Bladder flushing..

[Graciee]

No UTI, and nothing grew from the culture... Bloods are fine... The receptionist told me we just need to get her to lose weight according to my vet.. I asked how considering her diet.. And that my vet didn't know either.. Receptionist just said we are monitoring her (not sure how we are doing that tbh) and to take her for a walk... I pointed out she was a rabbit.. Although the receptionist knows that... I have no words.. [emoji849]

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[Zoobec]

No UTI, and nothing grew from the culture... Bloods are fine... The receptionist told me we just need to get her to lose weight according to my vet.. I asked how considering her diet.. And that my vet didn't know either.. Receptionist just said we are monitoring her (not sure how we are doing that tbh) and to take her for a walk... I pointed out she was a rabbit.. Although the receptionist knows that... I have no words.. [emoji849]

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Oh dear :lol:

 

[Omi]

Whilst I'm aware that being overweight, whether rabbit or human, can cause some health issues, I've not heard that it could be the cause of what has been identified with Clementine i.e. sludge and inflammation.

I think what I would do is to book a consultation with William without Clementine to discuss how to manage her problems. Whilst they have not identified a UTI I think I would discuss the merits of having a long course of abx.

How is she now in herself?

Regarding the weight management, it would appear that all you can do is to increase her exercise and of course there are ways to enourage her to move more. It would be helpful to discuss this with William as well.

 

[Graciee]

Whilst I'm aware that being overweight, whether rabbit or human, can cause some health issues, I've not heard that it could be the cause of what has been identified with Clementine i.e. sludge and inflammation.

I think what I would do is to book a consultation with William without Clementine to discuss how to manage her problems. Whilst they have not identified a UTI I think I would discuss the merits of having a long course of abx.

How is she now in herself?

Regarding the weight management, it would appear that all you can do is to increase her exercise and of course there are ways to enourage her to move more. It would be helpful to discuss this with William as well.

William has retired so that's not an option, I may have to find a different vet tbh. I think weight is definitely a problem but Idk what to do about it, she just doesn't move much I'm really broken up about the whole thing tbh, and I think we need to see a specialist.

She's absolutely fine in herself, I stopped the tramadol, she hated it and doesn't seem to need it. She's her normal happy self tbh with you. It's all a mess :/

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[Omi]

I think it would be worth considering a specialist. Are you too far away from Trinity Vets in Maidstone?

Having a poorly rabbit is stressful enough, but when you have a job, a house project and the rest of your life as well, it must seem very daunting.

Does she move completely normally after her op? I'm wondering if this could be why she doesn't move very much.

 

[Graciee]

I think it would be worth considering a specialist. Are you too far away from Trinity Vets in Maidstone?

Having a poorly rabbit is stressful enough, but when you have a job, a house project and the rest of your life as well, it must seem very daunting.

Does she move completely normally after her op? I'm wondering if this could be why she doesn't move very much.

Maidstone is that Kent...? If so it's not on my doorstep but could easily drive over

Yeaaa that's basically my life rn

Yea after her knee ops she moves perfectly, completely normally and when she's on painkillers she's no different - I actually don't think she's in pain - however a big issue with her has always been moving and litter training even.. Because she was basically in a cage only large enough for her to lay down for well a while..months.. Before and after the op she almost became conditioned to eat, drink, pee and poop all on the spot, because she had no choice, she's litter trained now but sometimes she still just poops where she's sitting. She spends most of her time lounged out somewhere just like she did in her cage.. After the op she went crazy for space did loads of binkies etc but still most the time laid down in a spot.. She still is like this now, the only time she really moves is to the litter tray or runs over to me when I call her name for food (but she's not like a dog, how many times could you call a rabbit over, where they don't get food, and they keep running over? [emoji38][emoji38] They're far too smart for that [emoji38])


So yea getting her moving is an issue, she was actually fine wearing a harness when she couldn't move (I was living in a flat so I used to spend time in the flats gardens with her on a harness, just for her to get a change of scenery really, she'd spend the whole time eating grass [emoji38]) but now she can move.. And she's become her not just a baby bun.. Idk if that'd be a good idea and I hate harnesses for rabbits tbh I think they're kinda dangerous I only used one for safety and she'd be right next to me etc and ofc she couldn't hop so hurting her back wasn't an option, now tho Idk if I'd want to.

I can't really put hay high up either (all she's fed now she's eating again) because her floor is hay too.

Nightmare really

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[Omi]

Maidstone is that Kent...? If so it's not on my doorstep but could easily drive over

Yeaaa that's basically my life rn

Yea after her knee ops she moves perfectly, completely normally and when she's on painkillers she's no different - I actually don't think she's in pain - however a big issue with her has always been moving and litter training even.. Because she was basically in a cage only large enough for her to lay down for well a while..months.. Before and after the op she almost became conditioned to eat, drink, pee and poop all on the spot, because she had no choice, she's litter trained now but sometimes she still just poops where she's sitting. She spends most of her time lounged out somewhere just like she did in her cage.. After the op she went crazy for space did loads of binkies etc but still most the time laid down in a spot.. She still is like this now, the only time she really moves is to the litter tray or runs over to me when I call her name for food (but she's not like a dog, how many times could you call a rabbit over, where they don't get food, and they keep running over? [emoji38][emoji38] They're far too smart for that [emoji38])


So yea getting her moving is an issue, she was actually fine wearing a harness when she couldn't move (I was living in a flat so I used to spend time in the flats gardens with her on a harness, just for her to get a change of scenery really, she'd spend the whole time eating grass [emoji38]) but now she can move.. And she's become her not just a baby bun.. Idk if that'd be a good idea and I hate harnesses for rabbits tbh I think they're kinda dangerous I only used one for safety and she'd be right next to me etc and ofc she couldn't hop so hurting her back wasn't an option, now tho Idk if I'd want to.

I can't really put hay high up either (all she's fed now she's eating again) because her floor is hay too.

Nightmare really

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Mark Rowland at Trinity Vets in Maidstone has an excellent reputation for rabbits. I've never consulted with him, as he's not that close to me, but it's the specialist vet, who my vet consults with. Some other forum members have used him too.

 

[Graciee]

Mark Rowland at Trinity Vets in Maidstone has an excellent reputation for rabbits. I've never consulted with him, as he's not that close to me, but it's the specialist vet, who my vet consults with. Some other forum members have used him too.

Ah thanks Omi I think I'll see if we can get an appointment or even get my vet to talk to him.. Altho my vet can talk to William so idek!

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[Jack's-Jane]

Sorry this will be a 'bullet point' post, got rather a lot going on here atm

My unqualified thoughts on what may be going on

1 Clementine had major orthopedic surgery whilst her bones were still growing. Osteoarthritis at a later stage being a real possibility

2 Osteoarthritis= discomfort= reluctance to be very active = propensity to weight gain

3 Inactivity can lead to a build up of bladder sludge= bladder sludge irritates bladder wall= inflammation and possible infection

4 Failure to fully empty bladder when urinating if it is uncomfortable to do so (because of arthritic pain making adopting the wee position uncomfortable and as sludge starts to accumulate passing wee becomes more sore). This all adding to further accumulation of sludge and worsening bladder inflammation

5 Spaying reduces metabolic rate, all neutered Rabbits can have a propensity to gain weight. Add to that the fact that most Rexes are greedy and you have the perfect storm !!


I would suggest a Rabbit savvy Vet initially focuses on whether there is significant arthritic problems going on as a result of her major surgery and if so prescribes a multifaceted approach to treatment- NSAIDs, Physiotherapy, Acupuncture, Laser Therapy.

Clementine may then be able to be more active .

Is she a free range Rabbit ?

Not sure what her exact diet is and if she tends to eat her share and a fair bit of Atticus's too ?

Will be back later.........................

ETA- I Recommend Mark Rowland too. He saved the lives of 2 of my previous Rabbits. He's a member of RU but it's many years since he had time to post

http://trinityvetcentre.com/

 

[Graciee]

Sorry this will be a 'bullet point' post, got rather a lot going on here atm

My unqualified thoughts on what may be going on

1 Clementine had major orthopedic surgery whilst her bones were still growing. Osteoarthritis at a later stage being a real possibility

2 Osteoarthritis= discomfort= reluctance to be very active = propensity to weight gain

3 Inactivity can lead to a build up of bladder sludge= bladder sludge irritates bladder wall= inflammation and possible infection

4 Failure to fully empty bladder when urinating if it is uncomfortable to do so (because of arthritic pain making adopting the wee position uncomfortable and as sludge starts to accumulate passing wee becomes more sore). This all adding to further accumulation of sludge and worsening bladder inflammation

5 Spaying reduces metabolic rate, all neutered Rabbits can have a propensity to gain weight. Add to that the fact that most Rexes are greedy and you have the perfect storm !!


I would suggest a Rabbit savvy Vet initially focuses on whether there is significant arthritic problems going on as a result of her major surgery and if so prescribes a multifaceted approach to treatment- NSAIDs, Physiotherapy, Acupuncture, Laser Therapy.

Clementine may then be able to be more active .

Is she a free range Rabbit ?

Not sure what her exact diet is and if she tends to eat her share and a fair bit of Atticus's too ?

Will be back later.........................

ETA- I Recommend Mark Rowland too. He saved the lives of 2 of my previous Rabbits. He's a member of RU but it's many years since he had time to post

http://trinityvetcentre.com/

Blimey, I’m sorry, I was convinced I’d replied to this… that’s very worrying.. :lol:

Tbh I think what you said is probably spot on. Although I will say if she’s in pain she doesn’t show it..and painkillers make no difference to her movement.. Which I’d have thought they would have if she wasn’t moving because she was in pain… idk though that’s just me assuming. I think we are at another flush is needed stage tbh, so I’ve got an appointment for an xray and flush if needed soon so I’ll talk to the vet about arthritis again I think.

Free range - yes, she has a lot of the house, she has her cage as her base which tbh she spend most of her time in there or in front of the fridge or on the mat in the kitchen (those are her three spots where she lays) that’s about it though… there’s no running around like the others…

Now she’s eating again (after last flush she wasn’t) she only eats hay. Although I’ve been growing oat grass for her, so she’s been eating that too a little. She can’t steal Atticus’ because they aren’t together anymore and when they were together, he can literally only eat hay because of the megacolon saga so yea it’s only really hay.. :lol: and no alfalfa - I just feed timothyhay.co.uk timothy hay to them because even their oat hay upsets Atticus sometimes.

With no traffic that place is 50 minutes drive, so as a flush may be needed, I think ima talk to my vet again and get that done if it's needed, if not I’ma try get an appointment with him I think I just wanna get the flush first if it's needed because that just has to happen. Don't want her unable to pee But i'm thinking a second opinion may be needed.. how can they work out if an animal has arthritis?

 

[Graciee]

Clementine is having her bladder flushed again

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[Omi]

Poor girlie Sending lots of vibes for a speedy recovery.

 

[Graciee]

Poor girlie Sending lots of vibes for a speedy recovery.

Thanks Omi was so sad leaving her, she absolutely hates it there I really hope she pulls through but Idk what the solution is here tbh... The xray showed loads of sludge again... She can't go on like this, once a month having that done but Idk what to do about it either she's gained a tiny bit of weight too (I assume because she's been having two of those oxbow urinary support treats every day) but again they are meant to help so I don't wanna stop them

There must be some kinda solution here where we can manage it.. My vets talking about me expressing Clementines bladder every day with her standing up to manually clear the sludge... [emoji849] She said she'll show me but blimey Idk if I'm gunna be any good at that tbh (plus Clementine won't allow the vet to actually do this [emoji38])

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[Zoobec]

sending lots of vibes for her, and hugs to you xx

 

[Graciee]

sending lots of vibes for her, and hugs to you xx

Thanks Zoobec xx

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[Jack's-Jane]

Thanks Omi was so sad leaving her, she absolutely hates it there I really hope she pulls through but Idk what the solution is here tbh... The xray showed loads of sludge again... She can't go on like this, once a month having that done but Idk what to do about it either she's gained a tiny bit of weight too (I assume because she's been having two of those oxbow urinary support treats every day) but again they are meant to help so I don't wanna stop them

There must be some kinda solution here where we can manage it.. My vets talking about me expressing Clementines bladder every day with her standing up to manually clear the sludge... [emoji849] She said she'll show me but blimey Idk if I'm gunna be any good at that tbh (plus Clementine won't allow the vet to actually do this [emoji38])

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This is what I have had to do with a few Rabbits with chronic issues with bladder sludge, usually as a result of a physical mobility problem. The treatment also included fluid therapy (fluids given SQ) and sometimes a diuretic (Frusemide). The manual bladder flushing was not always needed daily for all of the affected Rabbits, some just needed it 2-3 times a week.

How mobile is Clementine these days ?

 

[Graciee]

This is what I have had to do with a few Rabbits with chronic issues with bladder sludge, usually as a result of a physical mobility problem. The treatment also included fluid therapy (fluids given SQ) and sometimes a diuretic (Frusemide). The manual bladder flushing was not always needed daily for all of the affected Rabbits, some just needed it 2-3 times a week.

How mobile is Clementine these days ?

Is it tricky? Could I mess it up? Clementine has yet to let anyone who knows what they're doing, do it... Although she is different with me.. She seems to allow me to do things... But still! [emoji849] Not feeling great about that...

She's having a catheter in the ear later when she comes home, I spoke to the vet about SQ fluids, she said we can do, but she'll have catheter in anyway today which can be in for 3 days so we'll use that while she has it then see.

Honestly she lays down a lot.. But when she's up and active she does move around normal and looks fine, yesterday I had her free range in the garden (very scary [emoji38]) and she was running after me for baby parsley and stuff from the greenhouse - if you didn't know you'd have said she was a normal bunny tbh. She's just super lazy the rest of the time Idk why, painkillers make no difference and she seems super happy and content at home. It's such a pain I saw today's xray though, so so much sludge, bright white on the xray too, like so clear

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[Jack's-Jane]

Is it tricky? Could I mess it up? Clementine has yet to let anyone who knows what they're doing, do it... Although she is different with me.. She seems to allow me to do things... But still! [emoji849] Not feeling great about that...

She's having a catheter in the ear later when she comes home, I spoke to the vet about SQ fluids, she said we can do, but she'll have catheter in anyway today which can be in for 3 days so we'll use that while she has it then see.

Honestly she lays down a lot.. But when she's up and active she does move around normal and looks fine, yesterday I had her free range in the garden (very scary [emoji38]) and she was running after me for baby parsley and stuff from the greenhouse - if you didn't know you'd have said she was a normal bunny tbh. She's just super lazy the rest of the time Idk why, painkillers make no difference and she seems super happy and content at home. It's such a pain I saw today's xray though, so so much sludge, bright white on the xray too, like so clear

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Have they Xrayed the legs she had the surgery on ? Also, have they done a chest Xray ?

Re the manual bladder expression. It does require extreme caution as the bladder is delicate and can easily rupture. I would make sure your Vet gives you A LOT of guidance as to how to go about it and also to know when not to attempt it- ie when the bladder is empty and/or palpating it elicits obvious signs of pain ('guarding'/straining/excessive trying to get away etc). Bladder expression in itself is not difficult, but it is really important that the Vet explains what you are feeling for and when not to even attempt it. It is often advisable to give a NSAID about an hour before doing a manual bladder expression, so the anti-inflammatory/analgesic effect kicks in before the procedure is carried out.

 

[loobers25]

Gracie I'm really sorry to hear that she needs a bladder flush. I hope you can find a way which it can be managed. Sending hugs for both of you xx

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[Graciee]

I'm really upset tbh


She's home and doing okay, very sleepy etc... We are doing SQ fluids at home because they couldn't even get a catheter in her ears apparently there's so many bumps from old ones etc.

I asked the vet nurse what the plan was going forward, and said that it's not great having to flush once a month and she said yea Idk really, then mentioned quality of life :/ so idek anymore. I can't believe it's come to this.. And I think ima need a second opinion for sure... Obviously I understand what she meant and I agree, but there's no suggestions on how to manage it.. And no ideas, and idek if there's any medications we could try.. Seems like they have no answers :/

I'm really really upset and I can't believe it's come to this. It's just like the legs all over again, she's absolutely fine and happy, it's just something important is fundamentally not working :/

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