Alert: In view of Tree's situation, take photos of your bunnies w/ today's newspaper

[Jaypot]

The only way to get proof that rabbits have been dumped on a rescue or anyone for that matter, is to call the police and get an incident report - that way you have the number for it.
Only other way would be to take bun or buns to the vet immediately but that is not always possible

I think from now on if anyone gets a bun or buns dumped on their property, for their own peace of mind, call the police and get the incident number.

I've got REW's but none of them are NZ - I honestly didn't know about the incident 'cos I don't normally read the papers, watch the news or see the news on the internet. If someone had given me a NZ or dumped one or some, then I wouldn't have had the foggiest idea about it:shock:

Police get on my nerves, but use them for the incident numbers.

 

[Denny]

you posted this in two sections Jason:lol::lol::lol: I'll double post my post:lol::lol:

Ironically enough, I was in the vets on Monday and was discussing micro chipping with my vet, not because of this latest incident but because I was concerned that if I lost my bunnies or they were stolen whilst I was on holiday, most rescues only allow 7 days before they rehome which does not allow a person who has gone away for 2 or 3 weeks chance to find their buns when they return so micro chipping would be the only proof of ownership so I have decided to have it done

On this note though Jason, most people have uploaded pictures of thier buns on thier pc which should be proof enough, even if they have deleted them and deleted the recycle box, your pc hard drive still stores everything for the experts to search for and what dates are on those documents or websites they have visited, its why so many sex offenders have their pc taken by police un-beknown to them that despite deleting things, it can still be tracked

The biggest problem I forsee with this latest incident is that, any white bun being adopted or taken in from here on in is going to be in dispute whether if that be tomorrow or in 12 months time as being as they are looking for 129 rabbits so, taking a picture or micro chipping from todays date is not really going to prove anything eccept for the bun was possibly acquired after these buns were stolen

The ironic thing about all of this is, if they are looking for NZ whites then in my eyes they need an expert on board as I replied to Carys topic when she had hers bonded into a group of 6 and they did not look like NZW's to me, they were far to small to be anything but a NZW so what chance does any other white bun have out there at the moment

There is one other point of evidence that might be proof though. I have had one of my buns head x rayed so anyone who has maybe had the same due to tooth problems or root issues might be able to prove ownership through x rays:?

 

[BinkyBun]

Denny I was just going to make a similar post about photos. I keep all my digital rabbit photos backedup on cds listed by month and year. They individually hold digital information such as date and time. This should prove they are your bunnies hopefully to the police. Of course if your bunnies are REWs it would prob help to get them microchipped.

 

[Sooz]

I would think veterinary records and a statement from the treating vet would be sufficient to prove ownership, wouldn't it?

 

[BinkyBun]

I just thought of something really hideous. All the rabbits that they owned will have probably been injected with somekind of horrendous chemical to test. Therefore they will be checking all rabbits for this particular chemical for proof.

I would demand to know what kind of tests they are doing on your rabbits. As if they are not those you don't want them being put at risk. I just don't trust that Huntington place.

 

[SarahP]

Definitely a thought-provoking subject. For me, I got my bunnies from a work colleague who I am no longer in contact with. I have no idea of their origins, and nothing was done in writing.

I am quite sure there would never be any issues with mine, but it does make you wonder when bunnies change hands so much.

 

[raine]

I think the bunnies were going to go to Huntingdon and were at the breeders before they were shipped to there and subjected to "testing". Having looked at what is happening at Huntingdon which I had no idea about, I have decided to become more active in protesting against its existence.

 

[janice]

I just thought of something really hideous. All the rabbits that they owned will have probably been injected with somekind of horrendous chemical to test. Therefore they will be checking all rabbits for this particular chemical for proof.

I would demand to know what kind of tests they are doing on your rabbits. As if they are not those you don't want them being put at risk. I just don't trust that Huntington place.

From my own knowledge which is limited on this matter. Like others I believe that the 120 odd rabbits which were taken were from a breeder and not from a laboratory. These rabbits will be 'safe' rabbits and be fit for consumption / experimentation / domestic use. These should not be a hazard.

Once rabbits or other animals are taken to a laboratory they then have to be individually identified and cannot be rehomed, I believe that these are usually PTS when there months or years of service have ended.

 

[Suzanne]

Once rabbits or other animals are taken to a laboratory they then have to be individually identified and cannot be rehomed, I believe that these are usually PTS when there months or years of service have ended.

So sad

 

[Denny]

Denny I was just going to make a similar post about photos. I keep all my digital rabbit photos backedup on cds listed by month and year. They individually hold digital information such as date and time. This should prove they are your bunnies hopefully to the police. Of course if your bunnies are REWs it would prob help to get them microchipped.

me too Romy, my old camera did the date and time on the photo's too and you have the back up dates on the pc's to know when they were uploaded

Sadly though, I think we all have buns that look alike regardless of whether they are REW's or BIB's Its funny though because when I was chatting with my vet about micro chipping, she said that they are thinking of promoting it more with rabbits as many owners are realising the benefits of having it done with cats and dogs for fear they get lost or get them pinched at least it does prove ownership. I cannot even count on both hands the amount of times my mother got asked if she would breed Ben her yorkie, they were horrified to hear she had had him neutered but she got to the point that she feared him being pinched so she had him chipped

 

[SarahP]

Once rabbits or other animals are taken to a laboratory they then have to be individually identified and cannot be rehomed, I believe that these are usually PTS when there months or years of service have ended.

Yes, I think all the guinea pigs from that lab that closed were either PTS or sold on.

 

[Happy Hopping]

Okay ladies, since I am not a lawyer, I'll try to explain the "proofing" part of any future incidents like this one:

1) Your digital camera photos taken, comes w/ a EXIF digital stamp, which cannot be altered, and this is good. But as you all know, the date on your camera is set by you, and you alter it any date you want. You can set a date back to 2002 or set it to 2010, so the date stamp on your photo is meaningless in the eye of the law

2) Your job is to prove that you are the owner of such and such bunny for any future incident like this, and as I said before, almost any lawyer will tell you to use the front cover of your newspaper as Part of the Photo, as noone can really edit a photo on newspaper, so the actual date of the newspaper serves as proof in the eye of the law, that you did own this bunny at the date of the newspaper printed and forward

 

[Denny]

Okay ladies, since I am not a lawyer, I'll try to explain the "proofing" part of any future incidents like this one:

1) Your digital camera photos taken, comes w/ a EXIF digital stamp, which cannot be altered, and this is good. But as you all know, the date on your camera is set by you, and you alter it any date you want. You can set a date back to 2002 or set it to 2010, so the date stamp on your photo is meaningless in the eye of the law

2) Your job is to prove that you are the owner of such and such bunny for any future incident like this, and as I said before, almost any lawyer will tell you to use the front cover of your newspaper as Part of the Photo, as noone can really edit a photo on newspaper, so the actual date of the newspaper serves as proof in the eye of the law, that you did own this bunny at the date of the newspaper printed and forward

no digital camera is submissable in a court of law, they tend to only except developed images I agree but data from the heart of a pc cannot be altered or changed Jason, that is why the police tend to take personal items such as pc's, phones etc, so an uploaded image on to a pc will be stored with time and date regardless of whether or not you think you have deleted it from the pc all together.

Still not convinced with the news paper photo as being enough proof, I have 2 news papers from the year 2001 so could use those:lol::lol::lol: but if the authorities were doing their job properly, they would go in search of my vet details and wonder why they did not go to the vets at all for 3 or 4 years:lol::lol::lol: It doesn't prove it either way as to how long I have had them for or who's to say, my first bun was a black nethie, I take a picture of her in front of todays paper, she dies 4 years later, then I go and get another black nethie which is the twin of the one I have lost, how will authorities be able to prove that it is a different bun to the one taken in the photo with the newspapper?

It would also be hard with say, 2 people with black buns took a photo of their buns in front of a news paper, dates on the news papers were a year apart, 1 black bun found and advertised looking for the owner, how do you prove who owns the bun when they are both black, same size, sex and weight and remembering that it is extremely hard to tell a rabbits age if it is unknown, who owns the bun???

The only way I see as proving who has the legal ownership of the animal is by micro chipping

 

[janice]

Still not convinced with the news paper photo as being enough proof, I have 2 news papers from the year 2001 so could use those:lol::lol::lol: but if the authorities were doing their job properly, they would go in search of my vet details and wonder why they did not go to the vets at all for 3 or 4 years:lol::lol::lol: It doesn't prove it either way as to how long I have had them for or who's to say, my first bun was a black nethie, I take a picture of her in front of todays paper, she dies 4 years later, then I go and get another black nethie which is the twin of the one I have lost, how will authorities be able to prove that it is a different bun to the one taken in the photo with the newspapper?

I am also not convinced on this theory of taking pictures next to a paper. If I took a picture of a rabbit next to a paper of 2005, that does not mean that the rabbit was about in 2005 it just means that the rabbit was about between the date of the paper being issued and todays date. To me this will not prove anything, if I download the picture on to a computer and then onto a website the computer can be checked to see when it was downloaded, the date on the paper will be irrelevent. If I take pictures of my rabbits with todays paper it just means that when ever that picture was viewed that the pictures were taken sometime after the date of the newspaper but before the actual date in real life. :?

The vast majority of people in the UK will never have a problem like this. I certainly would recomend keeping photos of their rabbits, the same as I would suggest them having pictures of any valuables they have.

 

[Rowan]

I'm not convinced either. Anyone could some old newspapers saved from years ago for interesting stories or whatever, and then take a picture of a rabbit next to them now. It doens't prove the rabbit was there at that date.

On a similer idea, I've heard of people posting documents back to themselves as a cheap form of copyright when writing stories etc. If you kept the envelope unopened it used to serve as proof, as it could be opened it court and the postmark on the envelope would prove the document was yours at that date. However, this isn't considered proof anymore as you could send an unsealed envelope back to yourself, and then put a document in.

 

[BinkyBun]

Once rabbits or other animals are taken to a laboratory they then have to be individually identified and cannot be rehomed, I believe that these are usually PTS when there months or years of service have ended.

 

[janice]

Unfortunately this is the case, these rabbits I am sure from the thread we were given have come from the farm who breeds for the laboratories and not from the laboratory itself. For that reason there is no need for these to be PTS.

 

[toffee]

I could have newspaper from 2 weeks ago and take a picture of it with my buns today, it doesn't prove that I had my buns 2 weeks ago.

Whenever I adopt I print a picture of the rabbit off the website where I saw it advertised (i.e. Rabbit Rehome) and keep it with my adoption certificate. Both the web page and the certificate has the details of the rabbit.

But I don't suppose there is a foolproof way to prove it.

 

[Happy Hopping]

In that case then Janice is right. Only microchip can legi. proof the bunny is yours. But police is at your door, they don't have the tool to extract the chip, then they still have to take the bunny away from you.

What about this: suppose you take the photo of a bunny next to the actual boardcast of BBC evening news, would that be enough proof? Because the news event is current.

For e.g., if BBC airing the story of Joe Lewis lost half of his billions the other day, that event is clearly current (Sunday's news), by taking the photo at that moment, would that be enough to proof that is the date you own the bunny?

I mean, it costs nothing to take a digital photo and copied to your flash drive.

 

[rabshan]

Alert.in View Of Tree,s Situation?

raine:wave:SHAC was set up to try to close down HLS (huntingdon life sciences) this is the company (apologies if i am breaking forum rules by useing their name) that the BUAV film (for which they won an award) called its a dog,s life was madeit chartered the life of beagles who were being experimented on from day one until their death,s:evil:after they were repeatedly injected with toxins to see what effect they would have on their poor bodies:evil:I have this film and it,s very sad (i defy anyone who cares about animals to watch it and not cry) so if the bunnies were heading for that awful place then god bless those who got them out
The police are cracking down hard on ARA,s mainly because of HLS who refuse to stop using animal testing :evil::evil:
I HATE vivesection so i hope any bunnies freed from that breeder will remain FREE
I also think that if you are a rescue then it is almost impossible to check that every bunny you take in is a genuine caseif the police are going to chase up every rescue looking for "hot" cross bunnies then they will be very busy:lol:
I recently watched a clip of the League against cruel sports who had a very sick stag dumped on their land by hunt supporters who then called the media and made out that they were keeping sick deer:evil:they stood around jeering while the stag was shot and carted away:evil:how sick is that:evil: