking about his surgery and she asked how much it would cost and made it quite clear she thought I was being stupid for spending so much on a rabbit ("and how many rabbits could you buy for that?"). She's actually a really nice person, just very blunt :| I was blunt back and she agreed with my points. People are so rude sometimes!

I think you've been conscientious in the extreme :thumb:

Yes people are rude, and with rabbits, one needs a thick skin in all sorts of situations, I find!

 

[iiisecondcreep]

Just a wee update, we finished the second course of panacur on Tuesday. MJ is doing a bit better, hes still pretty quiet but his appetite has improved and we are getting an occasional binky. Will get a blood test early next week.

Also... the vet advised us when he developed the second cataract to take away the little ikea table in their pen, I didn't because its over the litter try but I did take away the carrier that acted as a step up onto it (the main concern was him getting onto it and not being able to get back down). I also recently got them an Ikea bed... at first I wasn't sure how MJ would feel about it, he was a bit wary getting off it at first but actually he likes it and spends lots of time on it. And apparently its given him a bit of a confidence boost because as of a few days ago we keep finding him on the table (the doughnut was already on the table... I put it there when we got the ikea bed because they never use the doughnut) :shock:
I was worried at first that he'd hurt himself jumping down but I've seen him and he does it like a pro. You'd never know he's blind :shock:

 

[MightyMax]

Just a wee update, we finished the second course of panacur on Tuesday. MJ is doing a bit better, hes still pretty quiet but his appetite has improved and we are getting an occasional binky. Will get a blood test early next week.

Also... the vet advised us when he developed the second cataract to take away the little ikea table in their pen, I didn't because its over the litter try but I did take away the carrier that acted as a step up onto it (the main concern was him getting onto it and not being able to get back down). I also recently got them an Ikea bed... at first I wasn't sure how MJ would feel about it, he was a bit wary getting off it at first but actually he likes it and spends lots of time on it. And apparently its given him a bit of a confidence boost because as of a few days ago we keep finding him on the table (the doughnut was already on the table... I put it there when we got the ikea bed because they never use the doughnut) :shock:
I was worried at first that he'd hurt himself jumping down but I've seen him and he does it like a pro. You'd never know he's blind :shock:

That's a lovely photo

I'm glad to hear he's doing a bit better! What a nice story about the Ikea bed. Just goes to show you 'never know' with rabbits, do you?

 

[doorkeeper]

I'm afraid I think you are taking an unecessary risk with that operation. Rabbits cope very well when they lose their sight. We have two completely blind rabbits at the sanctuary plus lots of older rabbits developing cataracts. They get around well and lead full lives; I wouldn't dream of risking their lives with surgery. The hardest time is just as it happens, then they adjust, just like a rabbit with headtilt adjusts. The important thing is to keep every thing in the same place so they can rely on their mental map. My old rabbits still jump up into their hutch from memory. The two totally blind ones can recognize where they are by bumping against their sheds, then they can find the hatch easily. They develop a gentle movement so they don't hurt themselves. Even given unlimited funds and easy access to an experienced vet I wouldn't do it.

 

[iiisecondcreep]

I've not updated this in a while.

The appointment had to be pushed back as the vet was no longer available on July 20th, it is now on Monday (10th aug) at 10.30 in the morning. I had rather hoped that all going well with the consultation the surgery would be the same day but it will be the next day.

The results of the last blood test were inconclusive as the lab hadn't provided the results needed (they only provided results for IGN, what we need to know is IGG which would indicate whether the infection is active or not... I might have the IGG/IGN the wrong way round but what they provided was only the long term exposure result). So I only found this out last Wednesday so we had to take MJ back for another blood test so we could start treatment again before the surgery if the infection was active. So he had the blood test on sat and had the results sent to a different lab that the D1ck vet use, the results were meant to be back within 3-5 days, however they have not come back.

So we are travelling down today, we'll leave in a couple of hours.

I'm afraid I think you are taking an unecessary risk with that operation. Rabbits cope very well when they lose their sight. We have two completely blind rabbits at the sanctuary plus lots of older rabbits developing cataracts. They get around well and lead full lives; I wouldn't dream of risking their lives with surgery. The hardest time is just as it happens, then they adjust, just like a rabbit with headtilt adjusts. The important thing is to keep every thing in the same place so they can rely on their mental map. My old rabbits still jump up into their hutch from memory. The two totally blind ones can recognize where they are by bumping against their sheds, then they can find the hatch easily. They develop a gentle movement so they don't hurt themselves. Even given unlimited funds and easy access to an experienced vet I wouldn't do it.

Thanks for your input, I do appreciate it. My OH and I have discussed this at length, and while MJ is adapting ok and surviving we don't feel his quality of life is as good as it could be. MJ has always been a very confident and active bun who loves to explore. Since losing his eyesight (it has now been 5-6months) he has became very withdrawn. He rarely leaves their pen and when he does he just sits in one spot in the living room and only really moves to return to the pen. He is much less relaxed, before he would flop anywhere, now he just sits in a little ball unless his wifey bun is with him. His appetite is still not great and generally he doesn't eat unless Temperance is next to him. The vet school also observed when he was in for the day that he was noticeably more stressed when Temperance wasn't with him. Unfortunately Temperance much as she loves him also spends a great deal of her time causing havoc and bunstruction in our living room (this has increased dramatically since MJ lost his site, we wonder if its because he no longer plays so she is having to put more effort into entertaining herself) which means he is left sitting alone. We don't feel he is living a full life, or that he is very happy.

 

[parsnipbun]

I'm afraid I think you are taking an unecessary risk with that operation. Rabbits cope very well when they lose their sight. We have two completely blind rabbits at the sanctuary plus lots of older rabbits developing cataracts. They get around well and lead full lives; I wouldn't dream of risking their lives with surgery. The hardest time is just as it happens, then they adjust, just like a rabbit with headtilt adjusts. The important thing is to keep every thing in the same place so they can rely on their mental map. My old rabbits still jump up into their hutch from memory. The two totally blind ones can recognize where they are by bumping against their sheds, then they can find the hatch easily. They develop a gentle movement so they don't hurt themselves. Even given unlimited funds and easy access to an experienced vet I wouldn't do it.

Hi. That adjustment to being blind has been my experience with some rabbits as nwell but not with all. I recently had the same operation for lens replacement done on a bunny that had become blind very quickly with ec related cataracts and had become very very withdrawn and timid. He had the same behavior as the posters bunny. He could not even sense light to dark which many part blind rabbits can do. It was like watching someone with a total blindfold on who has been told they are standing at a cliff edge. After the op he can see light and dark but not detail as the ec had caused damage beyond the lens itself. However it has transformed his life. And he is noe confident to come out and move around again and interact with other buns. The vet school also have a rabbit specialist who came to charlie s operation to be back up to the aneasthetists and thme eye specialist. It is a lens replacement not just a catabract removal.

 

[iiisecondcreep]

So the journey down went ok, and they had all of sunday to chill out.

Our consultation was at 10.30 on Monday, it went very well and our appointment for the surgery was 7am the next day (with the surgery booked for about 8.30am).
The vet also had a look at our other buns eyes and she hes very slight but 'developing' cataracts in both eyes so he has given us a little diagram for records and advised we get her tested for EC when we get home (she has been treated at the same time as MJ but not tested). Hopefully nothing will come of that.

Tuesday morning was nerve wracking, I'd been expecting a call around 9.30/10 but it never came until 11.30. Fortunately it was all good news, his surgery went well and he was awake although very groggy - but still looking around!

We picked them up at 5pm along with a pharmacy of drugs;
Maxitrol (eye drops) 4x a day
Meloxicam 1x a day
Enrofloxican 2x a day
Ranitadine 3x a day
Azopt (eye drops) 1x a day
Panacur 1x a day

We also have a couple of sachets of rescue remedy and the vet advised syringe feeding 5x a day until he's eating his self. He is nibbling hay and herbs but not as much as usual. He's also not really been poo'ing, I called the vet at 5pm re this he actually hadn't wee'd either but then he did a really big wee while I was on the phone. There was no vet available and she said one would call but they haven't. So I've been massaging his tummy, it feels quite bloated and I can feel some bubbles and heard some gurgling as I was massaging, I can't feel any poos (last time our other bun wasn't well and at the emergency vet the vet let me feel her tummy and I could feel the poos), also he was nibbling hay as I was massaging (also he's not tummy pressing, and is mainly laying in a regular loaf or a flop). He's done 3 tiny poo's so fingers crossed for more soon.

Any suggestions on how I can help encourage his tummy to start moving a little better would be greatfully received.


Also, here are before and after shots that my OH took:
MJ by Ed Swift, on Flickr

MJ by Ed Swift, on Flickr

 

[Tracy]

Just catching up with MJ's story. I'm so glad that the surgery went well. I really hope it is a success and he makes a speedy recovery. xx

 

[iiisecondcreep]

Thanks, unfortunately there are still no poo's this morning. Tho he is still nibbling hay. Have called the vet and waiting for a call back.

 

[parsnipbun]

Dont forget that through out can be 6hrs at least between eat and poo (though often quicker).

Is he nibbling hay and actually taking it n or just breaking it up? Watch hard to see if any going in. Try some grass with roots still attached - and pref with some soil - the smell of soil often excites them!

Its a big op but also suddenly having light in his eyes will be a problem - are you keeping him in a darkened area? They are very sensitive to light at first so it can cause pain.

 

[parsnipbun]

Dont forget that through out can be 6hrs at least between eat and poo (though often quicker).

Is he nibbling hay and actually taking it n or just breaking it up? Watch hard to see if any going in. Try some grass with roots still attached - and pref with some soil - the smell of soil often excites them!

Its a big op but also suddenly having light in his eyes will be a problem - are you keeping him in a darkened area? They are very sensitive to light at first so it can cause pain.

good luck!

 

[parsnipbun]

sorry about duplication - at first it wouldnt post to page!

 

[iiisecondcreep]

We were out for some brunch and the vet called back (about 30mins ago), she actually called from the London branch of the vet school and was one of the exotics vets. There is a local vet that she knew of that can do some basic rabbit stuff so she called them, by the time she called back we were back and he had done about 10 poos, tiny and black but better than nothing. Turned out the local vet was fully booked but she agreed anyway that as he has started to pass some poos it would be better to leave him for a few hours rather than potentially upset him again with another journey (especially when he has the long journey home tomorrow). The only other vet in the area is in PaH, she has said if he doesn't continue to improve and we want to take him there to call her first and she will send all his info over and also will talk to the vets on the phone herself if required.

We brought him home a load of grass (+ roots), dandelion, plantain, bramble leaves and a little bit of hawthorn so he ate quite a few leaves and grass so fingers crossed. He's dozing again now.

Yeah we are keeping him in a shaded area, we've put a duvet cover over the pen so its nice and dark.

 

[parsnipbun]

The exotics/rabbit vet at London will be Jo probably - she is really great.

I very much suspect that you will find in a few hours there will be a lovely pile of poos from the grass etc. I am guessing they gave you metaclop/metacam and ranitidine as standard?

 

[iiisecondcreep]

Yes it was Jo

There are now lots of poos! They're not looking too good at the moment but they're there! He is so much better this evening, he is much brighter and moving about and munching all the leaves/grass we give him and still nibbling hay as well. Also when I went in earlier and he had moved out of the corner he's been spending most of his time in, he was at the front of the pen and he looked up at me. Something I had not seen him do in quite some time!

yes we got metacam (well, loxicom which I googled to check is the same thing) and ranitadine.

 

[mini lop1]

I hope there has been some improvement through the day x

 

[parsnipbun]

Thats great! It can take a while for poos to happen after surgery and a strange place . .

 

[MightyMax]

Yes it was Jo

There are now lots of poos! They're not looking too good at the moment but they're there! He is so much better this evening, he is much brighter and moving about and munching all the leaves/grass we give him and still nibbling hay as well. Also when I went in earlier and he had moved out of the corner he's been spending most of his time in, he was at the front of the pen and he looked up at me. Something I had not seen him do in quite some time!

yes we got metacam (well, loxicom which I googled to check is the same thing) and ranitadine.

Lots of Poos! That's what we like to hear