Are these herbs in particular ok for buns? Medicinal herbs tight chests

[chelle]

Hi everyone!

Not been about for a while! Just popping in whilst I can:wave:

Ive been having a look at herbs that are good for relieving tight chests...Ive come across some plants that are medicinal and Im sure that some might be on the OK list for bunnies.....

So with this in mind...i thought it might help buns who struggle with tight chests / asthma...and especially the heat at the moment...

Could anyone shed any light on these: OR add more plants?

Borage Borago officinalis
Comfrey Symphytum
Couch grass Agropyron repens
Elecampane Inula helenium ( http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail146.php)
Fennel Foeniculum vulgare (http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail24.php)
Hyssop Hyssopus officinalis ( http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail132.php)
Lobelia Lobelia inflata (http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail246.php)

Interestingly - I once had a really bad chest infection...after 3 different anti-biotics....I went back...again...and there was a locum doctor...who said he would not wrtie me a prescription...but to go to a natural health shop and buy a cough mixture made from Ivy.....the health shop didnt have that - but recommended Lobelia..in a liquid form...I took this and after about 3/4 days - my chest was almost cleared! It was amazing...since then Ive found the Lpobelia in pill form...Im not sure if its as good as it was in liquid form...but it really really worked. It loosened my chest and I was able to cough up the phlem and breath alot easier. After 3 months of meds and a natural option worked.


Plants we know buns can have that might help too:

Basil:
http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail4.php

Coltsfoot
http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail96.php

So...you can see Ive just read them from the list as below
http://www.anniesremedy.com/herb_detail132.php

I know some of the oils are used...obviously Im looking at just the natural plant state...

I think this might be really usefull to kow if they are ok for buns...if they might even be helpful with easing respiratory conditions for buns?

Hopefully all you Garden health pro's will give me some light!

Many thanks in advance!:wave:

 

[tonibun]

Bump!

 

[thumps_]

:wave: Hi Chelle,
It's a bit of a difficult question to answer.

1st. bunnies' lungs are tiny in comparison to their bodies, unlike us who don't notice if we've only got 1 lung. They've hardly any reserve if there is a disease in the lungs, so I'd go for orthodox medicine every time as the mainstay of treatment. You also need to be sure that the "asthma"= (wheeze from the lungs) in bunnies isn't caused by fluid in the lungs from heart failure. We can also get the same thing called "Cardiac asthma" but the whole treatment is totally different from the "allergic type asthma", which I think is very rare in bunnies.
If you can hear bunny making strange noises when they breath, eat & groom it's almost certain to be coming from the upper airways = snuffles.

2nd In this heat bunnies don't sweat - they lose heat through their big ears & then start to breath more quickly to cool down by evaporating water mainly from the upper airways & also lungs. This makes any secretions thicker & more difficult to get rid of, lie around the small passages narrowing them & producing squeaks & rattles, especially in the upper airways of snuffles bunnies.
Bathing the ears in tepid (not cold) water helps a lot but is not feasable in the day for workers!
A salt water nebuliser regularly morning evening & night is helping Benjie tremendously, both to keep cool cos the mist is cool as it emerges from the nebuliser & keeps the secretions from drying out & getting stuck.
In fact I also benefit from being nebulised with Benjie!

Most lobelia species aren't safe for bunnies.
Hyssop is a strong purgative in humans.

If you want to treat disease in buns with herbs, I'd go to a herbalist vet.
These plants can be very potent & just as dangerous as orthodox pills. A good herbalist has as much training as an orthodox doctor. I've every respect for them.

 

[parsnipbun]

I would agree with Thumps -

although I do 'use' some plant foods - willow twigs/bark for example as a helpful mild pain relief - or mallow leaves to encourage producing more mucus - I ALWAYS use them as a 'supplement' to vet medicine and also always only offer the plant in its natural fresh grown form to the bunny who will choose to eat or not eat it.

I would never give the much more potent oils, pills etc etc -

I would also not give human herbal meds to a rabbit.

the other thing to think about is that although a plant is listed as good for' something - often it is only a very specific part of the plant, or a very specific time of year that the plant contains the relevant active ingredient - something I know Thumps would also agree with from her use of hawthorn.

 

[chelle]

Thanks guys...and yes - I agree....perhaps a specialised herbalist would be an idea to see (if of course money grew on tree's! lol) to enable us to supplement our buns diets with natural plants to help with certain ailments or just to boost the immune systems.

Thanks you for replying...an interesting view onthings for sure and of course I wouldnt not give orthodox meds...but was thinking as more of a short itmerm relief for snuffles or "tight chests" as such.:?

Could I ask - hawthorn - what do you mean?

Is there a specififc time of the year its best hervested then?

I was about to go foraging soon!

 

[thumps_]

Thanks guys...and yes - I agree....perhaps a specialised herbalist would be an idea to see (if of course money grew on tree's! lol) to enable us to supplement our buns diets with natural plants to help with certain ailments or just to boost the immune systems.

Thanks you for replying...an interesting view onthings for sure and of course I wouldnt not give orthodox meds...but was thinking as more of a short itmerm relief for snuffles or "tight chests" as such.:?

Could I ask - hawthorn - what do you mean?

Is there a specififc time of the year its best hervested then?

I was about to go foraging soon!

The leaves are always fine whatever time of year as are the less thorney twigs. The buds & flowers contain quite a potent drug which slows down the heart rate. Obviously we don't want to slow down a normal heart! I also add not to give the berries because the seeds inside are very hard & could easily break a bunny tooth.
I think that parsnip bun was illustrating that different parts of a plant can have markedly different properties.

As for stage of growth, I've no idea why, but Thumper refused the leaves from blackthorn until after the sloes had ripened & developed a whiteish bloom - only 6 weeks to gather them before leaf fall.
Benjie is the same - they're not ready yet!

 

[Geoff's people]

Regarding Blackthorn,
At the moment my guys are refusing twigs picked from the main shrub, BUT will happily nom the new seedlings/suckers springing up around a meter from the main hedges

Funny things these buns:lol:

 

[thumps_]

That's fascinating about the blackthorn, because your buns are doing exactly what the wildies do.
In the warren foraging areas there's never so much as a new leaf at ground level & everything within a buns reach is bare.

I should add to be very careful with it when gathering it. The new growth I harvest in Autumn doesn't have thorns on it. The thorns aren't only big & very sharp, but if you get stabbed by them the tip usually breaks off. Unlike any other foreign material, these thorns work in deeper & cause intense fibrosis. It's not something you can afford to ignore, but sadly very few dr.s know about it. Again, that's very different from the leaves, but I noticed that Thumper aways bit the dry leaves so as to discard the petiole. (Leaf stem)

I just can't find out much about it. Even a herbalist vet didn't know that there was a time when it was maximally effective medicinally.:shock: He told me it was a gut prokinetic, astringent, & mildly antiseptic - not very important. The rabbits are "saying" something very different!
For Thumper the effects were miraculous. Although Marie could feel his caecum we have a confirmatory ultrasound.
After 10 months of no caecal filling & a thick wall, as soon as the blackthorn reached this stage of growth, Thumper guzzled them. Within a month his caecum started to work again & the wall felt normal. :shock:
He had a bacterial infection -TB of the GI tract M. avium homini suis. It was different from the TB wildies get. They have a lot of organisms & little fibrosis but Thumper had few organisms with a lot of fibrosis.

Then there's Benjie with his generalised pasteurellosis. Totally different type of bacterium in a totally different place. In common, he gets gut slow down when his nose is blocked. Either he can't breath to eat (most likely cos he's hungry but picks) or he gets pain from blocked sinuses. He found the box of dried blackthorn leaves within hours of arrival - jumped straight in & cured his uneaten caecs within 2 days!

It's been scary for me to watch Benjie adopt the same diet as Thumper. My suspicion is that in common both have gut "throughput" problems for different reasons. In Benjie's case being an obligate nose breather with nasal block it must be difficult to eat & breath at the same time. (Supported by the fact he won't eat SS unless I break them into bite sized pieces.) Both have chosen the same diet, a bit high on the nutrient side for a wildie, but not enough to cause dysbiosis, & good fibre intake to keep things moving.
(Sorry I've got carried away)

 

[Geoff's people]

I shall share a handy tip regarding blackthorn and it's nasty thorns

If you do get stuck by one (yes I know exactly what you mean by the tips snapping off) make a strong brew of blackthorn shoots/bark and use as a poultice. It is very drawing and a case of like curing like:thumb:

Worked every time for me

 

[thumps_]

Thanks Geoffs People.
We really need to get that info as a foraging "sticky" & preferably on the net, cos doctors can't deal with it.
I'd like to pm you.