Advice needed on a bumpy re-bonding road

[Zhar_Ptitca]

Hello fellow bunny lovers! I have a question and I hope someone has if not solution then a couple of tips for me.

Here is a bit of backstory: three years ago I got two rabbits - Mira and Minnie, sisters from the same nest. Very quickly Mira got spayed and there was peace in the cage. I could not complain. A year ago, while working at the rabbit sanctuary I fell in love with one particular rabbit - it was a nest of half-wild rabbits that was hand raised but some mistakes were made and rabbits got too attached to humans, rendering them unsuitable to be released into the wild. The owner saw me fawning over them and asked if I wated to take one boy that had not been claimed by anyone. After thinking about it I agreed, with every intention of returning him if I notice he was unhappy. But Max wasn't. he enjoyed my house, ejoyed jumpig, binkied a lot. In fact, the bonding went miraculously easy and while Mira did chaise him around once in a while, he formed tight connection to her. Minnie was always a bit of a passive bun - she did her own stuff and was The Boss. Nobody was allowed to hump her and if they did, she had only but to throw a glance at them and the culprit would evaporate from the scene.

But this March Mira had unexpectedly and tragically passed away, leaving Max and Minnie alone. At first I though they will seek comfort with each other but that did not happen - both of them drifted even further apart and did not socialise much. Minnie was starting to get visibly depressed so I sucked it up and went on a bunny dating - the sanctuary had a rabbit I though would be a nice match to the pair. During the 'probe-bonding' it all went wonderful, Max was a bit twitchy, Minnie exibited healthy interest. I took them home and continued bonding there. After three days they were friends and shared the cage and I was super happy.

And then, three months later, the bond broke. I don't know what happened but Max started to behave agressively towards Minnie, while with Mila he was in love and cuddled up to her non-stop and would not leave her side. He was jumping, fighting and plucking her. He never showed such behaviour before, not during any of the bondings, not afterwards.Minnie was getting extremely skittish and twitchy as soon as anyone was getting close to her butt. I thought: "Hey, maybe it is because I have to un-spayed females." And so I spayed Minnie. Re-bonded them, or at least tried. With the help of Rescue Remedy (mostly for Minnie, who after spaying suddenly became nervous and unsure rabbit) there is relative calmness in the cage nowadays, I sometimes see Max and Minnie flopping near each other after having their food eaten.

BUT! I cannot let them out all together. Before that, if I or my boyfriend was home - the door to the cage would be completely open and bunnies could go in or out as they please. Now, as soon as Max and Minnie are together outside the cage he lunges agressively onto her (never saw any actual wounds otherwise they would ot be together in the cage right now) and rolls her all over the ground, obviously trying to fight. Minnie, of course, refuses and tries to run away. After many talks with the owner of the sanctuary ad my vet we came to a conclusion that perhaps since he is a half-wild bunny by blood, his instincts and behavioural patterns are somewhat different. He is also only a year and a half old, so bunny puberty is still calling, so to say. But he is so in love with Mila and just about tolerates Minnie, I don't get it. Especially because Minnie was longer with him then Mila.

I guess my questions are:
a) what are your thoughts about all of this
b) what can I do to maybe teach them to be friends outside as well. I am a bit unsure how to approach this, since I am scared that Max will spoil it all and I will have to get back to square one. I definitely don't want to separate them because now they are tolerating each other, while Minnie and Mila are even showing some signs of an actual attachment forming - Mila cuddles up to Minnie a lot and they lick each other. Max does not participate (he used to, when Mira was alive)

Thank you for reading this wall of text and thank you for any input ^^

 

[Tamsin]

I take it max is neutered? You're right wild bunnies can be slower to mature but if he's been neutered that should curb the hormones anyway.

It's a strange situation, as usually the cage is territory and you'd expect any aggression shown outside the cage to be shown in it too. How big is the cage? I'm wondering if one option might be to extend gradually and part of the problem could be that he's exerting his dominance over the outside space each time he gets new access to it.

In the mean time I'd be tempted to exercise them separately - obviously as a wild bun he'll need a lot of exercise/stimulation as increase that might help reduce any frustration he's feeling.

 

[Zhar_Ptitca]

Thank you for your reply!

Yes, Max is neutered. He was neutered as soon as there was something to neuter, let us put it this way. In fact, I think neutering him early on never gave him the concept of sexual dominance. He never humped anyone. Never. He exibits dominance by fighting and nipping but never humping. His character did change as well, which is why I blame puberty, haha - he became more 'wild' and unpredictable.

I do not know the measurements of the cage, it is a pet store one, not self built. But it is one of the biggest you can get in the petstore and before they all had free access to my living room to stretch out whenever they felt like it (but strangely enough they rarely did. Most often they came out for a couple of hours in the evening and be back in cage again soon enough) The cage still has space for all three to sit in their own corners and mind their own business (Mila is 1,6 kg, Max is 1.3 kg and Minnie is 1,3 kg)

As to territorial behaviour in the cage - he exibits it sometimes. Especially when I take Minnie out or put him him in. In both cases he immediately starts chasing her unless I distract all of them with food. Food agression is very rare to almost non-existent. When food is there everyone is a friend. I had this cage since I got him, when Mira was still around. He never exibited any territorial behaviour before. It all started when I got a new doe. And then it got much better. And then it got 'meh' again.

As to exercising them separately I already do that Each bunny gets some time outside. I take Minnie out, that later on Mila joins her. Then couple of hours later Minnie goes back into the cage and Max comes out. He spends outside till it is time to feed them. (he, of course, being the little prince he is, wants to have access to the cage and spends equal amount of time yanking the bars as he spends binkying and loafing around)

What I was thinking is maybe to use a bunny pen and slowly make a space bigger to allow them to come in and out when they want to. The only possible problem I see is Minnie getting so freaked out she will not return to the cage anymore. She is a bit of a solitary rabbit in general and with Max chasing her she seeks the furthest corners away and might sit there for hours. She has a fragile bond formed with Mila so I do not want to break it off as well.

In October I am going away for 1,5 weeks and rabbits will go back to sanctuary. A little shock therapy might help them to bond, I hope.

 

[Tamsin]

Yes, I think the pen would be worth ago. It might be that once you've extended the area you could remove the cage completely (or the wire off the top) if she does get kicked out and instead have a mix of boxes and tunnels. Adding more hiding places might help her confidence generally - make sure any boxes have two exits. I wondering if some of the aggression when you switch them over could be being frustrated about being in when he wants out and vis versa. There is a thing called referred aggression that can happen when you have separate groups and one rabbit gets so worked up want to attack the other group he can't get to that he actually attacks his companions. I wonder if it could be similar he's getting worked up and taking it out on her. It would explain why they are happy together sometimes and he's being nasty others. It can be tough to work out their motivations though!

I've a single male wild rabbit and he sleeps in a cardboard box rather than a cage, and then there is stairgate to keep him confined to the room it's in unless supervised (he's a bit of a terror for chewing/exploring where he shouldn't).

Just be careful with the food that you don't accidentally reward the behave you don't want. So for example if he starts being aggressive and then you provide food - he might repeat the behaviour to get food next time (bunny are pretty smart ) giving food is fine, just distract him before he shows any of the unwanted behaviour not in the middle of it.

 

[Zhar_Ptitca]

So the effect I should hope for by removing the top is Max perceiving the cage and the new open territory as one and stopping harrassing Minnie? I do have to admit that I find it difficult to understand where his agression comes from. That it is territorial - yes. But also it seems frustration about something (perhaps the limited exit from the cage), sometimes he just seems very short-tempered and nips at Minnie just because she stood around. I have to mention that sometimes Minnie gets so worked up that she basically pisses Max off with being so skittish. Several times I've observed him trying to sniff and lick her but she started thumping as soon as he came near and escaped. After several attempts he lost patience and epic chasing happened.

Awesome that you have a wild-bun too! How old is he? Max is estimated to be one year and two months or so and he is still young and seems very busy with maturing I, however, do not want to give him free-roaming in my living room, because while he is not much of a chewer in general (carpet and plants aside, I did cable proof the livingroom and kitchen) but he loves to jump everywhere. Last time I found him on a cupboard, all the while I just sat there watching TV, haha. I love to observe him and notice how much smarter he is then domesticated buns. At least my buns. Mila and Minnie are sweet but not on the smart side of things.

You are absolutely right about wrong rewarding. I usually make sure that I start rattling with food way before I put them in the cage. Bunnies get agitated about the food and see nothing else anymore and thus indirect rewarding of agression is not happening. Same with dried carrot yummies - they only get them when they behave.

 

[Tamsin]

Yes, that would be my hope, that a bigger area means more space for enrichment to keep him occupied/reduce frustration, that you've removed the cage (with it's one exit/entrance that might be the trigger) and that you can add things to hide/block sight line so any little spats don't escalate.

Scamp turned 8 in May! I think he spends slightly more time relaxing that when he was 18 months but he's still super fast, jumps, climbs and binkies like a youngster. It's amazing how agile they are compared to a domestic.

 

[Zhar_Ptitca]

Aww, a senior bun! Now I just have to wait seven and a half years for Max to calm down a bit. Hooboy Observing his behaviour and the behaviour of domesticated rabbits is amazing. I really enjoy it.

The other thing that me/owner of the sanctuary/vet thought of was that being a wildbun most likely means his communication and values are different of house bunnies. Sure, dominance is importamt to everyone but I think to wildbuns it is extra important. And Minnie never accepts his challenges. I am pretty sure if she whooped his butt this whole situation would be resolved. The only thing that puzzles me is why he decided to start now. Puberty? The first time I bonded Min, Max and Mira the hierarchy was established almost immediately (and not in Max's favour) Now it is still not in Max's favour but he is a step higher then before.

I tried extending the pen today. Took the top of the cage off, made a fence, threw some 'sight-breakers'... It was a disaster. Minnie flipped out so much she thumped every time she saw ears picking out from anywhere. So I put the cage back together, gave them time-out in a small pen where they surprisingly do not fight and now it is quiet again. Minnie is in the toilet, where she feels safest and Max is near her on the ground.

So I just... Do not know.:shock:

 

[Tamsin]

It's tough tell, particularly with him being handraised, it could as much be an issue of him not having the social input from an adult rabbit on how to behave as him being a wild rabbit.

Although hierarchy is important, in wild rabbits it's usually two separate ones, so the males have theirs and the females theirs. It would be much more logical for your two girls to have the issue than him!

It sounds like Minnie is quite nervous so you might need to make the change more gradual. Pop the pen up and let her learn new hiding places but keep the cage longer. At the moment the cage is probably her safe place (where she runs back to if frightened) so if it vanishes and everything changes then would explain the panic.

 

[Zhar_Ptitca]

Right now I will give them some days off. Let them calm down and be relatively friendly again. I still think I might just wait till I am back from vacation and while they are all shook up from new things try the pen trick. Perhaps in such order of things the progression might go smoother.

You've been very helpful, thank you ^^

PS: Minnie is indeed a very nevrvous and very careful rabbit. I was hoping spaying would help but actually it seemed to make it worse. it is like her character did a 360 degree flip. She used to be extrememly calm before.