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bonding 2 females back again

F

flickw

New Kit
Hi
I hope someone can help us with this. We have two female rabbits approx 9 months old which were rescue rabbits. Ever since we first had them they have been the best of friends. We had them both spayed last week at the same time hoping this would not break their bond. Due to the fact that they were trying to hump one another at times prior to their op we decided that for the first couple of days / nights to cage them both. They are indoor rabbits and have never been caged since we first brought them home together. When they were both a bit more alert post op we tried putting them in the same cage but there were signs of aggression and we quickly got one out of the cage before any fighting took place. We tried again once more with the same result. Today we tried putting them in the bath together as we had to do this once before as there seemed to be a brief falling out prior to spaying which was indeed fixed by being put in the bath together. However today this did not work and they began to show aggression which we broke up ... we tried a couple of times but in the end they both started going for each other the minute we removed the towels from over them (which we had done to break up the fighting). We only have a medium size carry case and are worried that if we put them both in there they could seriously hurt each other before we could remove one of them. They both love the hoover so this wouldn't be a good way of frightening them.

Has this happened to anyone else before and do you have any advice please ? Everything I have read really revolves around bonding a male and a female who are new to each other .... I cant find anything relating closely to our present situation. We have currently divided the front room into two sections where they cant see each other ... on a night they are both put into their own cages and placed next to one another in our bedroom - where they show slight interest to each other but no more. Prior to the op their usual place to live mostly was under our bed and we had their water, hay, litter tray and food in here too. They really were so close that it is heart breaking to see.

Any advice needed and welcome please. Cheers Flick
 
Are you sure it was fighting or just nipping and fur pulling? If one is recovering slower from the spay the other girl might pick on her because rabbits often bully another sick bun. If they have been humping they probably had dominance issues. Was any blood drawn?

I have 2 bonded unspayed girls and I am getting them spayed soon, the vet told me not to split them afterwards
 
:wave: oh and welcome to RU by the way! when your buns are getting on again you'll have to post some piccies for us!
 
NicolaTervit said:
Are you sure it was fighting or just nipping and fur pulling? If one is recovering slower from the spay the other girl might pick on her because rabbits often bully another sick bun. If they have been humping they probably had dominance issues. Was any blood drawn?

I have 2 bonded unspayed girls and I am getting them spayed soon, the vet told me not to split them afterwards
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Hi thanks for the welcome, we only kept them separate due to the fact they used to hump one another at times before the op and if they were to have done this post op it could have caused severe even fatal damage to either of them.

Well on one occassion when I had to separate them Mia must have thought I was Evie as I herded her back to her half of the front room I had quite a deep scratch on my thumb from her. What happens is they seem to square up to each other's face nose to nose almost and then they circle each other at this point we intervene to prevent any injury as they are only 8 days post op and are not yet fully healed.

I should mention that they had their op 8 days ago, they are approx 9 months of age. We got them from the rescue place where they had been in the same cage with each other and since then have always been together and been best friends. We think they may be sisters but have no way of knowing.

Good luck with your rabbits when you get them done. I'm sure they'll be fine :)
 
flickw said:
Hi thanks for the welcome, we only kept them separate due to the fact they used to hump one another at times before the op and if they were to have done this post op it could have caused severe even fatal damage to either of them.

Well on one occassion when I had to separate them Mia must have thought I was Evie as I herded her back to her half of the front room I had quite a deep scratch on my thumb from her. What happens is they seem to square up to each other's face nose to nose almost and then they circle each other at this point we intervene to prevent any injury as they are only 8 days post op and are not yet fully healed.

I should mention that they had their op 8 days ago, they are approx 9 months of age. We got them from the rescue place where they had been in the same cage with each other and since then have always been together and been best friends. We think they may be sisters but have no way of knowing.

Good luck with your rabbits when you get them done. I'm sure they'll be fine :)
Click to expand...

Does sound like a good idea to keep them separate because of the humping. I think they're probably just bullying each other because they can sense the other is still a bit off colour. I would avoid trying them again for a few more days, because they do remember a fight. Good luck, they'll probably be fine when they are both fully healed x
 
One might be off colour from the op. I would definitely not rebond until they are healed from the operation. Are they both eating and pooing fine?

I would start the bonding from scratch in a neutral area once they have healed.
 
Hi other than fighting each other they are back to normal - eating and pooing are good - we did have to syringe feed Mia at first but both are back to normal
Thanks for the advice - we'll hold on now for a couple more weeks I guess fingers crossed when their hormones settle down they'll remember their friendship :)
 
When you get ready to do this again, it will be important to make everything neutral. You will not be able to put one back in a cage that the other one has been in without giving it a good clean to remove scents. As they are previously free ranging bunnies, I would also bond in a small area and confine them to it until they have settled down again. You could also pop them in a carrier and take them for a drive before bonding.

Theres lots of advice on here about bonding. What part of the country are you from, there might be someone who could help near you?
 
well this afternoon we tried for the first time putting them together. We put them in a brand new pet carrier (as Evie had laid claim to their old one after their op) and carried them around in that (despite some mad looks from people) they cuddled up together and there were no signs of aggression from either of them. We kept them in there for about 10 - 15 mins then Evie did a wee so we then went into the bathroom with them. The bathroom being neutral and neither have been in there before. All seemed to be going well for about 10 mins then Mia groomed Evie and waitied to be groomed in return. Evie wouldn't groom her so then they squared up to fight at this point we covered each in a towel and returned them to their own half of the front room. We have just come back in after a couple of hours out and both were lying close to each other in their own half of the front room (divided by a metal fence type structure).

So we think this is progress - but are we right ? Next time should we let them fight a little to see if this helps develop their heirarchy ? Mia previously was sort of the boss and we think she wont ever accept not being the boss. We're not sure Evie will accept this now she seems to want to be the boss. Is there anything we can do to help this along ?

When should we try again ? Is tomorrow too soon ? Should we repeat the same thing ? Place them in the carrier and then try again in the bathroom ?
 
I think this is progress. Have you got a nic cube type set-up? I used this to rebond our two and it was really helpful to have them together but separated by two panels. I would keep them like this in a small space and try not to ever totally separate them. Swap them over so the scents mix up.

When ours squared up to each other aggressively I would shout No and clap, which usually broke it up, or use a water spray if they actually made contact. You need to set aside a period of a few hours to stand over them when you put them together.

I think it is definitely worth persevering as you know they can live together happily, it just a question of getting them to that stage again.
 
well this afternoon we tried for the first time putting them together. We put them in a brand new pet carrier and carried them around in thatthey cuddled up together and there were no signs of aggression from either of them. Sounds good

We kept them in there for about 10 - 15 mins then Evie did a wee so we then went into the bathroom with them. The bathroom being neutral and neither have been in there before. All seemed to be going well for about 10 mins then Mia groomed Evie and waitied to be groomed in return. Evie wouldn't groom her so then they squared up to fight at this point we covered each in a towel and returned them to their own half of the front room. Bonding is about rabbits sorting out their heirachy and they need to be allowed to sort this out. Little scuffles, chasing, nipping and humping is all part of this process, if they cannot undergo this process bonding becomes delayed. If they do start fighting it is best to pull them apart using a broom, count to 10 slowly and then release them back together ...

So we think this is progress - but are we right ? It is progress to an extent however you will be going back stages having separated them.


Next time should we let them fight a little to see if this helps develop their heirarchy ? Fighting should not be tolerated, although nippign, chasing, humping etc should be.


Mia previously was sort of the boss and we think she wont ever accept not being the boss. We're not sure Evie will accept this now she seems to want to be the boss. Is there anything we can do to help this along ? As with humans we all interact differently with others, you may have someone in the office at work who is dominant with some and less with others, same with rabbits ... nothing you can do apart from allow them to sort out their relationship themselves.


When should we try again ? Anytime provided you have a clear 48 hours where you can constantly supervise them day and night if required without having any prior arrangemenst where you need to leave them.

Is tomorrow too soon ? That is fine if you have the time over the next 48 hours.


Should we repeat the same thing? Place them in the carrier and then try again in the bathroom ? You can, however you will need to neutralise the bathroom using a 50:50 solution of vinegar and water first.
 
If you can afford it, I definitely recommend the nic cube packs. You need to avoid separating the rabbits once they have been put together as otherwise it's a kind of one-step-forwards, two-steps-back situation.

If I had to go out and for the first couple of nights when I was afraid to leave them fully together, the cube system meant I could keep them together but with a mesh panel between them. They are about £9 at Costco or more on Amazon.
 
tintin said:
If you can afford it, I definitely recommend the nic cube packs. You need to avoid separating the rabbits once they have been put together as otherwise it's a kind of one-step-forwards, two-steps-back situation.

If I had to go out and for the first couple of nights when I was afraid to leave them fully together, the cube system meant I could keep them together but with a mesh panel between them. They are about £9 at Costco or more on Amazon.
Click to expand...

when they are separated they are divided only by a folded cage / fence thing which means that they can see each other when they are out - we put their food and water dishes next to each other (divided by fence) and they sniff each other and are friendly enough to each other through the fence. So they are divided but can always see / hear / smell each other when they wish .... they of course have a place each where they can hide (to eat soft poo etc) whenever we place them together in a space bigger than their carrier they start to circle and almost fight before we separate them. When in their carrier Evie grooms Mia - we feel Mia will only settle for being the boss and Evie must accept this. We have tried so many places now but they always seem to almost fight before we split them. Is this space they are in when split up too large ? Should they not have anywhere to hide ? They were free range house rabbits prior to the op but should we keep them in cages next to each other ? Would it help if they had less space ?
 
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